When did "casual" gaming become such a horrible thing?
- Thread starter Sylocat
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1. FPS games are not a fad. Playing from the 1st person is logical and intuitive and is not going anywhere, anytime soon.
2. Yes fanboyism is ugly but you have to be accepting and more tolerant of them, or you are just perpetuating the "us vs. them" ideology that is spewed out on every reputable games orientated webpage there is.
3. Realism = believability. Things looking and acting correctly greatly adds to the sense of immersion in the games world. ie. when things aren't proper, it doesn't feel right. They aren't making admin simulators, realism in games isnt a chore.
I don't like telling people they are wrong but I couldn't see much right with what you said, and it was listed on the main page so...killed a few minutes.
2. Yes fanboyism is ugly but you have to be accepting and more tolerant of them, or you are just perpetuating the "us vs. them" ideology that is spewed out on every reputable games orientated webpage there is.
3. Realism = believability. Things looking and acting correctly greatly adds to the sense of immersion in the games world. ie. when things aren't proper, it doesn't feel right. They aren't making admin simulators, realism in games isnt a chore.
I don't like telling people they are wrong but I couldn't see much right with what you said, and it was listed on the main page so...killed a few minutes.
You may not know where you're going with this, but I agree. Keyboard and mouse work fantastic for 3D movement, but Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles require three buttons and a directional pad.AC10 said:
So, to actually add something here, I don't believe casual games or casual gamers are going to ruin anything for the hardcore elite. So long as low-power devices with screens keep coming to market, anyone can be a casual gamer, even the hardcore elite. Peggle and the iPod are a natural. Hell, Pacman remains popular, virtually unaltered from his arcade days, thanks to cellular phones and mp3 players. Relax, all will be well.
As for FPS, I can't tell the difference between them either, except Portal. I have no idea what the big deal is, and I really don't care.
As for PC vs any console or console vs console, PCs and consoles have their own good points. I know my game will run as advertised if I use a console. I know my game could be vastly improved or modified if I buy the PC version. I call this a tossup.
And as for realism, well, what else are they going to do with all the newfound power new console keep finding? On top of that, how are they going to stay in business without updating the system every once in a while. Realism just seems to be the natural progression of things, and I don't see what can be done about it. Although I can't say I wouldn't mind a nice 2D platforming Megaman 9 (to gap the story between 8 and X, as was supposed to happen ages ago) take up an entire Blu-ray. An 80+ hour platformer would be an interesting change of pace.
TC I think you just walked out of a system war and got confused, Unreal 3 and all these FPS games coming out are BECAUSE of the casual market, the "frat boy" market, and the Wii takes it a step further by making all their games "grandma friendly".
Once again I think you are misunderstanding everything, Unreal Tournament 3 is meant for the casual player [http://spong.com/article/14406/Mark_Rein_Why_Is_Unreal_Tournament_3_Slower_on_PlayStation_3_/?d=200712051702&cb=265] who just wants to look at something pretty and play a "cool people" game with lots of shooting.Sylocat said:
I'll respond to this in three parts...
(1) Why does everyone hve to hate on FPS gamers? I am a real fan of FPS games and, I will admit, some of them are a bit cookie-cutter. But not all FPS games are the same run-and-gun brown, brown, and more brown you describe. Take The Darkness for example. This game was original and inventive. The ending kind of sucked though...
(2) I VERY MUCH agree on this. I hate it how PC gamers think that all console gamers are blithering, mouth-foaming, unitelligent loons. I also hate it when console fans think that all PC gamers are all stuck-up & snobbish. This is a completely unfounded sterotype.
(3) Once again, good point. Realism is nice and all but there's a line sometimes. Developers are sometimes to busy trying to make their AK-47 photo-realistic to MAKE THE GAME FUN! Okami is a really good example of the devlopers trying to make a game good-looking instead of uber-real.
(1) Why does everyone hve to hate on FPS gamers? I am a real fan of FPS games and, I will admit, some of them are a bit cookie-cutter. But not all FPS games are the same run-and-gun brown, brown, and more brown you describe. Take The Darkness for example. This game was original and inventive. The ending kind of sucked though...
(2) I VERY MUCH agree on this. I hate it how PC gamers think that all console gamers are blithering, mouth-foaming, unitelligent loons. I also hate it when console fans think that all PC gamers are all stuck-up & snobbish. This is a completely unfounded sterotype.
(3) Once again, good point. Realism is nice and all but there's a line sometimes. Developers are sometimes to busy trying to make their AK-47 photo-realistic to MAKE THE GAME FUN! Okami is a really good example of the devlopers trying to make a game good-looking instead of uber-real.
What's wrong with games being "grandma-friendly"? I, for one, think being able to do something you enjoy with your family, regardless of age, is a lovely thing. If I tried to get my grandma to play Gears of War with me, well.. lol. She would say no.
The bottom line is, there are different games for different people. And some people are aggressive towards others who are different from them. It's like cliques in high school. Jocks will look down at nerds just because they like different things, etc.. This sort of "elitism" happens in music, as well. "Hardcore" fans of a certain genre will look down on people who like bands different from the ones they like and call them "posers" and such. That being said, I play games ALOT, and I would say I'm "hardcore", but I don't resent casual gamers or casual games themselves.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is it depends on the individuals rather than the entire "hardcore" crowd.
