What's so "Progressive" About Progressive Metal?

[TerraMGP]

Since when is a dictionary definition an objective fact?

Hilarious and utter fail by your own premise.

because the acceptance by a culture or society thing is ridiculous

Take it up with the experts in the field of anthropology.

Besides, it's the only functional and non-subjective definition of what art is. Dictionary definitions work great for pretend engineers who don't have a creative neuronal substrate in their central nervous system, but not for people who are actually interested in art and culture.

And with that, I'm done humoring the trolling requests of a 13 year old on the internet. I hope you've had as much fun as I had, child.

You won't give any criteria so I have no other definitions to go on. if you would like to specify REAL objective criteria, criteria that are measurable, then maybe we will see if it stacks up.

Still after all this if you want to stop because you have no answer for me thats fine. I just hope that you realize that your trying to rationalize an objective stance or a "FACT" on something subjective. No school in the world teaches that and if they do they need to be shut down because thats not how it works. 2+2=4 is objective, its fact. "The flower is beautiful" is opinion, not fact. You are trying to argue that "The flower is beautiful" is fact.

I hope you have enjoyed proving your lack of debate skills or understanding of the subject you profess to study.

 

[Silvertongue]

Power metal? Really? *facepalm*

I have to say that condemning an entire sub-genre as bad is not a good way to demonstrate your intelligence. Not all power metal is pure, unadulterated Gamma Ray cheese. But I've also noticed that a lot of bands which were formally power-metal have drifted away from the genre...examples: Sonata Arctica, Edguy, Firewind. It's probably because it catches more flak than any other type of music under the metal umbrella. People should be able to enjoy what they want to enjoy without catching hell for it.

EDIT: I agree with the post above me. The first step toward having a flame-free forum is realizing the difference between the objective and the subjective. There would be no trolls, no flame-wars, no need for bans...but that's my SUBJECTIVE OPINION. *wink*

 

[Axiis]

Okay. I'll be one of the first to actually go back on topic. I progressive band I like is Coheed and Cambria. MY opinion of progressive is something that actually tells some kind of a narritive inside the song, which they do seeing as how the whole concept of the band are based off of the graphic novel series that the frontman ( Claudio Sanchez ) Writes himself called 'The Armory Wars'.

Thats what I find to be progressive, it's good music though at th same time you're getting a story told to you.

Back off topic; Music IS art. Period. I read a post above by Eggo. And he's right. Music links everyone together in SOME way shape or form. That's art. All genres of music are art in their own way.

Myself I'm a big Metalcore fan. ( All That Remains, Atreyu, Killswitch Engage... etc. ) Yet I still won't bash anything like Rap or any of that because I don't care for it. It's low to go on bashing different music.

 

[Marbas]

What exactly is art music? I'm just saying that metal is art, i'm not saying it's art music, whatever the hell that is.

Here are some great examples of art music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4TbrgIdm0E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tGA6bpscj8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU23LqQ6LY4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EXzfpS6WK4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPQU9Egoe2Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZpNazAVts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9pOq8u6-bA

And even though these songs use instruments often associated with art music, they are still examples of popular music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IrWyZ0KZuk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zSONEoJv18

I'm having trouble spotting the commonality here! Assume I have never taken a class on sociology or art appreciation. Help please? Could you maybe cite some papers or books I could read? I would appreciate it!

Provide me with the objective data which says this is art.

IIRC that urinal was considered art because of the way it was presented. By presenting it as art it challenged and stretched the initial boundaries of what could be considered art and what couldn't. Thus it communicated a philosophical point on the nature of art.

All those pieces were created with process, not consumption, in mind and are/were culturally signified as art music. Like it or not, the concept of process and cultural signification is about as objective as it gets in the social sciences.

That seems wanting for details. I don't think I understand it. What was this process exactly? The creation of art? If so, what parts of that process were they created in mind of? What were they attempting to do to or with that process that makes it different from pop artists? I mean, surely pop artists experiment with the process of art creation to find what works best for them.

