What's with the extreme Nintendo Hate?

[crusador90]

Mmmmm... Nintendo hate... I can feel it... so pure...

The audience of the Wii is very absent from these forums, I assume that only a small minority of Nintendo's consumers participate in forum discussion at all. That is the source of this Bile you perceive, we hate them for being popular mostly, and coming here where most people agree with us is very soothing. I am enjoying it way more than I should, but I should probably grow up and deal with the fact that they are going to earn tonnes of money no matter how much I disagree with their decisions.

I find it a bit telling that the Nintendo champions in this thread are being so defensive, I think it's safe to assume that each one has their own grievances with Nintendo's decisions. Search your feelings... you know it's true. You crazy Nintendogs may be a bit of a minority in this corner of the internet, but come on now, you wouldn't be here in this forum if you didn't share quite a bit in common with the guys you are arguing with. You're here to argue with others about what makes your games awesome, most gamers I know in real life aren't even that hardcore, I can't believe you don't see where we're coming from.

Please understand me, I used to love Nintendo, but motion controls and gimmicks just didn't float my boat, and I tried REALLY hard to like them. If they released a Zelda game the same quality as ocarina of time or majora's mask or wind waker and let me play it with a gamepad with no gimmicks I would've been their boy again, one hundred percent, but I guess making me happy wasn't making them enough money. I like to think all Nintendo fans will go through this eventually, they are trying to convince themselves that they are having fun, and they don't want to hear people pour hate on Nintendo because it's distracting. I could've forgiven awkward motion controls just so I could enjoy the old games I loved again, but it just got worse with every game... Skyward Sword... then... Metroid: Other M...

I loved Samus Aran, I chose her as my personal hero when I was just getting into games, she was a female protagonist created when such a thing was almost unheard of. I found myself really admiring her, and I wondered what direction Nintendo was going with her. I could ignore the nudity-reward aspect of the Metroid series, I didn't put much thought into it back then. Then they made her into a T&A pinup. Huh, well I guess that's... just a male thing they are taking advantage of... They should try to make it popular I guess... And when they decided to make a game that finally gave her a meaningful story, they gave it to the misogynists who made Dead or Alive. Inexcusable. I really convinced myself that she was some sort of social commentary on how women were true equals to men. But to Nintendo she was just cash cow number 4. My bad.

I hate Nintendo because Nintendo doesn't want me, plain and simple. And by ignoring me they are being as successful as they want to be. I say let the hate flow.

You have noted that the reason why Metroid: Other M turned the way it did was because of Yoshio Sakamoto's leadership, right? He's basically Nintendo and Metroid's Joe Quesada (Spider-man: One More Day anyone?). That hack pretty much missed nearly every friggin' thing that made the Prime trilogy such a hit and shoehorned in arbitrarily streamlined controls, "Scan" sections that are more like impromptu pixel hunts that reduce the pacing of the game to a needless crawl, unimpressive and mostly forgettable boss fights, an almost completely linear corridor sprint(in contrast to the exploration the series was best known for), recast voice for Samus when it never was necessary (even the the replacement was in fact, a good actress, but given terrible direction for all of her lines), and the worst offender: the absolutely idiotic plot that practically reduces the Prime trilogy to side-story status (even they're even considered canon at all at this point, fans disagree back and forth on this), is hardly consistent with itself, throws in a few hackneyed plot threads that go nowhere if they're even resolved at all, and worst of all, reduce our favorite badass bounty hunter into a monotone, needy, whining woman with daddy issues.

Skyward Sword's controls take some getting used to, and they're certainly not for everyone. Though I have noted that there are some times where the motion controls have a hard time interpreting certain movements and that can make the game more frustrating when it needs to be. When it works, it WORKS!

Whenever Nintendo hate comes out, everyone absolutely friggin' fails to bring up how their handhelds are doing, and they've ALWAYS been doing good with the handhelds, consistently winning in sales every time. The 3DS by now has built up a strong library, plus has access to the DS's library, and has even more games coming in on the way.

 

[deadish]

Debates are meant to allow you to see the situation from someone else's perspective. You don't have to agree with them, but it's supposed to allow you to have a better understanding of why people think a certain way. Maybe saying the 'No ultimate truth' thing was a bit heavy handed on my part.

There is no correct opinion is probably more appropriate. You can demonstrate that one opinion is less thought out and based on ignorance, but you can't provide evidence that proves one opinion is the 'correct' opinion or that said opinion is better then every other.

I have no issue with that. I don't expect people to agree with me on everything. It just that fanboys will never concede, in any way, that you have a point. It's freaking annoying, which is why people hate them.

There are Nintendo fanboys that are very radical about their love for Nintendo. But I'm seeing a lot more people on this thread that can't accept Nintendo did anything correct past the gamecube era. I hate to use the term 'Nintendo Haters', but there are plenty of people who also have a very radical opinion about Nintendo. Just on the opposite scale. People who are completely disregarding evidence that goes against what they believe because the people defending Nintendo are 'fanboys' so their opinion can remain unchallenged.

