When a friend tells you he "does not agree" with the concept of evolution

[Nimcha]

It is by that logic that I refute Darwin's claim that we are descendant of the chimpanzee.

Ah, there's your mistake. Darwin never claimed that, and for good reason because it's not true. We share an ancestor with the chimpansee, which then at some point split into different species. Over a vast amount of time.

 

[Purple Shrimp]

So when this guy, who is probably the smartest guy I ever met told me he didn't believe that humans are apart of evolution it blew me away. To make things worse he said "there are some things that humans are meant to understand. and we are both Comp-Sci majors so rational thought is a given.

assuming that you actually meant "aren't meant to understand" then I completely agree

Well that's a rather distressingly close-minded way of looking at it. It might have been appropriate back in, say, the Dark Ages, when most of what little we thought we knew was wrong, but science has been advancing by leaps and bounds in recent times. We're learning more about the world around us every day, things that were once written off as the work of God, or beyond human understanding. Thanks to science, we can truly appreciate the beauty and wonder of how the world works, rather than saying "dunno, guess it's cos of God". Why on earth would anyone choose to ignore all of this, refuse to believe things that we do understand, whether we're 'meant to' or not, and instead settle for worshipping their own ignorance?

EDIT: Wait, shouldn't this thread be in the religion section?

i wasn't trying to refer to things that can be more or less objectively proven with science eg evolution, but rather things like the existence of God. I guess the guy the OP was talking about was referring to evolution so I probably shouldn't strictly say I agree with him, but in general I think that there is something more to existence than what can be proven with science

 

[No_Remainders]

When you say "doesn't believe humans are a part of evolution", does that mean he thinks everything else evolves, but humans don't? That's rather odd.

I had a friend say this. He explained that yes he believes in evolution, but the bible said god made us out of dirt and therefore we come from god, not evolution.

I didn't say anything as he was a very close friend at the time.

... If that had happened to me, I'd have just gone all out in an attempt to destroy that person, regardless of how close a friend they were.

Only idiots take the bible that literally, and said idiots are called creationists.

 

[cystemic]

You don't need to believe in evolution to be a decent human being or to be any kind of being for that matter. Completely irrelevant to our existence, our understanding of our existence however is another matter to which we may never attribute any answers. He sounds like a nice guy, I reckon you should just accept it and move on.

 

[Purple Shrimp]

I don't believe in religious creation or intelligent design. I DO however believe that DARWIN'S concept of evolution is pretty much flawed.
It runs of the idea that animals will change due to environments. Yeah we all know this is true, HOWEVER, at what stage does nature change you natural genetic coding. Short answer at no stage I am aware of.
You can make a mutation. You can breed smaller different coloured ect. You can make something LOOK or ACT like a completely different animal geneticly they are the same animal based on different mutations.
And if a kind escapist does know what in nature forces a deep and basic genetic mutation I would very much like to know and reneg on my doubt of Darwin's theory.

We've kinda gotten past Darwin, you know. But what you're objecting to is simply false. Nature changes your genetic coding by selecting for certain traits in breeding and survival. That is, those animals with the genes to survive in certain climates are more likely to survive. Within a species of, say, Elk, for example, this could mean that in the onset of an ice age, the elk with the thicker, warmer fur have better chances of surviving the cold winters, while the elk with less fur die off and therefore cannot pass their genes on. Natural Selection has been understood since well before Darwin, for that matter-not only did ancient human selectively breed for certain traits in livestock, but Gregor Mendel theorized the cause... in 1590.

Seriously, read a science textbook. >.>

why did you remove me as a facebook friend i wasnt trying to be rude

 

[Contradiction]

It is by that logic that I refute Darwin's claim that we are descendant of the chimpanzee.

Ah, there's your mistake. Darwin never claimed that, and for good reason because it's not true. We share an ancestor with the chimpansee, which then at some point split into different species. Over a vast amount of time.

Yeah true... but... The discrepancies in chromosome changes still remain, regardless of whether it was a shared descendant or the chimpanzee directly.

 

[Treaos Serrare]

A few others have said similar but I will say it a bit more plainly, Religion Poisons The Intelligent Mind, Fanciful explanations about a man in the sky making everything you see today possible some ridiculously short time ago. and the "some things we are not meant to know" is the dumbest thing I have heard in my life, and even if you take that line of bullshit, why aren't we meant to? why should we be willfully ignorant of all the information we could have?

Now here's an experiment:
Go get a full body x-ray then com,pare it to our closest ape relatives(chimpanzee, if memory serves) and you will see a lot of similarities in bone structure(obviously some bits would be different but its overall the same) explain that to me in any way that makes the smallest amount of logical sense without evolution.

And every one talking about holes in Evolution Theory, need to wise the fuck up, there are holes because we still don't have the FULL PICTURE we find more and more evidence to support the theory ever few years, what was it back in 09 or so when they found another ape-like creature that was another evolutionary family member to link our species and apes?

 

[k-ossuburb]

When you say "doesn't believe humans are a part of evolution", does that mean he thinks everything else evolves, but humans don't? That's rather odd.

I had a friend say this. He explained that yes he believes in evolution, but the bible said god made us out of dirt and therefore we come from god, not evolution.

I didn't say anything as he was a very close friend at the time.

You could've said "if people came from dirt, why is there still dirt?"

As I've heard the same thing from creationists before except involving monkeys instead of dirt and it sounds just as stupid.

 

[orangeapples]

I don't know because I haven't died yet and scientists have yet to discover a way to attach a tracking device to a soul.

Because scientists, or anyone for that matter, doesn't even know whether a soul exists. Hell, what is a soul anyway?

Also, you say he can do anything, except apparently explain what he/she/it is or why he/she/it does anything. And if he can but doesn't than he's an asshole.