 

[Not Good]

I honestly don't get it. The two songs that I sampled from YouTube were Dream Theater's "Forsaken" and Opeth's "Porcelian Heart". Both to me, by name and by the song itself, sound like so many love songs from so many bands. Well I'm not entirely sure about the theme but both had a very ,shall we say, angsty feel to it.

Well, to be frank, your selection choices were poor.

What did I say about my selection? Read again.

 

[Not Good]

This has turned into quite the debate.

As such, I'm hoping everyone keeps the insults to themselves and remain civil in all matters.

Enjoy.

 

[Joos]

This has turned into quite the debate.

As such, I'm hoping everyone keeps the insults to themselves and remain civil in all matters.

Enjoy.

I am enjoying this thread, it is quite interesting to read everyone's opinions.

Not Good, I don't think I can MAKE you like progressive metal by posting youtube snips or arguing you are wrong because of this and that. Hell, I don't like most forms of prog metal since they have a tendency to sacrifice listening quality for complexity.

That is why I really like Opeth (I would call my self a fan of opeth, not an opeth fanboi) because they do a lot of really mixed stuff, but in 90% of the case, they don't sacrifice the musicality of a piece to make a song more complicated. There is always the balance of harmony and pretentious techniques.

When I look at the bands you listed that you like, I think I can find a few Opeth songs that you will like.

Masters apprentice
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=SmxNl6oYmn0
A pretty straight forwardDeath Metal song

Demon of the Fall
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=yrBrH5PZtcc&feature=related
Death and Prog meets

Baying of the Hounds
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IOqBDHjzOV8&feature=related
A mix of death and clear vocals in this proggish death metal song.

Ghosts of Perdition
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=KBWLMwU6ZQ4
Death Metal meets prog rock.

The Moor
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=XijodYFQbrY
From one of their earlier albums. Well, I like it.

Hope this gives you a little more footing to diss Opeth. ;-) Ie, you can piss of fanboi's more skilfully!

 

[dangerousdave_42]

So if any of you can find me a Progressive metal band that doesn't sound like a bunch of pussies that bought distortion pedals, and their most recent released songs don't fail at being progressive and do succeed at getting them monies, notify me.

Well I rather enjoy Ayreon and as far as progressive metal goes I think they are a far better example then Dream theater will ever be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIqRsl8Vm-Q&feature=related

 

[Mr. Squirrel]

So if any of you can find me a Progressive metal band that doesn't sound like a bunch of pussies that bought distortion pedals, and their most recent released songs don't fail at being progressive and do succeed at getting them monies, notify me.

Well I rather enjoy Ayreon and as far as progressive metal goes I think they are a far better example then Dream theater will ever be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIqRsl8Vm-Q&feature=related

Ayreon is great, I only started listening to them a while ago, but I almost listen to nothing else now. And on almost every album sings one of my favorite singers.

 

[Jak The Great]

I honestly don't get it. The two songs that I sampled from YouTube were Dream Theater's "Forsaken" and Opeth's "Porcelian Heart". Both to me, by name and by the song itself, sound like so many love songs from so many bands. Well I'm not entirely sure about the theme but both had a very ,shall we say, angsty feel to it.

Well, to be frank, your selection choices were poor.

What did I say about my selection? Read again.

You're criticizing based upon your selections, therefore my argument is valid until you listen to something that more truly defines them.

EDIT: I'm not trying to say that you're stupid for not liking Dream Theater, I can see how people wouldn't; it's just trying to see what a band really is based upon the stuff that's commercially popular really isn't their true sound.

Case and point for me was Nicleback I bought Silver Side Up for 'how you remind me' but as I listened to the album, I fell in love with Never Again and Just for, two songs that wouldn't be very radio friendly. Granted their subsequent albums suck because they made that soft rocky sound their mantra, those two songs still remain among my favorites.... If only they had stuck to that...