Exactly how people will disregard someone because they're a 'hater'.

Well, what has Nintendo done right past the Gamecube era ... ><

Half the time it appears they are lucking out rather than succeeding because of careful planning. Starting from the DS, Nintendo started adding gimmicks to their consoles. The DS succeeded because the competition had limited support and was more expensive. The 3DS is kind of in a similar situation - also the market has changed; handheld "entertainment" devices are now dominated by smartphones, no place for a high-end dedicated device, a cheap "disposable" device for kids on the other hand ...

The Wii? Fad. It's over now. Nintendo made a lot of money from non-gamers, but completely destroyed their rep with core gamers - who are the bread and butter of the industry. And instead of using the cash to regain cred and re-enter the race proper ... we got the Wii U ... under-powered + gimmicks ... again.

It's really bad on both sides, but this site in particular seems to be kind of unbalanced against Nintendo in my experience. I love Nintendo but I can accept some criticisms. They need to produce more major original IPs. The ones they have are great but not many of the new IPs being made are getting as much attention as Mario. And it is a very common opinion that Nintendo needs to start getting some heavy hitting titles on the Wii U and fast.

But I love the idea of the Wii U gamepad. I love seeing what Nintendo's plans for Mario, Zelda and others are. And I don't mind that the Wii U has lower specs, because it lowers costs and allows developers to worry less about how good their game looks and more on how interesting their games are. The New Xbox and PS4 seem to be trying to be as much of a PC as possible, while the Wii U has it's own identity and is off doing it's own thing that no other gaming device can really provide.

There are truths on both sides. People just need to balance out a bit and gain a new perspective. I can respect anyone with any opinion as long as they can do a reasonable job of presenting their reasoning. But I don't have to agree with them to see understand why they feel the way they do.

Probably as a counter balance against all the blind praise from the fanboys. LOL. But Nintendo does deserve the criticism. They have been able to get away with things that would have gotten Sony/MS/any other game developer burned at the stake. Just because they are "Nintendo".

Also you are living in a dream world if you think lower specs "allows developers to worry less about how good their game looks and more on how interesting their games are". The reality is "shiny" sells.

You can burn resources making games for the Wii U while your competition work on PS4/Xwhatever titles. When they both launch, gamers will look at your title and compare it to the much shinier next-gen titles. Which do you think they will get a console for?

Secondly, the developers who "worry" about how good the game looks are from a completely different department from the developers who "worry" about the gameplay. They don't interfere with one another, with the exception of the case when the graphics interferes with the gameplay because it's unclear or confusing for the player.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

You shouldn't be making that argument with the 3DS version of the game. Of all it was the least lazy of the re-releases: it added new graphics, the 3D effects, it contains the Master Quest, and it also changed the controllers. The gyroscope now can be used to control the slingshot and the Fairy Bow, which is a lot easier and more precise than using the analogue sticks were in the previous version.
Spending time making it is justified because they actually made the game better.

Doesn't change the fact that it's the same game with a few added things. I don't define that as new content. Even Master Quest had already been made on the Gamecube re-release, the only difference to the 3DS version is that it is mirrored and enemies do more damage.

Generally speaking, I appreciate when companies make re-releases of games on different systems because then I actually get to play them.

And I tried indicating the same in my post.

Admittedly I can understand the logic of why this is a good thing for some people. For those who don't have a home console and only want to buy a portable console to play certain classics.


But it frustrates me how when in selling a new device, Nintendo keeps falling back to a game that they've already made. It's profitable, it may or may not be lazy, but it's damn uncreative to me.

 

[Lightknight]

You're joking about the Xenoblade Chronicles right? Don't get me wrong, it's certainly a fantastic game but you do know it's from the Xeno series, right?

To be fair Xenoblade could be counted as a new IP seeing as it wasn't actually part of the Xeno series at all.It started off as a completely seperate title called Monado:Beginning of the World and the name was only changed late in development.Not sure why as from what I've heard it has little to do with the rest of the Xeno games but I guess maybe they thought it would sell better if it had a recognisable name

While this is a completely fair point that you're making, I want you to recognize that Nintendo leans so heavily on existing IPs that they purposefully turned what should have been a new and exciting IP into something riding the coat tails of a predecessor. It merely proves the point that Nintendo is extremely adverse to taking risks and would rather churn out the xth number of a series than anything without a number or familiar name in it.

Don't get me wrong, that's usually good business. But people (like me) will eventually start to lose interest if new titles don't start cropping up. Understand this, I own all the sytems. I had a Nintendo childhood and ps1/xbox experiences as well. I say this to point out that I don't have a vested interest in any one machine or company like someone who only has one or has always remained loyal to one would have. I think all the consoles and PCs have something to offer while each having their own very real limitations. In any event, issues with their IPs is the least forgiveable mistake a console can make.

I get excited about new titles. The next Mario game does not excite me. I know it's coming and I know basically what it'll probably have in it. There can be some surprises there but not as much as an entirely new IP.

