What's the appeal of turn based combat?

[carpenter20m]

I'll admit it. While I have played most of the western RPGs (starting from Baldur's Gate, mind you) out there, I've never played a JRPG.

I once downloaded for Steam the demo of The Last Remnant. I liked it, the setting, the graphics, everything. Until I reached the first combat. All of a sudden, I went to a different area, some companions that weren't with me appeared, a screen with lots of choices came in front of me, I clicked around, people started doing their thing without me doing anything, next thing I knew, I had won the battle.

I would love to get into JRPGs, the stories, the characters could be compelling, but I just can't stand turn based combat. What is its point? The only reason I can think of is to have the characters do fancy moves, which you couldn't if you were controlling your character and if your enemy is hitting you while you're doing somersaults.

So, all of you JRPG fans, explain to me why I should get into JRPGs.

PS: This is not to start an argument. I have a friend trying to make me get into The Final Fantasy Series (no, I haven't played any of the games - I think I have played a very early one on a cousin's PC when I was young, but guess why I didn't finish it), but I can't stand the thought of having to go through a massive game with turn based combat. Does it at least grow on you?

PPS: Turn based combat was the reason I gave up on Temple of Elemental Evil after 1 hour of gameplay.

 

[delet]

Well, it's strategy and really just another point of view. If you don't enjoy turn based combat, I have two suggestions for you.

1: Star Ocean(4 is the newest one.) This series is brilliant and it's not turn based. You can run around the battlefield, control a character directly, press buttons to attack people, everything.

2: Lost Odyssey. This game managed to pull me into the whole Turn Based Combat thing because of that simple little feature of pressing RT at the right time. It's amazing how well this worked.

 

[Chase Yojimbo]

you have to realize that the JRPG's, including WRPG's are nothing compared to back then, such as Final Fantasy 6, back when it was really really good. Today however, WRPG are roughly Bethesda's and Biowares line of work, and they are pretty damn good at it. JRPGs, such as SQUEENIX's trophy crap, FF XIII or Last Remnant, were really just a random throw in the dark, they don't know what they are doing anymore, and frankly the JRPG fan base is dying slowly, while WRPG is growing...

Thats my thoughts though, everyones boat floats differently.

Tales of Vesperia was good though, not turn base either...

 

[Jack and Calumon]

Well you need to pick one that does Turn Based Combat well... Temple of Elemental Evil is not a good example, and Last Remnant is just 100% confusing. Final Fantasy does it well, depending on which one you go for, I recommend 7 or 8 (which as Roman Numerals is VII and VIII) both of which are on the PSN now. I'm sure that VII might hit Steam as VII was on PC but don't hold your breath.

Calumon: Digimon Battle has Turn Based combat... and it's good! ^^

 

[TheRealGoochman]

personally I am not a fan of it, but at the same time I love me some JRPGs. I like Star Ocean's and Tales of Vesperia (love some WWIIesqe bang bang JRPG squadbased action) style better when it comes to JRPG fightage.

but when it comes down to it would rather have a captivating story with awesome graphics and a combat system that works instead of a combat system that doesnt feel right (and in some cases turn based just feels right)

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

for strategy: Lets you think. Tends to be more strategic than Real Time. Seriously, play Fire Emblem, and then come back and tell me how an RTS is more strategic than that.

For RPGs: Let's you plan. Like, "Do I buff this guy, or heal him?", without putting pressure on the player.

 

[Iwata]

In an RPG, I don't see the appeal.

In a strategy game, it makes battles more like a chess match than an actual battle. Depending on the game, this can be a good or a bad thing.

 

[Cap'n Haddock]

The only turn based game I can stand besides chess is Pokemon. then again Pokemon counts as a JRPG.

 

[reg42]

It's more strategy than the standard "click-'n-kick" method in western RPG's, which is the main reason I enjoy it.

 

[Meggiepants]

Most people have already stated that it's a strategy thing. You get several characters who each have their own moves. You have to figure out the best way to counteract each enemy. Some enemies need magic to kill them, others might require physical attacks.

These strategies can get even more complex. In a game like Persona 3, they type of weapon you have makes a difference. Piercing weapons need to be used against some enemies, and smashing weapons against others. The less strategy involved the easier it is for the game to use the active battle system where there is no pausing. But if you have a game with a huge amount of strategy, they need to pause the game so you can choose your move.

It's just two different kinds of gameplay is all. If you like strategy type games you'll probably like turn based a little better. But if you are into action games, you probably won't like turn based all that much.

 

[Kagim]

The problem with JRPG's lately is that they keep trying to make a balance between real time and turn based... It doesn't seem to be working very well.

I watched my brother in law play FFXIII a few weeks ago and except for boss battles all he did was smash the x button. He actually had to leave the room for a moment during a fight and instead of pausing he just kept smashing the x button while doing whatever he was doing till he won which is kinda sad.

