What's Wrong With Communism?

[Manbro]

True Socialism/Communism is a noble idea I think. But it can never be applied to real world life because it is usually tainted by corrupt governments. America would do well to adopt a bit less of an intensely capitilistic stance though. A better healthcare system would benefit everyone greatly, however at the moment it's only for those who can afford it.

 

[gxs]

We had comunism and we had free health care. We still have free health care but we don't have a comunist country anymore.

The problem is that the ideal is ok but you'll always get people that will be on the top and have everything and the people that won't be in the correct group and hence won't have anything.

And even if we somehow solve this you find yourself in a set of problems:

1. The problem that our country had was that too many people had everything so the country didn't have money and fell into debt with other countryes because it had to borrow money to build houses, roads, etc... for the people that were in need for them. And since they received the houses for free (or a nominal fee) the country was making a loss.

2. Every person had a right to work so you had one machine for ten workers. One worker actually worked and other nine were what we call latently employed or in short were receiving the same salary for no work. The company wasn't making profit so the country helped the company and we're back on issue no. 1

 

[SimpleChimp]

Communism on paper is the best form of government.

But they forgot to factor in the human evident.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Their is nothing more true when talking about communism. The fall of the communist nation is like when Stalin took Russia, and is even evident in Kim Jong Il.

The fall of communism is also the reason Monarchies fail. One leader could be amazing, but not ever one is an Augustus. The sheer fact that naturally a human looks out for his own interest leaves every ruler with the ability to become corrupt and destroy his nation.

 

[Warped Pixel]

Well communism doesn't work. I don't see why the wealth should be shared. Why should a doctor get the same amount of money as a cleaner? Also it says that everyone is equal, but there are always people more equal than others. Also who is going to distribute the wealth? All it takes is one person to bring that system to fail.

So we agree on that. *I said the same thing on page 1*

 

[Roamin11]

That you need a hundred years of war to achieve a perfect communist society and I don't think I really want to fight for a hundred years; My children's children won't even get to live in a perfect communist society.

 

[SimpleChimp]

True Socialism/Communism is a noble idea I think. But it can never be applied to real world life because it is usually tainted by corrupt governments. America would do well to adopt a bit less of an intensely capitilistic stance though. A better healthcare system would benefit everyone greatly, however at the moment it's only for those who can afford it.

I strongly disagree with this. American's are would not react well to an increase in taxes, especially when the nation is divided by their views on illegal immigrants. I fear that the change could lead to severe civil unrest. Especial after Obama has been pitching money to failing businesses like Bush pitched balls at yankee stadium.

 

[SimpleChimp]

Well communism doesn't work. I don't see why the wealth should be shared. Why should a doctor get the same amount of money as a cleaner? Also it says that everyone is equal, but there are always people more equal than others. Also who is going to distribute the wealth? All it takes is one person to bring that system to fail.

So we agree on that. *I said the same thing on page 1*

Another criticism of communism is the fact that once every one gets equal pay no matter how hard they work, then soon the workers slack off. Or the ones that are achieving resent the ones that are not doing any work.

 

[Halfbreed13]

it is impossible for everyone to be equal because all people are different, and communists have realized this so there is a general class and a ruling class this creates discontent and jealousy among the general class. also communists are generally fucking crazy like north korea

No. They aren't fucking crazy like north korea. Korea runs under a system in which the people are forced to believe Kim Jong Il is god. That's not communism. That's dictatorial rule as a god-human.

That sounds like a lot of fun actually.

..and there would be mandatory deathmatches for the olympics...
hee

That is asinine

No, you are asinine.
And I am high.

Off topic: What the fuck? I leave for a week or two and FIVE PEOPLE jack my avatar. I am the motherfucking hailer of the Crimson King! Back off!

 

[DrunkWithPower]

Too many Americans are afraid of it.
AND, others believe that Obama will make America a communistic society.
But, i see no problem in this. Communism is a great idea if a country already has a stable economy, and hey, free healthcare would be great. It's a great idea it's just been used wrong.

So really, what's wrong with Communism?

If your rich, you fear communism. America becons to the rich. Plus, the has been no true communist state, only broken communism.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

It looks good on paper, but the main problem is it doesn't actually work. Lack of competition and equal pay no matter the amount of work done means that most people will lose the will to preform their professions well. As a result trade and production would decrease and the country's economy would deteriorate which would directly effect the citizens in it because the government pays everyone equally. this results in a country in which the whole population is below the poverty line, and last I checked that means you're doing something wrong.

