What's Up With Most Anime and Rape? *SPOILERS*

[Ian Caronia]

The Cowboy Bebop Movie
My hate for that scene in the Bebop Movie is detached from this,

Detached enough to totally misinterpret what happened in that scene, if it's the one I'm thinking of. Faye wasn't raped. She was force-fed the guy's blood via kiss. That's kinda how she survived the movie.

And really, when I came into this thread, I wasn't expecting someone to complain about rape treated with correct horror. I was expecting someone to be complaining about the combination Stockholm Syndrome/Domination Fantasy that a lot of hentai and ero-doujinshi like to call rape. I seriously can't tell what you're complaining about.

Except with Gantz, of course. I haven't heard much good about that manga anyway.

Well firstly the reason I'm not talking about ero-doujinshi and manga porn is because it's porn. Is it creepy? Yes. But it's porn. It's much more excusable, or rather, much more easy to ignore since it doesn't take place amidst a story we care about involving characters we've come to be emotionally invested in. I just mean to say that, to me, porn doesn't need to be argued over or critiqued because, ultimately, all of it is inconsequential.

Secondly, I'm complaining about meaningless rape in stories. I thought that was clear in the OP. A rape scene or a rape plot arc that doesn't need to be written/drawn/animated period is what I'm complaining about. Something that is, as previously described, seemingly plopped in just for the fetish fuel or written in because it's the lazy man's way of developing drama. _I'm also out to find out the real reason why it exists, and thus far it seems to be a mixture of venting societal pressure, lazy writing, and throwing the sicker pervs a bone.
Though I'm still somewhat confused since the easiest way of venting that pressure would be through action, not rape, and even then if they needed to vent like that they always have rape mangas (hence the idea that porn is inconsequential really). Lazy writing is odd since some of these stories have really good writing aside from the meaningless rape incidents. They seem to just randomly stoop to it for no damn reason.
What's left seems to be the easiest but oddest answer of all: It's all some sort of twisted fan service

Lastly, Cowboy Bebop the movie was something I watched when I was much younger. It's true. I don't remember much aside from the butterflies, the hairy guy being a crazy bioterrorist or something, and of course the rape of one of my favorite characters growing up.
It's mentioned in a previous post on this thread where someone looked up what happens in the movie. Apparently it's implied, as it fades to black, but I don't need a graphic scene to know what happened. However, if there is proof that she wasn't raped, then the hate I've held for that movie for many years will die out. ...Kinda.

 

[MFenix]

Rape in Gankutsuo? Now I'm glad I dropped after the first episode >.>

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Aren't yaoi titles like Fruits Basket chock-full of rape? I've never read any myself, but, you know, TV Tropes.

This whole thing reminds me of this [http://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/22489/] (NSFW).

Wow. Just... wow.

First of all, Fruits Basket isn't a yaoi. It's a love-triangle manga where several males compete for the attention of the female protagonist. The males involved are all very attractive and generally speaking straight.

You're thinking of doujinshis, which are basically fan-fiction in comic form. Some dojins are just normal fanfiction, some are porn. However, just like western fanfic, the authors often screw around with the relationships.

 

[tychothereborn]

idk why there is so much rape in anime but i just finished watching an anime and for no reason they added rape that did not even seem to fit nor did it do anything for the story.

it was NOIR wasnt that great and it was like last or second to last episode and it was completely pointless and out of the blue . . . kinda like the show . . . oh well

 

[MegaManOfNumbers]

Ther's some irony right here.

though I can't put my finger on it.

 

[MegaManOfNumbers]

Could it be simply because of the strict social mores, upbringing, and restrictive nature of japan leave most of the men feeling powerless. So a rape fantasy, which is about power and domination, seems like something that could appeal to an 'oppressive' society.

The tentacles make no damn sense though.

*cracks fingers*

(let's see if I remember this right).

Tentacles is a phallic symbol; multiple ones, er... "inside" women represents their powerlessness and oveerwelming pleasure, two things men desire to cause to women.

this DEFINITELY links with your description on rape.

Also, women are also alot more powerful than men in their society (in modern society). this probably inflicts an idea of rebellion towards them from males. ergo, women will taunt men with "look, but no touch" ideal.

this doesn't help the fact that any japanese women that is somewhat decent looking are EXTREMELY hot. sorry, that'll be my f**ked up fetishes talking.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Aren't yaoi titles like Fruits Basket chock-full of rape?

...

You're clearly thinking of something else.

