When do you "Forgive" a game for its negatives?

[SweetShark]

Lets take for a very well-known game on Xbox360/PS3 and soon to PC: Deadly Premonition.

This game is an example of many negative things have:
The boring driving,the loud sounds, the few enemies types,the f*cking map,the pacing,the outdated graphics. These elements together guarantee a perfect sh*tty game.

However the majority of players had forgiven the game because of the Epic story, the colorful and unique characters, the weirdness of the whole game, The awesome duo York/Zack.

Personally, at some point I gave up because of th ebullsh*ts the game had and I put to the game a 6/10 score. But some others of course will put a higher score.

[/b]So, do you have a game that it have many negative things to talk about, but you forgive it to be a good game for your taste?[/b]

 

[Zhukov]

Mirror's Edge I guess.

The level design was overly linear (and that's coming from someone who has nothing against linear games, but in a game where the central mechanics involve movement, you need some wriggle room), the combat was kinda bad and the story sucked seven flavours of arse.

However, I "forgive" it simply because those few sequences where you're hurtling along, making jumps, vaulting obstacles and running along walls while excessively trigger happy law enforcement officers shoot at you were fucking intense. Also, the combat could be pretty fun. Goomba-stomping SWAT cops never gets old.

Oh, and it looked awfully pretty.

 

[Racecarlock]

When a game is too damn fun for me to hate it. Like, SR3 got rid of a LOT of location variety, but GOD DAMN I GOT TO BE A TRON DRAGON AND SKYDIVE IN A TANK AND MAKE A CHEESY 50'S SCI-FI MOVIE AND USE SUPER POWERS GIVEN TO ME BY AN ENERGY DRINK TO RESCUE A HULK VERSION OF JOHNNY GAT...

*huff huff huff*

Also, I can't hate a sandbox game that gives me an RC gun that lets me hijack cars remotely and run over pedestrians without getting a wanted level.

 

[LetalisK]

I don't ever forgive flaws. I include everything in determining whether or not I'm enjoying something. Doesn't mean flaws are always game-breaking.

Take an extreme example in Mount and Blade: Warband. It's a bad first/third person slasher game. It's a bad empire builder. It's a bad RTS. It's a bad RPG. But, all this shit actually manages to come together to make something pretty damn fun. Doesn't mean I forgive any of the individual elements for being shit.

 

[shrekfan246]

It depends on what the negatives actually are, and how badly they impact the game I suppose.

For instance, the writing is hilariously cliche and overdramatic in Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep, but the thing is so bloody fun to play and the actual character moments between the characters that matter are done well enough that it doesn't really matter in the end. I do wish the levels still had the same intricacies of Kingdom Hearts or Kingdom Hearts II, but I suppose there are some sacrifices to be made when your game is being made on a portable system.

I suppose two other examples might be Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, and Assassin's Creed III. Two of the most monumentally disappointing, slapdash endings I've ever seen in any form of media, but they were completely overshadowed by Mass Effect 3. But I had enough fun with the other parts of the games that I don't think it'd be fair to classify them as "bad". Quite the contrary in the case of Fall of Cybertron, actually. Everything leading up to the final cutscene was gloriously amazing, and then the cutscene rolls around and, without spoiling anything, I just sat in front of the screen for a few minutes before exclaiming aloud "That's it?"

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

I can forgive Transformers War for Cybertron because being the first in the series it had very basic guns and ammo pickups were all the same along with your aiming being one sided only.

Come Fall of Cybertron a lot of that changed with there being regular fire arms and special ones that required a different set of ammo, they changed how you could aim with being able to switch your gun from your left to your right hand (pretty cool transformation sequence when you changed hands) and they changed the overall health numbers for each class since the soldier/Leader class was quite op during multiplayer battles.

the only regret I have for the two games is War gave every class a special move, like Scout class for example was able to double jump and leader class was allowed to use ramming speed in vehicle mode, soldier class was able to turn 180 instantly in tank mode and the science class was able to do a flip in plane mode to avoid incoming fire, that all changed by Fall of Cybertron and everyone was given basic moves and that in turn took away some uniqueness the classes once had and it did change some of the gameplay styles that some could use as an advantage during multiplayer combat.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

When good parts of game make me ignore or forgive bad parts. Sure, Persona 3 and 4 had an incredibly long, almost unplayable, 90 minutes intro, but it was necessary for setting up a tone for an amazing story.
Sure Mass Effect 3 ending was not so good, but the moments on Tuchanka, Citadel and Rannoch were worth playing the game.
This is actually a sign of really good game for me. Every game has some flaws, no game is perfect, but a really good game will make ignore or endure all the bad parts because good parts are just too, well, good.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I forgive a negative when it presents something equally or more positive.

Take Red Faction: Guerilla... The worst and most boring story and characters I've ever seen in a game. Yet I can't hear it over how awesome it is to smash buildings with cars, mechs, explosives, or your own sledgehammer, as well as the inclusion of a jetpack later on.

 

[Evonisia]

I can forgive a flaw if it serves a purpose.