We hate EA, we only think Nintendo is making bad choices when it comes their consoles.

This is a particularly well-timed wording of the scenario. We want EA to fail and go away and to have their IPs ripped from their cold hands by more capable hands that understand artistic integrity beyond it being a buzz word to try to sound indie. We actually feel harmed or damaged by EA's actions, like they're turning our hobby into something dirty and less enjoyable. Nintendo, on the other hand, we just want them to return to the creativity that made it big in the first place. It has allowed itself to become stagnant in a lot of ways and is making decisions that are less than beneficial to its fans and therefore its bottom line.

Can say that I've seen people celebrating, Openly declaring Nintendo dead, or Screaming to the high heavens that Nintendo needs to die.

Well, to be fair to the latter, Nintendo did release a current-gen system within the last year of the current gen cycle. That's potentially a big mistake and seriously positions them poorly for the next release consoles. But in contrast to them and the former group you described, it should be noted that Nintendo really can't compete on the lines of hardware with these two big companies. This is because Nintendo has a significant portion of the casual gamer market. The $400-$600 machines of next gen tech is not what those gamers are going to buy and so Nintendo has a vested interest in making machines that are technologically inferior enough to be cheap but bring enough other elements to the table to remain highly desireable. Releasing this machine a year before the competition hits the market may save them here but it's more likely they'll just do poorly until they release something else. Their 2012 sales forcast for the WiiU hit at about 2.44 million units short of their 5.5 mil mark. Nintendo actually turned a net profit but it looks like most of their profit was from financial investments since they posted an operating loss of 365.5 million.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/24/nintendo-financials-show-a-tough-year

The year before that they lost $530m, so something terribly wrong is going on. 2011 was their first year in the red, by the way, after a profit streak of over three decades. Likely the result of PS3/360 prices getting low enough to be as reasonable as the Wii was when it came out and because smart phones seriously compete on the casual gaming market that Nintendo is so successful at attracting. That 3.06 million units they sold was respectable but they've only sold .4 million units since then as of March 31st of this year (don't have newer numbers yet). That's a bitter slow down and the recent announcement of the next gen of systems isn't going to help them. They need to pump out great titles right now if they want to sell their systems before competitors storm the market with machines that appear to be 8 times as powerful.

I don't think Nintendo is dead, but they need to seriously restructure and return to some fundamentals that they've lost along the way. I mean, Hell, they've been around since 1889, selling playing cards. They deserve their place in our future with such a prestigious place in the past. But where profit is concerned, they've still got to earn it.

I will say this, my Nintendo systems collect dust every time I finish one of their big exclusive titles and wait for the next. If there is a game that is playable on any of the other systems, that's the one I'm going to because they are better processors. While the WiiU is currently more powerful, it still doesn't matter because those AAA games are made with the 360 and ps3 in mind because the WiiU has practically no market presence by comparison. 360: 77.2 million, ps3: est. 77 million (last numbers were as of Nov 4, 2012). WiiU: 3.45 million. Imagine you're a developer, which horse are you going to hitch your cart to? The fact that one is new doesn't even matter, all that matters is where the market stands now and where it's likely to be once your product is finished (if you're a company selling a product to that market).

The thing is, some of the games I play on the other systems remind me of what made Nintendo great. I mean, Little Big Planet? Tell me if you didn't know it was Sony that you wouldn't assume Nintendo was the mastermind behind it. If even the software on the other systems can compete with what Nintendo offers then something has to give. Either Nintendo has to start trying to compete based on hardware in a way they aren't as equiped to do or they've got to figure out another way to play the game. I'm not so sure that going the way of software publisher isn't in their near future. But I would certainly be surprised by their death as a company. Especially when their investments are good enough to compensate for operating losses of that magnitude. It means their finance division is full of baddasses that are keeping the company alive. But if they can still pull out more paradigm shifting "Wii" moments where the processing power of the machine doesn't matter so much then I hope more power to them. In any event, it was innovation that brought the Wii and that same innovation needs to come to its software.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

You have noted that the reason why Metroid: Other M turned the way it did was because of Yoshio Sakamoto's leadership, right? He's basically Nintendo and Metroid's Joe Quesada (Spider-man: One More Day anyone?). That hack pretty much missed nearly every friggin' thing that made the Prime trilogy such a hit and shoehorned in arbitrarily streamlined controls, "Scan" sections that are more like impromptu pixel hunts that reduce the pacing of the game to a needless crawl, unimpressive and mostly forgettable boss fights, an almost completely linear corridor sprint(in contrast to the exploration the series was best known for), recast voice for Samus when it never was necessary (even the the replacement was in fact, a good actress, but given terrible direction for all of her lines), and the worst offender: the absolutely idiotic plot that practically reduces the Prime trilogy to side-story status (even they're even considered canon at all at this point, fans disagree back and forth on this), is hardly consistent with itself, throws in a few hackneyed plot threads that go nowhere if they're even resolved at all, and worst of all, reduce our favorite badass bounty hunter into a monotone, needy, whining woman with daddy issues.

