What's the appeal with first-person gameplay?

[Benpasko]

Skyrim...

You'll get a warning straight away if you don't explain your answer. Edit, edit as fast as you can.

The question was "What's the appeal with first-person gameplay?" which I answered. If I would've said "enough said" would it have made a difference? I've seen many small comments with nothing in the way of explanations to no consequence, so I don't see a reason to get a warning for that.

Except you didn't answer anything at all. Skyrim is a game that has an optional first person mode. Okay? How does that pertain to the topic at all?

OT: Immersion is the main reason. A gunfight feels more chaotic, the world feels more alive in first person. It puts you in the action, rather than controlling a character in the game. I'm playing a game called White Day right now, and it's incredibly scary but wouldn't work at all if it wasn't in third-person. The limited field of view has you looking behind yourself a lot to make sure something isn't sneaking up on you.

 

[Someone Depressing]

In games where the camera is awful, particuarly horror games such as Siren: Blood Curse (I play that only in 1st person) it not only helps general playability, but adds to the whole horror thing.

As for RPGs, people don't seem to understand what that means: It's a ROLE PLAYING GAME, you take the role of a character and develop them through your choices. Not, +1 Strength because you kicked this bucket.

As for 1st person shooters... no idea, ask a Call of Duty fan. Just make sure they don't try to give you a Glasgow Smile.

 

[loc978]

I'm having a hard time with the "realism, immersion" angle in this thread. I tend to find the first-person perspective restrictive in most modern games. It kinda worked back when we had precise 1:1 mouse control and a standard 90 degree FOV for our floating camera of a protagonist, but now that we've got all these fancy character models that have to interact with worlds via a physics engine (sometimes even having to walk with virtual legs instead of just float around), 90 degrees of vision is considerably less acceptable. Add on that a lot of games give you as low as 60 (and that actual human peripheral vision stretches toward 180 degrees, making "combat tunnel vision" something closer to 120)... and first-person perspective just doesn't work for me anymore (well, unless I just fire up a game from 1999 or something).

...and first-person has never worked for melee combat. Swinging a melee weapon generally puts its arc outside of a 90-degree FOV for over half of the swing. If the weapon is only hitting where a cursor is pointing, that's not melee combat, it's point-blank shooting.

All of that said, I'm spoiled in modern games. In a game of any complexity that requires you to aim with a crosshair, platform and interact with the environment in a puzzle-solving sort of way, I require the precision of a first-person perspective for some actions and the spatial awareness of a third-person perspective for others... switchable with the click of a scroll wheel. Any game that attempts platforming, shooting, looting and physics puzzles that locks you into one perspective or the other is insufficient... which is why I skipped Dishonored.

 

[Jetsetneo]

You mean aside from game play mechanics that are unique to it, immersion in potential story, and perspective?

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

I'm one of those people who thinks survival horror works better in first person. I can't imagine something like Amnesia being scarier because I can see who I'm controlling. If anything the limited view made it even tenser and put me on edge just that little bit more.

 

[Nazulu]

No, I think you just got confused and lost my original point which is that it is simple for people see and an easy thing to aim for. I never wandered off just talking about genre, I'm simply stating that 'simple' is what helps make something popular. It goes for entertainment in general so I don't see why it can't be applied to games. And what I was trying to get at is that the popular perspective can carry on to other franchises, which is what Miss. G mentioned with the new JRPG's (as well as other franchises we know that have converted as well).

Why do I feel hostility from you? Did I offend you? Do you usually make assumptions? Fucking hell. I don't feel like I need to be treated like an idiot. Can I make a mistake without people jumping on everything I say? I wasn't looking for an argument. What if I didn't mention 'Yahtzee', would I still be trying to be edgy and witty with a stupid phrase? I seriously doubt you would have even thought of it?

The statement that it is just point and click to kill people implies the sole focus on a genre (in the context: First person arcade shooters). And you yourself said:

We're clearly talking about first person shooters.

You brought genre into a discussion about a perspective with a simple phrase that lacks any explanation or further examination. I provided several examples where your statement just falls flat on its ass (be it the lack of killing, challenging gameplay, mechanical depth or the combination of those).

And if you would've written the phrase without mentioning Yahtzee it would be still the same:

You wanted to be edgy and witty with a stupid phrase from someone who used it not as an universal truth but a comedic phrase that crumbles when you apply a little thought to it.