God talks to people, but people don't always listen. The Bible mentions* God talking to the prophets because they listened. God sent Jesus who talked in the modern language and people still didn't listen.

if a regular person is talking to you and you do not listen to them, you will not remember them talking to you. Same goes for God.

just because people don't listen to him, doesn't make God an asshole.

[Edit]
*originally I had used the word 'records' but realize that 'mentions' is a more accurate term.

 

[quantumsoul]

So he believes humans are exempt from evolution? Does he still believe other life forms evolved?

I think holding on to beliefs when good evidence that contradicts it exists is crazy. I know beliefs can be hard to change but an intelligent person should be more willing to change beliefs in favor of facts.

I think a lot of people don't like human evolution because they loose a sense of superiority and that it refutes the existence of god and heaven(I personally don't think it does).

 

[Raynooo]

Yeah true... but... The discrepancies in chromosome changes still remain, regardless of whether it was a shared descendant or the chimpanzee directly.

This here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchicine is a current example of how a toxin can create subspecies with way more chromosomes than their father.

As I've seen in genetics class, most of today's wheat is for example mutants obtained with such toxins (caffeine does that too on a lower scale) so that it has some most of its chromosomes in 4 different copies or even more. This implies among other things that cells and plants will grow bigger than "wild" wheat who only has 2 copies of each.

The thing is the mutated "egg cells" obtained by this method will be of two kind : one with too many copies, one with not enough. The one with too many might be fertile and healthy, obviously the one with not enough is likely to die (or unable to be born actually).

These toxins are 100% natural and can be found in the wild. Every living creature is exposed to toxins and radiation that cause more mutations than simple copy error.
Sometimes these mutations won't work (sterile offspring or unborn ones) sometimes they will. Once again these things happen in millions of years !

 

[adamtm]

When a friend tells you he "does not agree" with the concept of evolution...

first, you say: NO

then

you get out of there!

 

[Cowabungaa]

God talks to people, but people don't always listen. The Bible records God talking to the prophets because they listened. God sent Jesus who talked in the modern language and people still didn't listen.

if a regular person is talking to you and you do not listen to them, you will not remember them talking to you. Same goes for God.

just because people don't listen to him, doesn't make God an asshole.

It's funny that people who usually claim that nowadays are diagnosed with some sort of schizofrenic disorder or something. My aunt works with people like that.

There are people who listen though, obeyed commands to kill people and all that. Well I reckon even God needs underlings for his wetwork.

Oh and by the way, the Bible records fairly little, it tells stories and claims that things happened (saying God talked to people doesn't mean it actually happened), but recording is different.

As I've seen in genetics class, most of today's wheat is for example mutants obtained with such toxins (caffeine does that too on a lower scale)

Spam coffee. Aquire super mutant powers.

To be honest evolution is a difficult idea to really get your head around and see working. Most of the people that support evolution have just taken the idea on faith and if he's got a particularly enquiring mind he'd not be inclined to do that. The OP has taken evolution on faith from teachers that have told him it's true so he's never had to actually face the evidence openly.

Weeeeell partially. I wouldn't say the fact of evolution is hard to understand. The theory that tries to explain it? Yeah, it is.

I think the number of people having a problem with evolution would be a lot lower if it had been called the 'law of evolution' from the start.

Well that's the thing; it ain't. We haven't explained how evolution works yet, we can't describe it nearly as well as, say, basic gravity. Biology is messy business compared to physics.

 

[Purple Shrimp]

What a moron. I'm glad no one else in history ever dared disagree with or challenge the scientific consensus of his/her contemporaries. Otherwise they might have been laughed at in a social forum.

*rolls eyes*

why does everyone always ignore posts like this, 10/10

 

[Raynooo]

Spam coffee. Aquire super mutant powers.

Too bad I don't like coffe, but your superpower is most likely to be colon cancer though. It works well on plants because cancer is apparently not a big concern for them (couldn't say why though).

 

[Raynooo]

What a moron. I'm glad no one else in history ever dared disagree with or challenge the scientific consensus of his/her contemporaries. Otherwise they might have been laughed at in a social forum.

*rolls eyes*

why does everyone always ignore posts like this, 10/10

You can't really compare the two things since you can't really make experiments in history can you ?

Evolution only based on fossils and pictures/drawings of old species would be a pretty weak theory, but we can observe in real time DNA mutations and how "fitter" individuals will be selected in a specie's population when facing an environment change.

 

[fer-]

well, this is a perfect chance for you to practice tolerance and accept his beliefs are different then yours

or you can run to a message board and make out that he is a clueless wonder and feel superior

 

[Contradiction]

Yeah true... but... The discrepancies in chromosome changes still remain, regardless of whether it was a shared descendant or the chimpanzee directly.

This here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchicine is a current example of how a toxin can create subspecies with way more chromosomes than their father.

As I've seen in genetics class, most of today's wheat is for example mutants obtained with such toxins (caffeine does that too on a lower scale) so that it has some most of its chromosomes in 4 different copies or even more. This implies among other things that cells and plants will grow bigger than "wild" wheat who only has 2 copies of each.

The thing is the mutated "egg cells" obtained by this method will be of two kind : one with too many copies, one with not enough. The one with too many might be fertile and healthy, obviously the one with not enough is likely to die (or unable to be born actually).

These toxins are 100% natural and can be found in the wild. Every living creature is exposed to toxins and radiation that cause more mutations than simple copy error.
Sometimes these mutations won't work (sterile offspring or unborn ones) sometimes they will. Once again these things happen in millions of years !

Thanks for the link haven't seen this. Although is it compatible with mammalian reproduction? From my knowledge of the process if there is more than a natural double it won't produce. Interesting point though.