Except...Sakamoto's NOT. That's the weird thing about a lot of the bile thrown at Sakamoto, you don't actually have anything to support it except MAYBE a few instances of hearsay from some of Team Ninja and none of the stuff from them was ever truly negative. Considering how Ninja Gaiden 3 (which was also panned for a REALLY bad plot) turned out, I've been wondering if what really happened was that they REALLY couldn't get Sakamoto's direction across and screwed up badly. Looks like things are a bit more complicated then first thought.

P.S. Yeah, the Prime Trilogy IS a side story; canon, but still a side story. Even Retro admitted that.

 

[MetalDooley]

While this is a completely fair point that you're making, I want you to recognize that Nintendo leans so heavily on existing IPs that they purposefully turned what should have been a new and exiting IP into something riding the coat tails of a predecessor.

From Wikipedia:

"Originally titled Monado: Beginning of the World, the game was retitled Xenoblade in January 2010 to honour Tetsuya Takahashi, "who poured his soul into making this and [?] the Xeno series"

Hardly sounds like a cynical business decision by Nintendo now does it

It merely proves the point that Nintendo is extremely adverse to taking risks

I don't know.I reckon releasing a console completely based around motion controls while simultaneously trying to bring in a entirely new audience is pretty risky.It would have been easy to just release a more powerful version of their previous console which is pretty much what Sony and Microsoft did

and would rather churn out the xth number of a series than anything without a number or familiar name in it.

Wii Sports,Wii Play,Big Brain Academy,Endless Ocean,Wii Fit,Wii Music,Captain Rainbow,Flingsmash,Fortune Street,The Last Story,Pandora's Tower,Magnetica,Maboshi,Art Style series,Lonpos,Bonsai Barber,You Me and the Cubes,Eco Shooter,Line attack heroes,Fluidity,Thruspace,Lego City Undercover,Electroplankton,Elite Beat Agents,Hotel Dusk:Room 215,Master of Illusion,Rhythm Heaven,The Legendary Starfy,Fossil Fighters,Glory of Heracles,Art Academy,Solatorobo:Red the Hunter,Inazuma Eleven,Steel Diver,Spirit Camera:The Cursed Memoir,Freakyforms,

Just a list of some of the games developed/published by Nintendo since 2006.How many of those have numbers or familiar names exactly?

 

[klaynexas3]

My main beef with Nintendo is their stagnation with most of their first party games with little new IP coming out of them. While they can make something fun, it's a bland kind of fun at this point; an "I've seen all this before" type of fun. I love my 3DS, don't get me wrong, and it has some pretty damn good games with the whole DS library to also back it up, but I can say most of what comes from them directly in terms of software is a little bland. Not all of it mind you, just a fair amount of it. So I don't hate it, I just want to see them stop beating dead horses and try out some new ones. I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

[GeneralFungi]

There are Nintendo fanboys that are very radical about their love for Nintendo. But I'm seeing a lot more people on this thread that can't accept Nintendo did anything correct past the gamecube era. I hate to use the term 'Nintendo Haters', but there are plenty of people who also have a very radical opinion about Nintendo. Just on the opposite scale. People who are completely disregarding evidence that goes against what they believe because the people defending Nintendo are 'fanboys' so their opinion can remain unchallenged.

Exactly how people will disregard someone because they're a 'hater'.

Well, what has Nintendo done right past the Gamecube era ... ><

Half the time it appears they are lucking out rather than succeeding because of careful planning. Starting from the DS, Nintendo started adding gimmicks to their consoles. The DS succeeded because the competition had limited support and was more expensive. The 3DS is kind of in a similar situation - also the market has changed; handheld "entertainment" devices are now dominated by smartphones, no place for a high-end dedicated device, a cheap "disposable" device for kids on the other hand ...

The Wii? Fad. It's over now. Nintendo made a lot of money from non-gamers, but completely destroyed their rep with core gamers - who are the bread and butter of the industry. And instead of using the cash to regain cred and re-enter the race proper ... we got the Wii U ... under-powered + gimmicks ... again.

I apologize but at this point you're demonstrating the exact kind behaviour I was referring to. Whether or not the Wii still has the same market appeal is debatable, but you're so determined to believe that Nintendo has done nothing positive in the past decade so you're simply calling intelligent business decisions luck. You're telling me that these 'fanboys' can't be debated with because they never concede on any points, but you're doing exactly that now. You're being the exact thing you are rallying against just on the opposite scale. The DS, 3DS and Wii weren't dumb decisions that got lucky. They were very deliberate, and Nintendo made those positive business decision deliberately. You might want to look up this thing known as 'confirmation bias' because at this point I'm seeing quite a lot of that.