The bottom line is, there are different games for different people. And some people are aggressive towards others who are different from them. It's like cliques in high school. Jocks will look down at nerds just because they like different things, etc.. This sort of "elitism" happens in music, as well. "Hardcore" fans of a certain genre will look down on people who like bands different from the ones they like and call them "posers" and such. That being said, I play games ALOT, and I would say I'm "hardcore", but I don't resent casual gamers or casual games themselves.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is it depends on the individuals rather than the entire "hardcore" crowd.
It became horrible as soon as :
Companies realised they could trot out barely enhanced versions year after year and the mindless sheep would still buy it.
Companies (by and large) stopped bothering with good games and concentrated on the graphics whores.
The PC ports of Console games absolutely sucked ass in comparison their console brethren. (yes I realise the irony compared to above)
Bethesda ignored the people who brought them to the dance and raped TES:IV on PC and are currently raping Fallout3. To satisfy the "but I don't want to think ... ooh a shiny thing" generation.
And finally but most tellingly, when gaming went from being a valid pursuit for the misanthropes amongst us to everything having multiplayer. Enabling everyone to have a swearing bigot in their lives proclaiming that they've either "owned" you or that you're cheating. And multiplayer at the expense of single-player too.
Tis a sad world.
Companies realised they could trot out barely enhanced versions year after year and the mindless sheep would still buy it.
Companies (by and large) stopped bothering with good games and concentrated on the graphics whores.
The PC ports of Console games absolutely sucked ass in comparison their console brethren. (yes I realise the irony compared to above)
Bethesda ignored the people who brought them to the dance and raped TES:IV on PC and are currently raping Fallout3. To satisfy the "but I don't want to think ... ooh a shiny thing" generation.
And finally but most tellingly, when gaming went from being a valid pursuit for the misanthropes amongst us to everything having multiplayer. Enabling everyone to have a swearing bigot in their lives proclaiming that they've either "owned" you or that you're cheating. And multiplayer at the expense of single-player too.
Tis a sad world.
That's sort of like saying, why spend millions of dollars developing new pharmaceutical drugs, when it would be much cheaper to simply make injection molded plastic toys. It would cost a lot less, and you'd still get "a shit load of profit". You'd do it because that's what you want to do, and there is a market for it.JakubK666 said:
There are different markets for different gamers. Some gamers like playing "Dog Dungeon - WITH 3D UP THE ARSE!!" and some people prefer playing Peggle. And some people are like me... I love so called "hardcore" games, but often I just don't have that much time. I have a full time job, I go to school, and I have a family, so I don't always have gobs of time to dedicate to playing the latest and greatest bloodfest... often times I only have like 10 minutes to play a game while my wife is getting dressed... not nearly enough time to play a round of the latest 3D gorefest, let alone get through a cinematic... but I do have sufficient time to play a quick round of Bejeweled, or maybe a quick game of Donkey Kong on Virtual Console...
It's sort of like the movie industry, some people prefer watching IMAX documentaries about penguins, and some people prefer epic multi-part movies about hobbits trying to throw a ring into a volcano. But the existance of March of the Penguins dosen't threaten the existance of The Lord of the Rings.
I wouldn't be that concerned about "causal gaming" distroying the "hardcore" gaming industry. Look around, there are more games comming out now then at any time in the past! I expect in the future that we will find all sorts of games for all sorts of people. Anyway, expanding the market for games can only be good for the industry as a whole. The future is bright for games.
I, similarly, can barely tell FPS's apart. It's either a modern, realistic FPS, or futuristic, flashy FPS with guns shoot purple happiness instead of bullets. I think that if people expand their definition of what constitutes a hardcore game, then they'll be less angry about the Wii. After all, Wii Sports can get a fella playing the Wii, which can get him playing Smash Bros. Brawl, which can get him to wonder who Samus or Link is, so they buy Zelda and Metroid. Then, all of a sudden, they're playing action-adventure and FPS games. Bam. Casual games are a gateway drug.
I'd like to shamelessly forward any discussion of "What is a hardcore gamer" to http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.58593
I'd like to shamelessly forward any discussion of "What is a hardcore gamer" to http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.58593
I generally find casuals play FPS and Sports games more then other types of games (simple puzzle games excluded) Do to being Much easier to get into and easier to play in small bursts. Hardcore players will play about anything, normally preferring stuff that takes longer to play. Don't really see the "x game is for kids" very much unless its younger players trying to act like an adultSylocat said:
Agreed with the PC snobbery, far too many people think having to memorize 37 hotkeys makes them a better person. I want to agree about ps3/360 vrs wii but I can't If you're a hardcore gamer the Wii just doesn't offer enough content compared to the other two, as well as that the ps3/360 has many casual games as wellSylocat said:
Somewhat agreed, however both casuals and hardcore players complain about this as well. Also some games are better off trying to have realistic graphics. A WW2 shooter just wouldn't look right cell shaded.Sylocat said:
All of you are starting to sound like my friend, the Nintendo freak. He basically doesn't give anything that isn't either made by Nintendo or on a Nintendo console (either handheld or console) a chance with few exceptions. And basically, he says that all shooters are the same. Sure they all LOOK the same, even I admit it, but play the game first and then judge. You'd be surprised how different Half-Life is from Halo and CoD4 and other FPS's. I even made a competition with my friend that if I could find a shooter that convinces him is not like the rest i get $50. Metal Gear 4 might be the one!