 

[Knight Templar]

it is impossible for everyone to be equal because all people are different, and communists have realized this so there is a general class and a ruling class this creates discontent and jealousy among the general class. also communists are generally fucking crazy like north korea

No. They aren't fucking crazy like north korea. Korea runs under a system in which the people are forced to believe Kim Jong Il is god. That's not communism. That's dictatorial rule as a god-human.

The Republic of North Korea claims to be a communist nation, but in truth operates more like an asian dynasty.

I think that's just a little funny.

 

[lostclause]

Off topic: What the fuck? I leave for a week or two and FIVE PEOPLE jack my avatar. I am the motherfucking hailer of the Crimson King! Back off!

This is communism, that avatar belongs to the people!

 

[red the fister]

If you had read the Communist manifesto instead of just listening to anti-commie propaganda you would know you could do all those things.

But how? Everything has to be shared equally... how can anyone be an individual in that situation if all is equal? That is what confuses me on the subject.

*snipped for relevance to my point*

Your individuality remains intact, and you can do as you wish, so long as everyone is equal (not the same, just equal).

dude, what is heavier a ton of Feathers or a ton of Depleted Uranium Anti-tank rounds?

a ton of feathers in reality has the same weight as the ton of Depleted Uranium Anti-tank rounds.

thusly, as ton is = to a ton, is the "same" as Same = Equal

unless you mean, A = b where the value of A is 5 and the value of b is -(-5)

ya see kids, Algebra even has it's use here in the forum.

 

[Brett Alex]

Because, like Anarchy, it doesn't fucking work.

Nestor Mahkno would like to disagree with you. Seeing as he was an Anarcho-Communist, he'd actually like to disagree with you twice.

 

[Halfbreed13]

Off topic: What the fuck? I leave for a week or two and FIVE PEOPLE jack my avatar. I am the motherfucking hailer of the Crimson King! Back off!

This is communism, that avatar belongs to the people!

In Soviet Russia, Sai thanks you!

 

[Nemorov]

If you had read the Communist manifesto instead of just listening to anti-commie propaganda you would know you could do all those things.

But how? Everything has to be shared equally... how can anyone be an individual in that situation if all is equal? That is what confuses me on the subject.

That's where the American anti-communist propaganda shows it's ugly head.

You fear having your individuality taken away by a communist government.

But that's not what communism does.

It's not "Make everyone the same", it's "Make no one better than anyone else".

Your individuality remains intact, and you can do as you wish, so long as everyone is equal (not the same, just equal).

Finally, it's the perfect system on paper, but in practice it doesn't work as well as it should.

Just like every other political schema in history.

Oh, I'm definitely not saying that anything else has worked. Hobbled along maybe, but never worked. Class systems are unfair. This is very true. We're all thinking, feeling human beings, are we not? But how do we solve this and not create massive, massive problems for us and the generations directly ahead of us?

And being able to say, think and do (within reason) what I like to is something that I fear for even in the society I live in (wow... maybe I should go get a tinfoil hat... I just reread that XD) If such a system could preserve this and still have such a perfect equality, then it really would the perfect one. However, like you said, the problem lies in the fact that no one has figured out exactly how to go about this when implemented, and I add, without somebody messing it up for everyone else. I suppose the most unnerving part is temporarily giving the responsibility and power to the government on the good faith that they'll give it back when the time comes to do so. That is the biggest issue here. It would need to be figured out how to directly transfer the power, and it's almost ludicrous to think that people are ready for that.

I was linked a summary of the Manifesto by the guy I quoted, and I still need to look into the full text further before I make more of an argument.

 

[dalek sec]

Good on paper but it sucks in the real world. Also Liberty Prime would hunt our asses down.

 

[Agema]

I think Communism has more teeth than people here think, and doesn't rely on everyone being nice. Nor does it mean everyone earning the same.

Communism advocates progressive, graded taxation. This means people still have different incomes, it's just that after tax the difference will be smaller. For instance, in today's Western society a top executive of a huge multinational can easily earn in a year 100 times as much as the company average, before and after tax. The same executive in the same job might still earn that much more in Communism, it's just that after tax it might only be 10 times as much as the average employee. That executive is still going to be much richer than most people.

Also, ownership by the workers inherently changes the power structure of industry. You've got people who own business, people who work for and run business, and people who just work for business. The owners are the people with the ultimate power. In capitalism, there's a lot of crossover between those who own and those who run business, which means it's simple for them to pay themselves huge salaries. However, in socialism, the owners are the workers as a whole, which means payment is ultimately decided by the entire workforce. Consequently, anyone who wants to be greedy is going to have to persuade everyone who works for the company to let them be paid that much. I'm sure the workers collectively will understand value and pay more difficult, dangerous and important jobs more, but I doubt they'll let anyone be paid a huge amount.