Another thing that is starting to get on my nerves is how easy it is to dismiss something as a 'gimmick' so that they can be conveniently ignored. I thought everyone's problem with Nintendo was that they're not taking enough risks and that they aren't being creative? Yet you get all kinds of people who will completely dismiss a console because 'gimmicks' as if it is the all encompassing word that confirms a gaming device is bad and forever will be bad. The Wii was an awfully big risk. The Wii U, once again, is an awfully big risk. People want Nintendo to innovate but that's exactly what they've been doing. They're giving you new ways to play games to give you unique experiences that no other console can provide.

But no, Nintendo would be much more innovative if they created a console identical to the next xbox and playstation. I'd rather all of my consoles be the exact same box with the exact same controller. For innovation's sake.

I find it a bit telling that the Nintendo champions in this thread are being so defensive, I think it's safe to assume that each one has their own grievances with Nintendo's decisions. Search your feelings... you know it's true. You crazy Nintendogs may be a bit of a minority in this corner of the internet, but come on now, you wouldn't be here in this forum if you didn't share quite a bit in common with the guys you are arguing with. You're here to argue with others about what makes your games awesome, most gamers I know in real life aren't even that hardcore, I can't believe you don't see where we're coming from.

I can see where you're coming from. I have to strain my neck as I look up and I must squint my eyes a bit just because of how tall your high horse actually is, but I can catch feint glimpses of you from time to time.

You aren't required to like Nintendo or like their consoles. But your attitude is extremely condescending and it's on the basis that some people in the discussion don't share the same views as everyone else. You're essentially treating people who still like Nintendo and their products like troubled youth who just don't understand gaming as much as YOU do.

I understand why people aren't particular radical when it comes to Nintendo. I ride a horse considerably shorter then yours, so as I ride down the street I come within hearing range of people with alternate opinions to mine and try to view it from their perspective in order to understand their feelings.

At such a high altitude I wonder if you hear anything you don't want to hear at all.

 

[Lightknight]

While this is a completely fair point that you're making, I want you to recognize that Nintendo leans so heavily on existing IPs that they purposefully turned what should have been a new and exiting IP into something riding the coat tails of a predecessor.

From Wikipedia:

"Originally titled Monado: Beginning of the World, the game was retitled Xenoblade in January 2010 to honour Tetsuya Takahashi, "who poured his soul into making this and [?] the Xeno series"

Hardly sounds like a cynical business decision by Nintendo now does it

Why does that change it? I'm sure you are basically familiar with the kind of work and resources needed to aquire the IP licensing that are involved with making a title part of the IP franchise, right? Someone thought this would be a lucrative decision to make (they weren't wrong) and probably thought of the honor to Tetsuya as an added benefit (also not wrong) or a way to explain why they made the decision other than a more lucrative way. While it's a bit naive to think that sinking resources into IP licensing and rebranding would be done out of the goodness of a company's heart, it also doesn't have to be cynical to be a good and calculated business decision. But seriously, aren't things that are changed to honor someone usually done so to honor the dead (which Tetsuya is decidedly not)? I'd put this firmly in the realm of using a beloved name to associate with an unestablished title. It do not know how much game alteration was then done to bring the game in-line with its new title or how long before the rebranding they know the change would be made.

I don't know.I reckon releasing a console completely based around motion controls while simultaneously trying to bring in a entirely new audience is pretty risky.It would have been easy to just release a more powerful version of their previous console which is pretty much what Sony and Microsoft did

Huh? Trying to compete directly on hardware lines with giant tech companies like Sony and Microsoft that were capable of producing vastly powerful consoles (compared to Wii capabilities) that incured large losses every time they sold a system for years would have been far riskier for Nintendo. See, Nintendo is a gaming company with little else on the fire besides games. Ever since the gamecube era they were really beginning to fall behind technologically (except in handhelds). The comparable size of Nintendo matters because they have a singular focus with which they rise or fall while Microsoft and Sony have a lot of other irons in the fire that were able to compensate for that division's losses in the short term in hopes of future profit. Nintendo knew this ever since the gamecube and figured out that the only way to play the game was to do something else. People can ***** all-day-long that it was just a gimmick but the Wii-motes were a welcome innovation to the industry and I don't think they'd have survived without it. Was it a risk? Yeah, but less so than trying to compete with giants on their own turf. I do wonder how they financially line up though. Could Nintendo release a legitimate competitor to the ps4 and 720 with a comparable price within the next few years? I don't know that they have the resources or infrastructure or efficiencies of the other companies to enter that market. Getting barred from AAA 3rd party titles is pretty difficult where competition is concerned. This is why the day the Wii U came out with major current generation titles like Mass Effect 3. They were catching up on the huge titles they missed an opportunity with a system like the Wii. I could not see myself, as a serious gamer, owning only a Nintendo console in this day and age. I can, however, see myself owning only a ps4, 720, or pc and not the next Nintendo console as things stand.

