I'm personally quite fond of the "New Who" including the 9th/10th/11th Doctors. I'd like to get into the older series... but I'm also lazy.
What's wrong with the new Doctor Who?
- Thread starter ThePS1Fan
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Well that's where I start having problems, a Time Lord's regenerations are stored as individual 'lives' rather than as a vast pool of life and regeneration can be triggered at will. Even if we were to accept that regenerations are based on a vast pool of life, rather than individual 'lives', that life is not made of Psychic energy, but the same kind of time-based energy that fuels the TARDIS. Time Lords have never exhibited the ability to convert raw psychic energy into time energy.TimeLord said:
Hell they even used this concept with the Dalek in Van Statten's museum and then again with the Genesis Ark, the Dalek being revitalised by the energy and the Genesis Ark being activated by it. Am I asking too much for the new series to even take into account any of the pre-existing lore? Then again, I doubt they'll stop at the 12th regeneration if it's still popular.
I hesitate to point this out but you realise they've already buried the 13 lives thing and a Time Lord can regenerate almost an unlimited number of times unless outright killed?Azure-Supernova said:
I'm not a complete expert on the older series but I don't recall regeneration being described as either individual lives or a pool of lives. And regeneration has never been an at will thing as far as a can tell. It can be delayed and put off for as long as possible and can even outright refuse like the Master did, showing that it is a conscious choice to stop. But every regeneration I know of has been triggered by death/near death situations, 9's cells were dying from the energy of the Vortex, I think it's reasonable to assume he held off until Rose woke up so she would have some understanding of what happened. 10 obviously held off to say goodbye to his companions before finally letting it happen. River regenerated because she was dying as a kid and then because she was shot as Mel. The Master regenerated on Utopia when shot but refused on Earth. The Doctor has always stated his age as a culmination of all his regenerations. I dont think he's ever said "This life is X years old". Despite him probably not truly knowing how old he is (an assumption created based on the inconsistencies of his previous lives giving different answers whenever asked) so maybe regenerations are part of a Time Lord's pool of life.
The Master said himself "What would happen if I suspended your capacity to regenerate" before turning the Doctor into Golum. 11 stated that the Time Lord's abilities, regeneration and sensitivity to the Time Vortex came from thousands of years of exposure to the Time Vortex (presumably to do with the Untempered Schism on Gallifrey) so it's a gradual genetic DNA change when they were evolving.
I don't think the Van Statten Dalek and Genesis Ark are the same things. The last Dalek used Rose's DNA to repair itself (somehow, either way it wasn't Time Lord tech). The Genesis Ark is a Time Lord creation that can only be opened by "the one thing a Dalek can't do; touch"
You're making an assumption that 10 turned the psychic energy from the Archangel Network into "time energy" to heal himself, but considering that the Master did the opposite by altering 10's DNA to suspend his capacity to regenerate using a handheld screwdriver, I'm not sure what your point is.
I think the old series said that it was enforced by Time Lord law, and the council of Time Lords once granted the Master his lives back, in exchange for helping them find the Doctor. Now that the Time Lords are gone, I don't think there's anything stopping the Doctor regenerating again.TimeLord said:
Then again, I only watched a few old series episodes, but one of the ones I saw was the Five Doctors, and it was discussed there.
Yeah I think that kinda ties in with the who "Time Lord Victorious" idea that 10 went with in 'Waters Of Mars' when he kinda went a bit nuts and realised he was following the rules of his people when he was enforcing his own rules basically and thought he could go nuts and change time to what he wanted. Obviously he was wrong but it makes the point that the Time Lords did create a lot of the rules and regulations to govern Time Travel. Including maybe the 13 lives thing to basically keep their population in check.redisforever said:
Infact, the TARDIS wiki states that Rassilon created the regeneration process for the "Gallifreyan Elite", but imputed the parameter of twelve regeneration cycles to "avoid decaying biogenic molecules" (BFA: Zagreus). This makes sense when the Master asks for more regenerations on his 13th life his body is decaying due to being near the end of it's life. With Rassilon dead it makes sense to assume that the limit is no more. However what consequences that will have the Doctor are obviously unforeseen as of yet.