I don't care if you weren't looking for an argument. You used a phrase to dismiss a buttload of games as "simple play style" without examining possible merits or even any examples where it might not be the case. You were wrong.

No I'd say you're the one who wants to be edgy and irritating. Also, I don't believe you at all, it's definitely because I mentioned Yahtzee. You just lost it when you saw that for some reason.

When I said "first person shooters" I was meant to say "first person perspective games" but that came out instead probably because I was tired, but for some reason you decide to hang off that.

I wasn't trying to 'dismiss games' and I don't care that you provided some popular titles that were different than the usual shooter because I wasn't specifically talking about that. And I wasn't just talking about 'click to kill' exactly, with a little imagination we could expand easily to other things, like say making portals and throwing grenades or talking to other characters or whatever. I was just talking about that sole mechanic of pointing where to achieve your goal, that it's easy for people to get their head around. Why the hell do I have to bring up different examples? Because I forgot your favourite game? Shit.

I don't even know what you're on about anymore, I was just throwing out a suggestion that I've explained now and you keep trying to pick a fight with me instead.

 

[Nazulu]

sole mechanic of pointing where to achieve your goal

*sigh* And this describes the vast majority of games. It has nothing to do with perspective used. And we are back to square one.

You know, you haven't described anything. You just keep ragging on about 'majority of games' that are supposedly easy to get into without bringing up anything. And even then it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Lets talk about something different though. Why the hell did you get aggressive with me? Lets see how smart you really are. You started this shit now lets see if you can get out of it.

The forum encourages friendly discussion, well you failed that one miserably. As far as I can see, there was absolutely no point telling me I was being "edgy and witty with a stupid phrase". It's absolutely pointless to the discussion. I could call someone an asshole but it doesn't mean I've proved they are (you reading this Owyn, assumptions isn't discussing, it's just disrespectful).

I don't even know what 'phrase' you were talking about earlier, you just pulled that out of nowhere. Preaching to the choir all the same.

 

[Miss G.]

...I'm such a noob. Meant to quote this post from GoaThief: "So people only like FPS because of gun culture or place of birth? Say what? What country are you from anyway??"


My answer:
When it seems that a country has been founded on some of those things I believe it does matter, at least somewhat. I was born here in the US, but my family is Bahamian thus I've been raised in The Bahamas since I was 2 weeks old. Even though I've been back here for school since 2012, there's still a blatant disconnect between the Bahamian and the American parts of me. Coming from a technically outside perspective, the culture here pertaining to guns and military stuff (amongst many other things) isn't something I can really claim to understand as I didn't grow up with it. Off topic I could've asked the thread to explain the appeal of stuff like bagels and apples for the same cultural reasons because I don't get those either and I'm studying to be a baker.

 

[Reaper195]

Aside from Bethesda developed/published games, I don't think any RPGs are first-person. Correct me if I'm wrong though. And JRPGs? Never even heard of one being first person before. And aside from the aformentioned, all other FP is in shooters.

 

[Miss G.]

Aside from Bethesda developed/published games, I don't think any RPGs are first-person. Correct me if I'm wrong though. And JRPGs? Never even heard of one being first person before. And aside from the aformentioned, all other FP is in shooters.

Some of the FP JRPGs are ATLUS titles. And I think some old-school dungeon crawlers are as well.

 

[CrystalShadow]

I loathe the first person perspective in games. The realistic stance takes a big hit because it doesn't take into account depth perception, peripheral vision or spacial awareness. I find the first person view in games to be like having a completely numb body, in a strange location and being forced to wear an eye patch and blinkers.

Now true the third person view is hardly any more realistic, we don't view ourselves from behind after all. However it helps replicate depth perception by being able to view the character against objects in the environment. Peripheral vision and spacial awareness by the wider field of view around the character.

It takes a special game for me to be able to look past the first person view in games. So far the only ones that have done that are the Left4Dead and Halo games, and then only really when played in co-op.

Yeah, it's like having tunnel vision.

Also, while 3rd person is an odd perspective, it helps compensate for other missing senses.

For instance, between peripheral vision, and your sense of touch, you probably know if there is a person or object very close behind you, or beside you, or whatever else.

In first-person, you lose most of that awareness. (Unless you count the directional indication of taking damage a lot of games have.)

The lack of peripheral vision combined with lack of a sense of touch in particular really kills your awareness of your surroundings in first-person.

Possibly more immersive in some ways. (And I've got nothing against it.), but 3rd person seems to ironically better compensate for the sensory limitations of the medium.