To answer your question, though, yes. It's unfortunately prevalent. You have no idea how many titles I have to dig through to find a decent yaoi title that's not only rape-free, but also not completely silly.

That's only been a handful, so far.

Well firstly the reason I'm not talking about ero-doujinshi and manga porn is because it's porn. Is it creepy? Yes. But it's porn. It's much more excusable, or rather, much more easy to ignore since it doesn't take place amidst a story we care about involving characters we've come to be emotionally invested in.

Either you're reading the wrong porn, or you have the commendable opinion that enough story and character development reverses the "porn" label, regardless of the presence of erotic material. I actually kinda hope it's the latter.

Secondly, I'm complaining about meaningless rape in stories. I thought that was clear in the OP. A rape scene or a rape plot arc that doesn't need to be written/drawn/animated period is what I'm complaining about. Something that is, as previously described, seemingly plopped in just for the fetish fuel or written in because it's the lazy man's way of developing drama. _I'm also out to find out the real reason why it exists, and thus far it seems to be a mixture of venting societal pressure, lazy writing, and throwing the sicker pervs a bone.

Then why did you bring up Berserk, of all things? Casca's rape was terrifying and consequential.

I mean, upon rereading your post, I guess you were talking about Guts' backstory as the one you weren't complaining about, but it's the same thing, basically.

What's left seems to be the easiest but oddest answer of all: It's all some sort of twisted fan service

Actually, I'd call it "affective storytelling." It's the whole "show, don't tell" idea. Implication only goes so far, and even a fade-to-black lessens impact.

And the fact that you're objecting this strongly shows that you view rape as horrifying, which is what writers bank on when writing on the subject. It's certainly possible to use it poorly, or disrespectfully, but as a trope in-and-of itself, it's workable.

I mean, there definitely is twisted fanservice when it comes to rape, but you've already written off essentially every genre that includes it.

Lastly, Cowboy Bebop the movie was something I watched when I was much younger. It's true. I don't remember much aside from the butterflies, the hairy guy being a crazy bioterrorist or something, and of course the rape of one of my favorite characters growing up.
It's mentioned in a previous post on this thread where someone looked up what happens in the movie. Apparently it's implied, as it fades to black, but I don't need a graphic scene to know what happened. However, if there is proof that she wasn't raped, then the hate I've held for that movie for many years will die out. ...Kinda.

The "proof" is when you find out just what the hell the villain's plan was. I mean, the scenes go...

1. Faye is infected with the nanomachines while investigating the villain. He returns and finds her stumbling around. He sucks some blood from his wound (Faye clips him with a bullet), bends her over a table, and force-kisses her.

*in between, the audience finds the truth behind the nanomachines and the villain*

2. The villain is doing a monologue about his plan, his immunity, and his life philosophy to Faye, revealing that the blood he fed her was an antibody. Faye is tied-up on the floor, fully clothed, and a prisoner. There's nothing to indicate that he's done anything beyond that, and indeed, Faye is acting fairly normal and alternately curious and contemptuous. When he offers to leave her alive in the world alongside him, she even trash-talks him. Even when he slices one article of clothing from her, she essentially spits in his face. These are not the actions of a rape victim. However...

3. ...they're interrupted by the villain's lackey returning. The villain confirms that the plan is going forward, murders the lackey, tells Faye that she can watch him kill the world, and leaves immediately.

4. After he's gone, Faye frees herself.

There was no rape. The farthest it went was the implication that the villain might have had things gone differently...but frankly, I always assumed he was just trying to intimidate her, since rape seemed a bit out-of-character.

 

[Kevonovitch]

relative culture fetishes, the "collective" one's i guess u could say...

i mean, the brits and bondadge and S&M ect.
the americans and any girl 14 and under.
the japanese have forced sex (which in the end they like, or become sex addicts after. or so most of it seems to be.) i could never argue tentacle rape, cuz tbh, it's hilarious XD

 

[NathLines]

Wut? FYI, I can't remember seeing any rape in an anime ever. I'll have to think on this one. And mind you, I have seen a shit ton of anime.

 

[lcyw20]

Only way to find out, ask the Japanese. I haven't a clue as to what they think they are doing to their youths (and to some extension, the rest of world's).

 

[theevilsanta]

I think a lot of this comes down to porn. When I watch a western porno 95% of the sex is consensual. In a Japanese porno 95% of the sex is at least dubious consent or worse. That's a weird thing.

To the people saying "fan service": It's fan service to have a female character you love/hate raped? What kind of fan is this? Male empowerment fantasizes aren't a new thing, but this stuff makes all of Japan look messed up.

