What's Your Opinion of Occupy?

[Zhukov]

Don't have a problem with the notion, but I doubt the effectiveness of their methods.

 

[djs.specs]

While I agree with some of their ideals (only some of them though, the rest are just bulldurry) their execution is poor. Squatting on and, in some cases, destroying public land is not a way to encourage the voting public that you've got 'good ideas'. And those are the people you need behind you if you want change.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Time to throw rocks at the proverbial hornet's nest...and I hate stinging insects. Especially wasps.

I feel it's a movement that's misunderstood mostly because it refuses to explain what it's all about to the (loud) people demanding answers.

It is very refreshing to see more people on the escapist that take my point of view. The system we live in is beyond broken, it needs to be changed.

Now for something I've never done before: a double-inquiry to a nested quotation.

Let me put on my 1930s reporter's hat...*ahem*
"If given the opportunity and power to do so, how would you change things?"

To date, not ONE OCCUPY protester has been able to answer me that clearly.
I admit, it's something of a personal question, but is there a definitive answer?
Or is the protest little more than a very extended picnic in the park?

 

[DaJoW]

Good message, good that someone tries to do something, in the end will lead to nothing and the whole hand-waving thing they do really paint them as hippies/kindergarteners. The time they had two representatives on The Colbert Report was just ridiculous, one choosing to be called Ketchup to protect her identity.

 

[Kimarous]

Heck, one of my friends dressed up as a Occupier for Halloween

Spoiler

So very true! XD

I admit, I haven't really been following the whole "Occupy" thing, but I know a bit about the local protests. About 75% of the so-called protesters are just bums from the street, and about half of those are homeless by choice. I didn't hear the entire clip, but I recall a local TV station mentioning how their squatting is wasting tax dollars, which seems rather detrimental to whatever they are trying to protest against.

The most concrete I've ever gotten, such as it is, was talking to a college classmate who was in support of the Occupy movement, although not a squatter himself. I asked him what exactly their motives were and what they were trying to accomplish. He said, quote, "Do you know the problems of today?" ("For the sake of argument, let's say I do.") "Then you know." My reaction: "THAT'S NOT AN ANSWER!" We went back and forth in a similar manner for a few minutes until class started, after which I've ignored the guy because he obviously doesn't know himself. If he really knew, then why wouldn't he be concise about it?

 

[Aprilgold]

The people and movement are ridiculous. The majority sound like spoiled rich kids and idiots who either never read the fine print line or insisted on living out of their means. Both of which I have absolutely no pity for.

A bunch of self-entitled hipsters that don't actually know what they are talking about, but are rather upset about it. The real problem is that they are occupying Wall Street when Wall Street can't fix the economy (or socioeconomic tiers that are a part of pretty much all society) any more than the protesters can.

The occupy movement is a sad confirmation of the dismal expectations I had for my generation. Moral subjectivity in the form of "whatever you want is true for you" and "everyone's opinion matters" is a road that leads to nothing.

Writers in past ages have analyzed the corrupting influence of wealth on government, they've described/predicted the problems we are in and outlined great solutions. The occupiers don't read these books, because they are lazy and use the excuse that all ideas are equally true / deserve equal weight to justify their laziness. Reading books is hard, it's easier to believe that ideas pulled out of their uneducated asses are just as good.

Actually, thats ALL wrong. They have no jobs, is the first one. Simply put, the MAN [which in this case is coporations] control such a large amount of wealth and don't put out any jobs. So many people are out of jobs and homeless or even worse because of it. There are not many jobs out there that will hire people, very little will pay well, and mostly fire people off because having a key team of 7 or 8 people working a store is better then 12. If people could get a job and somehow nail it down, its may be better, you probably won't move from your position. And then are stuck back in the lower or maybe middle class if you get lucky.

The problems they are bringing up are legitimate. In America only 5% of people ever change social class (determined by tax bracket, I think). Rich people's kids invariably end up rich, middle-class kids end up middle-class, and poor and impoverished kids end up poor and impoverished, through no fault of their own.

That said, the protesters are just standing around yelling about this stuff. What are they trying to change? How do they think rich people who work hard for their money (I never said they don't work hard, just that working hard doesn't guarantee you success or even ends-meat) are going to fix these problems, even if they wanted to? I don't understand what they hope to accomplish by occupying anything.

They can't really do anything. I bet they don't trust it to hold up in court or in the judicial system for long. All they can really do is sit and wait for it to change. Hell, we have constantly seen our Judicial system swayed towards corporations time and time again. Even happened a few times with the Protect IP act, to where internet professionals wanted to talk about making the bill fair, and were shunned out. Theres so very little you can do that won't be completely changed. Its not the governments fault for not supplying jobs, its business's for not doing so.

 

[EBHughsThe1st]

I'd just like to point out that there's a difference between the majority and the vocal minority. Peace out.

I did say "some of these people", but yeah that is pretty blatant generalization...

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

My main concerns with the Occupy movement is this:

Where I am (Vancouver BC) they recently evicted the Occupy movement from the art gallery grounds. It cost over 500,000 dollars to police it, had multiple fights, a overdose and a death (overdose) a lot of the original protestors left and a lot of homeless moved in mostly to have a free shelter where they could do whatever they wanted. They had to redirect the Santa Claus parade and other events. Many small businesses in the area reported substantial loss of income from people avoiding the area.

When shut down one of the organizers said that "the tent city was the heart of the protest"

It's not. The people are. When the method becomes more important that the message, the protest has failed.

Right now most of the occupy movement is all about the methods. The message is garbled, disjointed and weak. You can get up and say all you want about how screwed up the system is, but if you do nothing to stop it aside from sit in a park, you fail.

There cry of "we are the 99%" is a total lie. Most of the 99% either do not support the occupy movement entirely or support the idea but do not approve of how they act.