A Good example of Turn based Combat done right would honestly be FFX. It was turn based but you felt like you had full control. You could switch party members in the middle of fights, even change there gear. There was more strategy to it. Deciding when to use which characters, which abilities during certain bosses. Developing strategies on the fly and mixing it up whenever necessary. You ultimately had a wide array of characters with different unique properties. Weapons weren't just blunt stat boosters but gave you different elemental attacks and resistances requiring you to choose how you wanted the battle to flow. Instead of the waiting bar the game built a dynamic turn order based on character agility and the abilities you ordered them to us. To me it is honestly a crowning achievement in the Final Fantasy series (Yes, i liked the storyline and the characters. The voice acting for Yuna could have used some serious work though. Yes, i also loved blitzball. One of the best non necessary minigames.)

Unfortunately with FFXII system of letting the game play with itself and FFXIII apparently only requires you to pay attention during bosses i feel kinda shook up about it. I remember when WRPG's were considered inferior in general. Now WRPG have ME, Dragon Age and Fallout 3 While JRPG's seem to be growing stagnant. KH's is the only series i have respect for from square since FFX-2(Which was atrocious sorry)and i sometimes wonder if thats Disney Interactive's doing not Squares.

So seriously, if your not having fun with JRPG's lately and Kingdom Hearts isn't your cup of tea you might be running out of options. WRPG's seem to be taking the field.

 

[carpenter20m]

That's a very informative discussion. I was afraid someone would come and start bashing one genre or the other but no one did.

I can understand strategy. It's a good argument...maybe even the helplessness of waiting for your opponent's move.

Random Bobcat, the games you mentioned aren't exactly RPGs. I had Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights (the second one; peculiarly enough, I just started playing the first one), even Drakensang in mind (along with the older one: Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale). Most of these are turn based under the hood and require lots of strategy in a battle.

Example: Mind Flayers in BG2. Normal buffing wouldn't help you. Normal summons either. You needed Chaotic Commands and Undead or elemental summons.

Fallout 3 and Mass Effect, yes, not much strategy required there. Just common sense in building your character (though Oblivion had a pretty nice leveling system).

Um, I kind of missed my point here: Oh, there it is: The WRPGs I like do require strategy (impossible battles in Dragon Age become easy with good strategies). But I can still dig the turn-based combat/strategy relation.

PS: Lots of suggestions for games. Keep them coming (If FF VII ever comes on Steam, I am getting it).

PPS: Ever since the Game Gear, I am a PC gamer, so no consoles please (I don't hate them, I just like PCs, though Natal may turn me around).

 

[Hellion25]

Storyline wise I find JRPGs generally much more compelling than WRPGs. It may be the Eastern flavour that holds an appeal, though having said that many JRPGs attempt to ape Western culture, with similarly Western characters and the like.

I also agree with the strategic element of turn based combat. You sometimes have to plan entire battles in your head, and poor preperation or a misplaced move can spell disaster. It is less immediate than real time combat, but just as engrossing for me.

As for game recommendations, you're going to be hard pressed to find really good JRPGs on the PC, unless you're going to emulate. Even games that have a PC release, such as FFVII and FFVIII are buggy and extremely hard to find these days.

 

[Thaius]

Mainly, it's the strategy. Obviously hand-eye coordination and twitch reflexes aren't the point in a turn-based system, but rather it's a matter of using the right character to perform the right actions on the right enemy/ally. But beyond battle itself, a lot of it is also the customization of characters outside of battle.

The Materia system in Final Fantasy VII is my personal favorite example of this. Basically, each weapon and armor has a certain amount of materia slots: places where you can insert magic spheres that grant various magical abilities (it makes sense in the story). By placing Fire, for instance, on someone you allow them to use fire spells. However, there were also support materia, and joined slots where you could join two materia together. For instance, you could pair Cure and All, thus allowing that character to use Cure on all allies at once. You could also do things like pairing Final Attack (performs paired materia as a final action when a character dies) with Phoenix (a summon that raises and restores the HP of all allies), making yourself pretty much invincible for the limited amount of times it could be used. Once I figured out that I could place Cover (ally takes damage in allies' place a certain percentage of the time) with Counter-Attack (self-explanatory) and pair the Counter-Attack with 4x Cut (makes every attack go 4 times rather than 1), every battle just satisfied me with my use of strategy.

Kind of long, sorry, but the point is that the strategic customization of your characters outside of battle paired with the strategic use of said customization inside of battle is just awesome. Really though, gameplay in JRPGs is secondary to story: that's the great part. Play Final Fantasy VI or VII, or Chrono Trigger: you'll see.

 

[ActionDan]

I honestly have no idea. Whenever I see friends play them, It just looks like one huge clusterfuck.

 

[LeonLethality]

The problem with JRPG's lately is that they keep trying to make a balance between real time and turn based... It doesn't seem to be working very well.

I found Eternal Sonata did a really good job at this. your turns went by in real time when you had to make fast decisions so it made for a very interesting battle system.

And also to your misconception of XII the game hardly plays itself you will find yourself taking control of the characters a lot because the gambits are never perfect. they just really help with the tedious lesser enemies, while the tougher ones/swarms/bosses have to be dealt with yourself.

 

[Aric Rainwater]

Strategy. Pure, unadulterated, STRATEGY!