In War Games the Second Doctor's regeneration is forced by The Time Lords without any life threatening elements, he even laments as his regeneration happens with no regard to his own will. However I wasn't aware that the 12 cycle limit was revoked, when was that? As far as I was aware it was introduced because of the risk of depreciation and integrity of Gallifreyan DNA, Omega said as much when Rassilion initially proposed they simply make Time Lords immortal. The energy would be there, but the biological bodies would decay.TimeLord said:
Earlier episodes state that Rassilion introduced regeneration to the Time Lords, just as he did their ability to remain fixed in time and space, as this wasn't a native trait to all Gallifreyans. It's only ever been mentioned by the man himself and Omega, so it's unlikely that any of the Time Lords knew the true source of their abilities and could only guess.TimeLord said:
As a result I don't think that the '12 regenerations' is so much a Time Lord rule as it is a limitation imposed by Rassilion.
The energy that powers the Sonic Screwdriver, TARDIS, Laser Screwdriver, the Genesis Ark and presumably a lot of other Gallifreyan technology is the same energy that Daleks adapted to use during the the Time War. I'm sure if you go gallavanting around the internet you'll eventually find a name for the stuff, but it was named in the radio series I'm sure.TimeLord said:
Either way it's that very energy that the last Dalek extracted from Rose's DNA, with her having travelled with the Doctor in the TARDIS she had built up enough to power the Dalek. The very same energy is transferred by Mickey when he touches the Genesis Ark.
The point is that the Master incorporated Lazarus' aging technology into his Laser Screwdriver and then reverse engineered it to age the Doctor. It's possible that the technology the Master used to suspend the Doctor's regenerative abilities was similar to the technology used by The Time Lords to manipulate other Time Lords regenerations.TimeLord said:
I don't like the show, period. It's neither future fantasy nor hard science fiction. It's half arsed, and my Star Trek spoiled arse keeps calling the science out on bullshit.
BUT, and this is a huge but.
Tennant made the show for me. In general, any show with laughs can get me, and Tennant provided the most. Smith provides less, while the writing is even more bullshitty, ultimately resulting in more hate from me. I still enjoy it, but not as much as I did in Eccleston-Tennant times.
BUT, and this is a huge but.
Tennant made the show for me. In general, any show with laughs can get me, and Tennant provided the most. Smith provides less, while the writing is even more bullshitty, ultimately resulting in more hate from me. I still enjoy it, but not as much as I did in Eccleston-Tennant times.
Yeah I'd known about the Time Lords creating the 12 cycle limit (see above your post) and while I think that is the most likely canon explanation there are still conflicting explanations from other episodes too.Azure-Supernova said:
From TARDIS Wiki;
Artron Energy [http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Artron_energy] powers TARDISes and the last piece of Artron energy in the universes exists in the heart of the Doctor's TARDIS. This is not a finite energy source since we've obviously seen the TARDIS refuelling due to the lack of the Eye Of Harmony. Screwdrivers aren't powered by Artron Energy and have their own power sources.
But why would the Daleks create an energy source to rejuvenate themselves that requires touch? It doesn't make sence for them to have used that specific technology for themselves
EDIT: Oh and the limit was removed in a conversation between Smith's Doctor and Luke from the Sarah Jane Adventures. Luke specifically asks how many times the Doctor can regenerate and the Doctor replies that there is no limit.
Speaking as someone who appreciates a lot of what RTD and Moffat have done over the series, I'm going to say s6 is where the series really went off the rails. Splitting the seasons (thus building up tension) only to have a completely anti-climactic finale, abandon many plot points
and the way River went from HBIC to someone who
And no, I didn't find the plot convoluted or difficult to follow. I guessed it after the first episode. And yes, I know this involved a younger River. It does not excuse her actions in any form whatsoever. One would think that at her age, she already would have known
is bad. It's not like it's hard to figure out.
Also, Moffat's egotism, sexism, and complete inability to accept criticism, however constructive, for his work hasn't helped in the least. I think he does a better job at Sherlock, for all it's handling of POCs and Irene Adler. I was utterly enchanted with s5 of Doctor Who (and in fact, it's my favorite), and I loved every single one of his episodes from that season as well as previous ones. I just think he either needs to change his game plan or hand the reins over to someone who's capable of that.