Wii Sports,Wii Play,Big Brain Academy,Endless Ocean,Wii Fit,Wii Music,Captain Rainbow,Flingsmash,Fortune Street,The Last Story,Pandora's Tower,Magnetica,Maboshi,Art Style series,Lonpos,Bonsai Barber,You Me and the Cubes,Eco Shooter,Line attack heroes,Fluidity,Thruspace,Lego City Undercover,Electroplankton,Elite Beat Agents,Hotel Dusk:Room 215,Master of Illusion,Rhythm Heaven,The Legendary Starfy,Fossil Fighters,Glory of Heracles,Art Academy,Solatorobo:Red the Hunter,Inazuma Eleven,Steel Diver,Spirit Camera:The Cursed Memoir,Freakyforms,

Just a list of some of the games developed/published by Nintendo since 2006.How many of those have numbers or familiar names exactly?

I'm not 100% sure if you are disaggreeing with my point or just trying to prove my point with this list. I went ahead and visited the wiki and metacritic site to research these obscure titles. The majority of those games hit 75 metacritic or lower (with Flingsmash dipping into the 40s). One game you listed, Captain Rainbow, only sold a whopping 23k copies to date. Several were JP only or DS only titles which don't generally mean major IP releases. A few were also old IPs that they were revisiting like Fortune Street which has been around since 1991 and was available on the Playstation consoles since. Many of the 70 scores are basic puzzle games and are by no means the kind of games hardcore gamers like myself are talking about. We're talking about the Marios, Zeldas, Halos, inFamous, Heavy Rains and all the other IPs that stick with us. We don't buy a system because they have great puzzle games. We get those on our phones now, for free or cheap. Hell, I just purchased and played "The Room". I strongly recommend it if these are the games you're somehow touting as new IPs that Nintendo put legitimate resources behind. These are (mostly) not good games.

Many of the fitness and sports games that use the Wii are successors to the Power Pad games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Pad

Slapping Wii on the name doesn't mean they are entirely void of predecessors. Like I said before, they typically create games to showcase new peripherals and this generation was that practice on steroids (it was a good call on their part). Doesn't mean that's a bad idea, I loved Wii Sports like just about everyone else who played it. But I'd argue that the real innovation there was the controller, not the game. There's no storyline or memorable characters in any of those. The breakthrough was in the way we play the games. With all that in mind, I wouldn't really think of them as new IPs like I would many of the other games you listed. They ARE new IPs, that's fair. But at the very least I'd put them all under the same IP of Wii-blank. Which is a game specifically designed to utilize the peripherals of the system.

The type of titles I'm talking about aren't these small download puzzle games or handheld games such as the ones you listed. The types of titles I'm talking are games like The Last Story, Red Steel (why didn't you mention this one? I enjoyed it), and No More Heroes. Nintendo is completely capable of putting these games out but they are simply falling behind the other consoles. The question is whether or not the issue was purely computing or if there has been creative stagnation with all the main talent going to the big boys (processing-wise).

I think the WiiU has the ability to put out completely graphically pleasing games. They won't be as complex as the ps4 or 720, but looking at the finest and most polished games of this generation gives me a lot of hope that the WiiU can continue to be relavent even on the lines or realistic games if they just get the 3rd party backing. However, judging from the reception of the WiiU and it's deplorable sales, something will have to change and fast. It will benefit them to put out a lot of games that rely more on artistic license than realistic graphics. I hope they go more that route because they're one of the best at that.

 

[Lightknight]

Which I guess is why they're publishing The Wonderful 101 by Platinum. Sure it's got a number in the title, but it's an original game that isn't part of any established series. I guess that's why they let Game Freak develop Harmo Knight, why they let Intelligent Systems develop Pushmo and Crashmo, why the best selling series on Wii was Wii Sports, and why their handheld teams have been coming up with things like Brain Training, Flip Note and Nintendogs.

I mean, look at all those Mario sequels I just mentioned right there.

And apparently won't even register when new games do come out, so I kind of feel Nintendo is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Please note that my response to your post can be found here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.407083-Whats-with-the-extreme-Nintendo-Hate?page=4#16976310

My argument isn't that they have created nothing. It's that they've created very little by comparison with respect to the competition. My response to Wonderful 101 is that you are citing a game which is not out yet. Jumping the gun there.

Before Super Mario Galaxy came out, could you have predicted everything Nintendo were going to do with that game? Could you have predicted that Nintendo were going to turn 3D platforming on its head by revolving the gameplay around planetoids with their own gravity? I doubt it. I highly doubt it. So why assume the same about the next Mario? The 3D Mario games have proven time and again to be some of the most unpredictable games out there. Nintendo followed up 64 with a game where Mario blasts pollution with a water cannon, then followed that up with a game where he jumps his way round the galaxy. What makes you think they won't do something just as leftfield next?

Doing new things with old IPs does not a new IP make. Why did it have to be Mario? Why not some new character with a different background? Why does it have to be Mario Saving a princess and/or collecting stars? Why make it partially new?

So dropping out of the graphics arms race and making a console that used motion controls was stagnation, was it? Integrating a touchscreen into a regular controller isn't creative?