 

[Extragorey]

What's the deal with third-person games?

Judging third-person modes by Skyrim's, they seem unnecessarily awkward and just makes it more difficult to interact with the world because you keep having to second-guess where the characters' collision meshes are. First person is much more natural and intuitive.

 

[Havzad]

You are up there, its all happening right in front of you, it might be terrifying, hilarious, amazing, whatever....but it is YOU seeing it with your very eyes.
First person just makes for the most immersive experience. you feel as if you are experiencing it with your own eyes. you tend to forget you are controlling a character.

I would have to say fallout 3+4 (or almost any bethesda game) use the advantage of first person to its fullest effect. In fallout 3 i felt so immersed especially in the early vault section, and it feels as if the first person perspective really made it that much more intense.

I just finished a replay of GTA:san andreas and while it is also a very immersive experience the fact that its third person reminds me that i'm just playing a character while in first person I feel as if I am the character.

Comparing elements of combat: in GTA when im getting shot at I almost don't even notice ( and then my health drops to zero and I find myself in a hospital) in third person you're dependant on watching your character react to the bullets and wounds.
In a game like fallout (when first person) you know you are getting hurt, because a rocket just collided with your face or the screen bloodied up, it overall adds to the experience in a way that 3rd person cannot. (not that first person is in anyway better than third mind you)

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I don't get it either; I've always found it to be restrictive and most of the time, let's face it, there AREN'T many good first person titles that wouldn't work BETTER in 3rd person. At least with 3rd person you can be more aware of your surroundings, thus leading to less frustration. I've also noticed that shooting is pretty much the ONLY kind of combat style that works in first person, thus limiting gameplay even further. People try to pull the "immersion" argument, but I've never bought that. Perspective has never drawn me into a world. No, what draws me in to most games are the worlds, the characters, the writing, etc. Y'know, the IMPORTANT things

 

[Sandernista]

It depends on the game. I think the first person perspective works better in fast paced shooters, exploration rpgs, etc. Third person works better for hack and slash, cover based shooters, games where you dress your character up, etc.

I really enjoyed the third person perspective in WH40k spess mareeen, but I don't think it could work for Bioshock Infinite.

I have no real preference.

 

[Cranky]

Heh, I find both equally immersive for different reasons. In 1st person, you sorta experience the things, then in 3rd person, you feel like you are this guy following your character around in some "good reality tv show". (That phrase has never been used before, I bet.)

 

[Nazulu]

You know, you haven't described anything. You just keep ragging on about 'majority of games' that are supposedly easy to get into without bringing up anything. And even then it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I haven't described anything. Your statement describes the basic of nearly every game - point to your goal. Be it the attack move in a RTS, the 'talk to' command in a RPG or the aiming in a shooter. In every case you point towards your goal or whatever you want to achieve.

The problem with the phrase you used initially is that it has a very limited application and even then it is not entirely true. It doesn't describe the appeal of the first person perspective (what the thread was all about) and not even the appeal of shooters in general. It is not about my favorite games or a few exceptions. It is about limiting the spectrum of games (and resulting from that genres) that use the perspective into one single subgenre (because FPS is way too broad as a term for that statement to apply).

I wasn't saying 'to aim for your goal', now I know why you keep saying "every game ever". I couldn't figure out what you were talking about. Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I meant is that (and I'm using my friends as an example here) is that the style of game play seeing through the eye's of the character, and using weapons or keys or whatever with everything staying 'sight' is maybe easier for people to focus on. I hope that makes sense.

All my friends preferred to play first person perspective games because all of the control is from the main character. When I tried to get them to play an RTS they didn't really like controlling all the building and units, they just wanted to focus on the one character. Some of my friends don't like 3rd person perspective games because those games usually require you to focus on the environment around you a bit more, if that makes sense.

Now I'm not saying this is fact, I'm just basing this from what my friends said to me. I suggested the style might be easier and I can see now that has confused everyone, so sorry everyone.

If it came abroad as aggressive then I apologise. I didn't want to insult you or imply any aggression towards you, I just wanted to discuss a statement that was stupid when it was coined and why I describe it that way. I also admit that the 'edgy and witty' phrase was uncalled for.

I screwed up, but just please ask for more detail next time.

 

[Dragonbums]

I'm indifferent to whether or not something is first person or not.
However it only slightly matters if it's a "create your own character" thing, or is integral to the tone of the game.

In my opinion first person works best in games like Elder Scrolls because it allows you an even further immersion with your character.