(Amy's baby and the after-effects of her imprisonment, aka the Worst Pregnancy Ever being among them),
wrapped her life around the Doctor ("I'm looking for a good man," anyone?) and sold out the universe because she ultimately thought her suffering was worth more than everyone else's ("I'll suffer if I have to kill you. "More than every living thing in the universe?" Yes.")
And no, I didn't find the plot convoluted or difficult to follow. I guessed it after the first episode. And yes, I know this involved a younger River. It does not excuse her actions in any form whatsoever. One would think that at her age, she already would have known
why putting yourself before everyone that ever is, was, or will be
Also, Moffat's egotism, sexism, and complete inability to accept criticism, however constructive, for his work hasn't helped in the least. I think he does a better job at Sherlock, for all it's handling of POCs and Irene Adler. I was utterly enchanted with s5 of Doctor Who (and in fact, it's my favorite), and I loved every single one of his episodes from that season as well as previous ones. I just think he either needs to change his game plan or hand the reins over to someone who's capable of that.
I (sort of) dislike it because;
1. Stephen Moffat is great at building suspense in an episode, but executes the ep. in an absolutely crap manner(see the 2nd feat. James Corden episode).
2. The writers have made the entire universe un-scary(except for the Silence episodes; they were awesome), probably so that the franchise is more family firendly(I'm just nitpicking here, after all, I got into DW when I was only a child, no real problems with that
3.There is absolutely no mention whatsoever of past characters, or any torchwood crossover episodes, no mention to elizabeth sladen(R.I.P.), except in that brief crossover episode in SJA, no more mention of Martha or Donna anymore, and no more re-curring baddies.
4. NOT AS MANY DALEKS D:
1. Stephen Moffat is great at building suspense in an episode, but executes the ep. in an absolutely crap manner(see the 2nd feat. James Corden episode).
2. The writers have made the entire universe un-scary(except for the Silence episodes; they were awesome), probably so that the franchise is more family firendly(I'm just nitpicking here, after all, I got into DW when I was only a child, no real problems with that
3.There is absolutely no mention whatsoever of past characters, or any torchwood crossover episodes, no mention to elizabeth sladen(R.I.P.), except in that brief crossover episode in SJA, no more mention of Martha or Donna anymore, and no more re-curring baddies.
4. NOT AS MANY DALEKS D:
I have only been watching Doctor Who for a month or so now and only finished season 3 of new Who recently, but I have some complaints that I don't mind leveling at the new series.
1)The doctor gets into too many romances. Every female companion has a romantic interest in the doctor. He splits up with the last one, gets a new companion and BAM new romantic interest.
2)The plots can occasionally get very dumb or confusing. Though right now I'm mostly raging at the season 3 finale and wasn't too pleased with Voyage of the Damned either. This is not the case for every episode in the new series, but there are some in there that are not well thought out.
3)I just don't like David Tennant and I have this bizarre feeling from I've seen of the fandom that his run of the Doctor is going to tear the show apart, in that a lot of people started watching the show because of the Tenth Doctor and expect more like him, whereas fans of the classic series are not as thrilled with the Tenth Doctor and want the show to move on. I know I'm ready to start watching the Matt Smith stuff and I'm still working my way through the New Who archives.
Just my thoughts though.
Edit: I forgot, one other thing, there has never been a 2-part episode in the new series (from what I've seen) where both parts were absolutely vital. You either get really extended set up that goes no where so they can justify the awesome second episode that solves everything or you get really interesting set up and then little pay off.
1)The doctor gets into too many romances. Every female companion has a romantic interest in the doctor. He splits up with the last one, gets a new companion and BAM new romantic interest.
2)The plots can occasionally get very dumb or confusing. Though right now I'm mostly raging at the season 3 finale and wasn't too pleased with Voyage of the Damned either. This is not the case for every episode in the new series, but there are some in there that are not well thought out.