? I'm afraid you missed my point. Do you think that hardware innovation equates to game innovation? I mean, in this scenario it did produce the Wii-sports games that rely exclusively on the hardware but I'm really just riding Nintendo for their IPs, not hardware. It would be dumb of anyone to say they aren't being innovative hardware-wise. They changed everything and are likely the sole reason for why the PS Move and Xbox Kinect exist.

That's actually bollocks. The only reason Nintendo don't go all in with hardware like the other two is because in order to sell tech-heavy consoles at a reasonable price, you have to take a huge loss on the hardware.

Really? That's the only reason? I assume you have some kind of cosy inside Nintendo source claiming that there were no other major contributing factors to this. By all means, cite your references. Please note that I also dealt with this in my next post to them as an additional reason.

The other two companies have got other divisions to subsidise them on this. And in case you hadn't noticed, going all in with expensive tech didn't end up doing much good for Sony. They lost all the money they made on the PS2, they lost marketshare, and their financials are now looking very, very shaky. If that's an example of what you think Nintendo should have done, then I'm just glad they didn't.

Yep, as I stated in my previous post. Sony made a significant number of mistakes, not the least of which was the hardware choices.

The Wii U isn't current gen. Even the most cursory glances at the GPU have shown that it's a more modern, more efficient design than current gen consoles. Pretty much everything inside the Wii U is completely custom, meaning you can't compare it to off the shelf components. By all accounts, Retro is working on some major eye candy for the console, and at the very least the likes of Trine 2: Director's Cut and NFS Most Wanted U have shown that it's a console with a lot more power and RAM than what the current HD twins have to offer. We're going to have to wait and see what Nintendo has got prepared up its sleeve before we know any more than that.

The Wii U is the most powerful machine of this generation. You can't compare the hardware from any console to off the shelf components because consoles optimize in ways pcs can't.

One thing the Wii U isn't, and this is for sure, is next gen capable. But here's the thing. Look at what is being pumped out towards the end of this generation. The games being made, like Skyrim, are amazing. Saying that the WiiU is more capable than the ps3 and 360 is no small thing and by no means implies crappy looking games. I mean heck, as of this generation I can still play games from 2005 like bioshock without my eyes bleeding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U#Technical_specifications

We know that of the 2GB of RAM, 1GB is dedicated to the OS. We know that hte CPU is clocked at 1.24 GHz and we know what the GPU is clocked at 550 MHz through testing them. Even allowing for a very WIDE range of interpretation of the components, this puts the machine solidly above current gen machines but below next gen machines. Something like a 7.5 generation machine.

So yeah, I can concede that it's unfair to call the WiiU current gen whereas it is understood that we're still in the 7th generation of machines, but I don't think it's being honest to say it's on par with the specs already released for the ps4 if those prove to be true. Either way, I can absolutely verify that just as serious eye candy can be made on current gen machines then serious eye candy should be easily made for the WiiU.

And what about Sony? They've been posting losses for years now. Again, if you're arguing Nintendo should follow Sony's model of expensive tech, then you'll have to explain to me how Nintendo will avoid the pitfall of losing billions of dollars in R&D costs and selling under price.

Not talking hardware. Nintendo did the best they could with what they had. If they weather the storm to the point that the next gen hardware becomes affordable then IP content and media features will be the only deciding factors. (in other words, things can only look so good).

And what about when the PS4 and Nextbox roll around? They will also be starting with a user base of 0. Do you not think the fact that so many titles are being released for next-gen consoles and PS3/360 is something to be worried about? Why are people going to buy any of those new consoles when so many of their

The problem isn't that it's new, the problem is that its sales have stagnated. Forecasting for the system by developers will not favor it. I'd say the ps4 already has some very serious titles promised and WiiU has stumbled in the delivery of what they've promised AND the WiiU's titles are not as impressive as the ps4's. Then again, the ps4 can always falter too. I think the next generation is Sony's to lose at this point. If they haven't learned from their silly mistakes on the ps3 then they deserve to be conquered. So far, with the decisions they're making, from the quality of the tech to the standardization of their hardware it looks like they're making the tough choices.

I doubt it, given that the platform physics are way too floaty and imprecise to ever be in a Nintendo platformer.

The spirit of the game, friend. The magical and campy nature of it smacks of some of my favorite Nintendo titles.

 

[Saviordd1]

Things like the huge dry period, hardware problems, loading times, long updates and the ilk are legitimate complaints and should be discussed.

And that's what we dislike? And then some?

Sorta answered your own question.