Not to mention the severe hypocrisy of many Occupy members. They complain about wealth equality while wearing expensive clothes, and use hundred dollar electronics? They continue to shop at places like Wal-Mart because they have good deals while the mom and pop stores die out. Do I even need to mention stuff like Black Friday?

Occupy at it's true heart is worthy and needed. The current incarnation is corrupted by the theatrics of the organizers who seem to be in it more for personal glory then overall good.

 

[Fearzone]

I support the general idea: that Wall Street is corrupt, Washington is corrupt because of Wall Street, "Too Big to Fail" is bullshit, and a lot of money is being borrowed by the government and misspent to support corrupt interests, whereupon taxpayers will be stuck with paying it all back over many years.

To the degree that the Occupy movement is calling attention to and protesting these realities, I support it. To the degree they are just making a nuisance of themselves, without clear objectives or targets of their protest, or that they simply don't like the fact that government money is being deferred to Wall Street instead of their preferred pork belly interest--I cannot find much cause to back them up.

On the balance, I guess they say: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

 

[Safaia]

My main problem with them is the lack of a clear goal, if members of the group starting petitioning for specific bills to pass or against certain laws then I could get behind them but right now it's just a lot of people yelling "we want things to be better, make it so for us."

I ask every occupy person this. 'You wanted to raise awareness. Okay, we're aware, now what?' and none of them can tell me.

Edit: Also a friend of mine got really drunk and drove by the occupy Denver camp and shouted 'get a job!' which I wished I had video of.

 

[WeAreStevo]

I think the movement is wonderful and needed greatly. As I've said before in other posts, I was actively a participant at Occupy Oakland (perhaps you've heard of it) and I thought that it was amazing. HOWEVER the news loves sensationalism and completely skewed perceptions of what was actually going on there to the point where it was like night and day.

For instance, the area near Frank Okagowa Plaza (sp?) used to be (and now once again is) littered with gang members, drug dealers and local ruffians. TBH I felt safer when Occupy was there as opposed to now. And I was baffled when local shop owners were complaining about the area being "dirty." Anyone who has rode the "Free B" down Broadway knows what I'm talking about. That place is straight sketch no matter whats going on.
Also, the only reason why Quan and her partners in the city counsel had an issue is because it was right in front of where THEY work. When it moved to a park down the street from my apartment, they didn't give a shit for a while because, hey! It's not right in front of us!

Now, as for the actual PEOPLE at the movement: I feel like Occupy is shooting themselves in the foot when they "elect" people to speak to the media. Each person who I hear speak on the news makes me want to facepalm straight through my skull. Wherever they find these jackasses I don't know, but they should instead get some of the people I've talked to who are either hard working, out of work and actively searching or who lost their 401k in the economic meltdown. Instead, they get these goddamn rich Berkeley kids names "Moonbeam shoestring Runningwolf" who talk about returning land to nature and other kumbaya shit that has nothing to do with the core of the movement.

So: Love occupy, but they need better press on both sides.

 

[the_hoffs_ego]

I don't mind the idea. I agree with the basic idea that corporations haven't been accountable enough and I'm glad people decided to exercise their right to protest.

But then there's the actual protest... very poorly done. They had the energy going for them at the beginning, but then it took a turn down crazy street. Every movement is susceptible to that but this one got pretty bad.

 

[Todd Ralph]

The majority sound like spoiled rich kids and idiots who either never read the fine print line or insisted on living out of their means.

If you're not paying attention, that's probably exactly how it sounds.

I'm sorry but I have alot more to worry about than abunch of self righteous idiots who did nothing but make stupid decisions their whole life. Then again actually working for a living probably never occurred to them as they shout and demand the money of people who earned it. I'm sorry if you took out loans to get a worthless degree in art or liberal arts or dance and lack the motivation and determination to put it to good use.

 

[Krion_Vark]

But something we're doing is working, because you see police deployed to "keep the public safe" from us. You can look on YouTube for videos of peaceful protesters being approached and subsequently maced by police for the serious crime of "just sitting there." Why does just sitting in public to protest economic disparity and frustration with a corporate government present a significant danger to anyone, significant enough to warrant such a heavy police presence and such violent reactions? Clearly we're disturbing someone deeply; someone who controls the police perhaps, who isn't so interested in our cause. Napoleon wouldn't have sent in his dogs if he didn't think Snowball was a menace somehow, right?

You should probably learn the tiers of force that the Police use. Mace is right above verbal. and below pulling out the night sticks. If you are told by the police to disperse and refuse then they will mace you its protocol. There isn't anything they can really do because they are going to be reprimanded for not following protocol. If the protests take place on public property and are deemed to disrupt the ability for the public to function they will be asked to disperse and if not they will be maced. These protocols have been in effect for a lot longer than you may think but apparently when it comes to people protesting they are all of a sudden a bad thing.
Do you know how quickly a peaceful protest can become a riot? Because I don't and I hope no one ever finds out.

 

[Zaik]

I saw some of these guys shambling down the sidewalk by the local college looking like a pack of homeless people the other day while I was driving around in circles at work wasting someone elses' gas money.

It's kind of hard to take any of them seriously when they can't even agree on what they're protesting over exactly.

 

[Todd Ralph]

Pretty quick actually in my training it's presence, ask, tell, make, shotgun.
Use your presence to make them comply= passive compliance
Give orders with respect= passive compliance
Tell them what to do = passive resistance
Take downs and use of oc spray and batons= active resistance
Slug shot aimed to disable= any of the 8 requirements for the use of deadly force

In my opinion the cops do what's asked of them and their job

 

[shrub231]

this look like the start of the revolutoin karl marx talked about in his communist manifesto but way less commited