What I'd really like is a weeaboo to admit that sex in Japan is wrong and messed up, more than the rest of the world. Because, you know, it is (or at least it comes off that way).

 

[thirdsonsaburo]

I think Western commentators tend to overstate the occurrence of rape and distasteful sexual content in mainstream anime. It's easy to go "Man, Japan is weird, it's got all that tentacle porn and stuff" just based on a few outstandingly noxious examples, but in reality the majority of anime doesn't actually have much rape at all.

 

[Trolldor]

I think Western commentators tend to overstate the occurrence of rape and distasteful sexual content in mainstream anime. It's easy to go "Man, Japan is weird, it's got all that tentacle porn and stuff" just based on a few outstandingly noxious examples, but in reality the majority of anime doesn't actually have much rape at all.

That you quantify with "not much rape at all" is hilarious.

Point in fact, Japan has a fucked up attitude towards sex. It's a combination of overt expression and extreme oppression which is why you get mainstream magazines filled with photos of fifteen year old girls in swimsuits and lingere.

 

[Ian Caronia]

Either you're reading the wrong porn, or you have the commendable opinion that enough story and character development reverses the "porn" label, regardless of the presence of erotic material. I actually kinda hope it's the latter.

Don't worry, it is. I consider a story that has even a lot of sex in it more erotica than porn if the story is well told and the characters are well written. ...And they do more than fuck, of course.
I was talking specifically about series that one would not expect rape, like the Count of Monte Cristo. That rape scene came from NOWHERE and contributed NOTHING to the plot. As you can imagine, I raged hard.

Then why did you bring up Berserk, of all things? Casca's rape was terrifying and consequential.

I mean, upon rereading your post, I guess you were talking about Guts' backstory as the one you weren't complaining about, but it's the same thing, basically.

Spoiler: I...I won't get too into the Casca rape specifically, suffice to say...

Once you get into the writing world you view stories differently. And I'm not being pompous or trying to lord something over you, please don't get the wrong idea. I just mean that, as a writer, I've come to understand that a story can be written in nearly countless ways. When you have the depths of human sin and the heights of angelic purity at your disposal, you figuratively have heaven and hell at your fingertips. A good writer knows how to balance peace and torture in their story. They put their cast through hell and push them close to the brink (because that's what conflict is about).
But a good writer never pushes them over that edge of destruction. And that is what he did to Casca.
_Honestly? It was cheap what he did, no matter the purpose it had in the villain's plans or whatever. It was a cheap way to get a reaction from the reader. It was a cheap way to get Guts to be a mostly "lone wolf" hero (aside from that supposedly annoying fairy sidekick thing). It was a cheap way to extend the lifespan of the series and keep readers coming back to see what will happen next and when Griffith will pay for what he did(which was already there before the rape because of what happened prior). It showed no respect for the character or her potential, and more importantly, it turns Casca from a fully developed, relatable and admirable character...into a pitiable walking memory. Every time the reader sees her now all they see is what happened. This isn't what you want as a good writer. For another character to see that, sure maybe. It develops how that other character behaves and interacts. But you never want your audience to view a character as just a victim. It's depressing as a reader, insulting as a writer, and just seems like a horribly lazy and misguided attempt at making a sympathetic character. And, from what I hear, this writer relies on rape a LOT to develop drama in a story and in characters. If that's true then I have two words: Lazy. Cheap and lazy.

"She's gonna get better soon!" (what I heard last time, anyway)
I don't care. She should've been better from the start.
The writer should've been better than that. ...The ironic thing is, looking back at Guts, you can tell that at one point he was.

Actually, I'd call it "affective storytelling." It's the whole "show, don't tell" idea. Implication only goes so far, and even a fade-to-black lessens impact.

Spoiler: The idea of show don't tell...

applies to things like a character's beliefs and mentality. Instead of narrating to the reader about it and making them wade through gobs of text to get to know a character, you let them find out on their own through how the character behaves by themselves and with others, and how they reacts to certain events.
_There is no reason for a rape to be detailed or fully shown aside from shock value. As a matter of fact, it would have more of an impact if you didn't force the audience through all of that and instead showed the after effects, or gave hints as to what happened along a span of time until either the audience figures it out or you finally reveal it.
Case in point: Guts explaining to Casca what happened to him as a kid. No, we didn't need to see him getting raped and it shouldn't have been there. Why? Because of everything that happened before and after, and the entire revealing scene itself. Everything that was hinted at in his character (his disdain for being touched and so on) finally made sense. When he finally opens up, it's not only a great sense of release within the story but also for the readers. Any fan of Berserk will tell you how much they remember that moment. They might've even teared up during it. That's how you do rape in a story. And if it didn't depict young Guts being raped (I think it was for only one panel, but even still), it would be the perfect example of this.