3)I just don't like David Tennant and I have this bizarre feeling from I've seen of the fandom that his run of the Doctor is going to tear the show apart, in that a lot of people started watching the show because of the Tenth Doctor and expect more like him, whereas fans of the classic series are not as thrilled with the Tenth Doctor and want the show to move on. I know I'm ready to start watching the Matt Smith stuff and I'm still working my way through the New Who archives.
Just my thoughts though.
Edit: I forgot, one other thing, there has never been a 2-part episode in the new series (from what I've seen) where both parts were absolutely vital. You either get really extended set up that goes no where so they can justify the awesome second episode that solves everything or you get really interesting set up and then little pay off.
A quick look over at the Laser Screwdrivers page claims that it runs on Artron energy, though I can't vouch for the accuracy of the article. But from the sounds of it the TARDIS used the energy it gathered from places like the Cardiff Rift to store and refine into Artron energy. It also seems to linger in Time Travellers like the void stuff did.TimeLord said:
I don't know, I didn't write the series. Though with as little information we have on Gallifreyan technology and the Dalek's methods of extracting it, it's not a stretch to speculate that they could use their manipulator to extract it. As for why they used it? Well Time Lords use it to regenerate and it's possible it was abundant on Gallifrey and Arcadia.TimeLord said:
As before it's entirely possible that the Doctor isn't aware of this limit, though I should imagine with how popular the revival was that it has been scrapped from the canon.TimeLord said:
I like then new Doctor Who, up until the series 5 finale, that finale was utter crap, and most everything since then has been crap.ThePS1Fan said:
I positively hate Amy and Rory, because since they've become full companions together in the TARDIS, the writers have practically made them the top main characters in the show. There are actually several episodes that if they didn't tie The Doctor for most time on screen, they had more time on screen them him. The show is called Doctor Who, not "Amy and Rory faffing about while looking and sounding like idiots".
I also don't like that they totally ruined River Song as a character, she was actually interesting in the Silence in the Library two parter back with Tennant, but they messed up her character by making her the daughter of Amy and Rory, by creating that bullshit precedent that making love in the TARDIS creates a Time Lord baby. It would have made more sense and been much better, if the had to have River Song be a Time Lord, they should have made her out to be some old Time Lord from The Doctor's past, or just one that he hadn't met before.
I was actually jumping for joy when I heard Moffat reveal that either Amy or Rory will be killed in one of the next series episodes, and that they wouldn't be coming back. I'm seriously hoping they change it a bit and off both of them so that neither of them can come back.
It feels off for good reason. Stories in Doctor Who, have always in some way been mostly about The Doctor, about the strange and mysteriousness of The Doctor and how he solves problems. More an more since Series 5 started, the show hasn't been about The Doctor, but has been about Amy and Rory, and River Song and her insanely stupid origin story.somonels said:
It doesn't fit that the Doctor wouldn't know. He stopped the Master when he tried to gain a new cycle of regenerations from the Eye Of Harmoney (The Deadly Assassin). So he must of been aware that the Master's body was dying due to him being on his 13th form.Azure-Supernova said:
The Doctor never states that the background radiation is Artron Energy. He specifically tells Donna in 'The Runaway Bride' that his TARDIS holds the last particle of Artron energy in the universe and that the stuff that Donna had in her was a alien made liquid form and not pure Artron energy. Since he says this literally one episode after he goes on about the background radiation sucking the Daleks, Cybermen Doctor and Rose into the void (Doomsday) I doubt they are one and the same.
EDIT: Of course a lot of this is speculation. But speculation is cool.
They would have to scrap it somehow, because it is established canon. The Doctor does know about the limit, because he mentions it in that movie from 1996.Azure-Supernova said:
My favourite doctor is Tennant, but I quite like Matt Smith too. I was sceptical before I saw the first episode with him in it and then pleasantly surprised once I'd seen it. It's more that I don't like where Steven Moffat is taking the series; for example the new Daleks are shit and look like Super Morphin Power Rangers, all plastic and bright colours. Bleh.
I have enjoyed episodes that Steve Moffat has done - "Blink" is a favourite - but having him in charge of the entire series was IMO a bit of a mistake.
I have enjoyed episodes that Steve Moffat has done - "Blink" is a favourite - but having him in charge of the entire series was IMO a bit of a mistake.