 

[MetalDooley]

I'm not 100% sure if you are disaggreeing with my point or just trying to prove my point with this list. I went ahead and visited the wiki and metacritic site to research these obscure titles. The majority of those games hit 75 metacritic or lower (with Flingsmash dipping into the 40s). One game you listed, Captain Rainbow, only sold a whopping 23k copies to date. Several were JP only or DS only titles which don't generally mean major IP releases. A few were also old IPs that they were revisiting like Fortune Street which has been around since 1991 and was available on the Playstation consoles since. Many of the 70 scores are basic puzzle games and are by no means the kind of games hardcore gamers like myself are talking about. We're talking about the Marios, Zeldas, Halos, inFamous, Heavy Rains and all the other IPs that stick with us. We don't buy a system because they have great puzzle games. We get those on our phones now, for free or cheap. Hell, I just purchased and played "The Room". I strongly recommend it if these are the games you're somehow touting as new IPs that Nintendo put legitimate resources behind. These are (mostly) not good games.

Whether those games I listed are any good or not is utterly irrelevant.You claimed that Nintendo don't release anything that's not a sequel or part of a well known franchise.I gave you a list of Nintendo developed/published titles from the last 7 years that are either brand new IPs or obscure franchises that proves your claim to be nonsense

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Gunpo Yokoi. The man behind the Game&Watch, the Gameboy and the D-pad. His idea of using older technology in a lateral way has become a key philosophy at Nintendo, as it allows them to compete in the market without having to go bust trying to stay up-to-date with the latest hardware. In Japanese terms, the idea is known as Lateral Thinking With Withered Technology. It's the reason why the Gameboy beat all its competitors, why the DS beat the PSP, why the Wii beat the PS360, and why the 3DS is currently clobbering the Vita.

God, Yokoi's strategy should be stamped on a plaque in every development office in the world. Seriously, why do developers not understand that they should be thinking laterally? All they do is the idiotic and self-destructive brute force method which is starting to bite people in the ass big time.

 

[McMarbles]

I've been wondering how we define "New IP from Nintendo". Xenoblade Chronicle, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Fluidity, Pushmo, Dillon's Rolling Western, Artstyle, Endless Ocean, Freakyforms, Harmoknight, Sakura Samurai don't count.

Because they are not the hardcores? Because there were not the direct brainchild of Miyamoto? They don't count. For some reason.

They don't count because if they DID count, someone might actually have to admit they were WRONG. Andwe can't have that, can we?

 

[xaszatm]

Things like the huge dry period, hardware problems, loading times, long updates and the ilk are legitimate complaints and should be discussed.

And that's what we dislike? And then some?

Sorta answered your own question.

But the question isn't about dislike though. I understand why some people might dislike Nintendo. But what I don't understand is the hate. People act as if Nintendo can do no right and deserve nothing less then complete destruction. That I don't get.

 

[xaszatm]

Would a new IP have sold over 10 million copies? No. New original games simply don't sell as much. Nintendo made a legitimately awesome platformer, it sold spectacularly well. What does it matter to you that it so happened to star Mario?

I don't know. Games like Trine and Super Meat Boy do show that there is a market for platformers with different characters. I think that the real reason why Nintendo doesn't show a platformer with a new character is because everyone will compare it to some obscure old game and complain that they didn't make that version. Of course, I'm just speculating but seeing the responses here don't hurt it.

Gunpo Yokoi. The man behind the Game&Watch, the Gameboy and the D-pad. His idea of using older technology in a lateral way has become a key philosophy at Nintendo, as it allows them to compete in the market without having to go bust trying to stay up-to-date with the latest hardware. In Japanese terms, the idea is known as Lateral Thinking With Withered Technology. It's the reason why the Gameboy beat all its competitors, why the DS beat the PSP, why the Wii beat the PS360, and why the 3DS is currently clobbering the Vita.

Wow, I didn't know this. Thanks for sharing this interesting information. If one company is doing this, then at least gaming becomes more interesting.

[ The problem isn't that it's new, the problem is that its sales have stagnated. Forecasting for the system by developers will not favor it. I'd say the ps4 already has some very serious titles promised and WiiU has stumbled in the delivery of what they've promised AND the WiiU's titles are not as impressive as the ps4's.

The Wii U's managed to just about stay level with the 6 month sales of the PS3 and 360 despite not having had any major releases out for it yet. When games like Zelda, Mario, Smash Bros and what ever else IPs Nintendo is currently working on are released (Star Fox, F-Zero, Kirby, Wii Fit U, etc), sales are going to pick up dramatically. Nintendo's been hinting pretty heavily that they're arranging their releases to have a packed second half to 2013. If they do that, then the PS4 and Nextbox won't have to compete with the Wii U having a 3.4 million lead. They'll have to compete with the Wii U having a 10 million lead.

Um, isn't this just speculation right just now? While I do hope that Nintendo has a heavily packed second term, there can be much that happens between then and now that results in another dry spell like the one happening right now. Granted, with Nintendo rather than other third parties on the job this has a lower chance of happening, it's still possible.

Also, why are we saying that we have the sales of the PS3 and Xbox 360 of the first six months as a good thing? Didn't both of those consoles sold poorly during this time? Like, the PS3's exclusives were all mediocre 3rd party support so why are we considering this good?

 

[charlesmagne]

There repackaging the same mothafuckin games for like what ?, 20 years,Mario , Zelda, etc.., do somethong else freakin retards.