In a way you can say that when it comes to having impact, the policy is to "tell, don't show". How much more impact can a detailed rape scene have over a stunning and heartfelt revelation?

And no, I haven't written off any story or genre that uses it. I write off stories that use it poorly and wrongly. Find another way than rape, or even murder. If you can't, or if you think rape will be the best choice and you know you're going to implement it correctly, then have at it. I respect authors, filmers and the like that pull it off.

The "proof" is when you find out just what the hell the villain's plan was. I mean, the scenes go...
*snip*
There was no rape. The farthest it went was the implication that the villain might have had things gone differently...but frankly, I always assumed he was just trying to intimidate her, since rape seemed a bit out-of-character.

Well, if what you say is true then...
...Well fuck, man! I was eleven! XD lol I feel like the maker of Earthbound.
"Wait...so that wasn't a violent rape? ...Oh. ...THESE LAST TEN YEARS OF MY LIFE HAVE BEEN A LIIEEE!!"

Hope you don't feel offended by any of my responses, mate. Didn't mean to make it seem that way, if it came off as such. : )

 

[Serving UpSmiles]

The average man in Japan has very little control in his day to day life (see: Workplace) and rape fantasies give them complete control. That's why Japanese porn is very rape-orientated, it's all about the power they don't actually have.

At least someone's not afraid to say it, I used to think its because all their porn is censored so they need to reach kinkier depths

Captcha: teroutu fums?

 

[Ian Caronia]

In Hellsing ultimate I think the rape part was completely unnecessary.

*watches episode 4 of Hellsing Ultimate*
Wow, wait, so THAT'S what happened in Victoria's past? ...Really?
..
..WHAT THE FUCK, MAN?! That wasn't nessecary at all! Are you serious?! And what's with the-
*groans*
This is why I stick with the original series and don't give a shit about the "filler villain ending".

 

[Gaiseric]

Berserks rape had artistic merit and added to the storyline in a respectful and meaningful way. One of the characters rape left him/her psychologically broken and was central to the second act goal. You couldnt take away this huge plot point without drastically changing the story.

I was going to say that, but you said it better and without the spoilers I would have needed.

Maybe he's talking about the anime? That story stops pretty much right after and it doesn't really come into play storywise.

 

[Lucane]

Wait there was rape in the Cowboy Bebop Movie?
How did I miss that?

Yeah, I missed it too. I looked it up and this is what I found. (Spoilers for those who haven't seen the movie.)

Spoiler

Ed and Ein head out to track down the hacker. They find him and call in Faye. They get distracted and leave, so Faye shows up and doesn't know where to go. Vincent is playing solitaire again, and when Lee shows up, Vincent shoots the last bead on his board. "Only one can win." Lee breaks the window as he chokes to death on the virus, and Faye runs up to him. "Press my reset button," he says, dying. Faye also gets woosy from the virus and sees golden butterflies. Vincent returns and she shoots him, and he tastes his blood. He then leans down over her apparently to rape her, as the screen fades away.

Apparently, it's "implied," but I honestly DON'T think it happened.

Yeah I don't think that happens either Vincent would of shown a history of sexually mistreating women or Faye would of either had a mention of it or been *off* in the next scene. Besides Vincent's only concern was dying not getting laid one last time.

 

[Casual Shinji]

If you know Berserk, you'll know that there's only one instant where there is "sex because it's love". And that's between Guts and Caska.

And most of the rape in Berserk is performed by demons, who basically act on instinct anyway. Point is that neither the violence or the rape ever felt gratuitous, but was there to show the reader the unforgivingness of this universe.

Example: In the Tower of Conviction arc there's a scene where a young girl is led to a torture chamber, and she's psyching herself up so as not to crack and spill the beans about her friend being a witch. She's confident in her resolution to do the right thing regardless of what torture she might endure. But the moment she steps into the torture chamber and - along with the reader - sees the horrific goings on (things that actually happend back in the real life middle ages) she immediately rats out her friend. And we as the audience don't even blame her for it, because we saw what she saw.

I can't comment on the other things coming from Japan, but Berserk doesn't have rape for the heck of it; It serves a point in the narritve.