The Sandbox of Mafia II is pointless and unneeded, every single mission could have been done in a linear equivalent, however it provided the player with contrast showing a world outside of all the gang violence they were doing.

 

[KOMega]

It really depends on the negatives and how good the positives are.
Generally, gameplay and mechanics will trump plotholes and bad writing, as long as it isn't TOO bad.
Sometimes it can go the other way, but generally gameplay and mechanics are stronger positives to me.

Like, I really enjoyed FF8, but I hear a lot of people talking about the plotholes and blah blah blah.
Game was fun to play and I really enjoyed the game as a whole.

 

[Resetti's_Replicas]

In general, I forgive if it's a sequel to a game I really enjoyed. Examples:

Animal Crossing - None of the sequels have music as good as the Gamecube version.

Virtue's Last Reward: Overly long explanation of the Prisoners' Dilemma game & color combinations

Pokemon R/S/E: Limited teambuilding because way too many past-gen pokemon are unobtainable.

Pokemon D/P: Not enough fresh stuff - the fire starter becomes fighting again, and the first gym is rock-type again AGAIN.

 

[FootloosePhoenix]

Quite simply, when I enjoy the experience anyway. Virtue's Last Reward is a good, fairly recent example for me. Usually I hate narrative in video games being told explicitly through non-interactive means, chiefly cutscenes, which kind of misses the whole advantage of crafting something for an interactive medium. In most cases it destroys much of my appreciation of the overall game. Maybe that doesn't make much sense, but I just despise being yanked away from the gameplay to be only shown something, as if I'm watching a movie. Uncharted is a huge offender of this and is part of the reason I cannot stand to play it anymore. But the story and characters of Virtue's Last Reward are so magnificent that I would absolutely recommend the experience (albeit to people with a good dose of patience). It is odd, since when I look back on it, there isn't a single thing I like about the game beyond its story and characters and typically, that just doesn't do it for me in a video game. I need something from the gameplay too, which I didn't get since I mostly found the puzzles frustratingly nonsensical and heavily relied on a guide near the end just because I wanted to get to the ending so bad.

Another example is Oblivion. Despite the fundamentally broken level-up system, the NPCs straight from the Uncanny Valley and its overall ridiculousness, it's one of my favourite games of all time. In fact part of the reason I like it so much is because of its ridiculousness, both purposeful and unintentional. It has so much personality that even when it glitches out, I can't possibly get mad; I just laugh and say "Oh Oblivion, you crazy, lovable bastard."

 

[GoaThief]

When do you "Forgive" a game for its negatives?

Simple mathematics.

Game positive(s) - Game negatives = >0

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

As long as the positives outweigh the negatives, I'm fine. Although, if you enjoy something, flaws and all, and aren't hurt by any of it, at least not to a point where it really bothers you or ruins the experience, that's a sign that you truly love something.

 

[COMaestro]

Quite simply, when I enjoy the experience anyway. Virtue's Last Reward is a good, fairly recent example for me. Usually I hate narrative in video games being told explicitly through non-interactive means, chiefly cutscenes, which kind of misses the whole advantage of crafting something for an interactive medium. In most cases it destroys much of my appreciation of the overall game. Maybe that doesn't make much sense, but I just despise being yanked away from the gameplay to be only shown something, as if I'm watching a movie. Uncharted is a huge offender of this and is part of the reason I cannot stand to play it anymore. But the story and characters of Virtue's Last Reward are so magnificent that I would absolutely recommend the experience (albeit to people with a good dose of patience). It is odd, since when I look back on it, there isn't a single thing I like about the game beyond its story and characters and typically, that just doesn't do it for me in a video game. I need something from the gameplay too, which I didn't get since I mostly found the puzzles frustratingly nonsensical and heavily relied on a guide near the end just because I wanted to get to the ending so bad.

That's funny, I'm playing Virtue's Last Reward right now and I'm nearly done with it (maybe done with it, got the Beginning or End? ending just before coming back to work after lunch). I only needed a guide twice, and that was only to get the archive folders out of two of the safes. I thought all the puzzles, which were the main reason I wanted the game in the first place after playing the demo, were well thought out and there were enough hints to get though everything on Hard. I got lucky in that I started writing down any passcodes in the off chance the character wouldn't remember them on his own, so I only had to backtrack for one of the bomb passcodes when I got to that point.

Agree though, you need a lot of patience, especially while waiting for the transfer between rooms during the visual novel portions of the game or when playing a different line and the same situation happens from a previous one, but since you haven't experienced it yet in this line, you can't skip.

OT - I can overlook a lot of negatives in a game as long as I find the game to ultimately be fun. I can nitpick over story, gameplay, controls, what have you, but as long as the final experience is fun, it's good in my book.

 

[Eduku]

hard to say really. it needs to hard that IT factor where you can over look the specific negatives and that could be the story, or it could be the rest of the gameplay.

alpha protocol. its got shitty optimisation, you get stuck easiely on corners, the hacking minigame is stupid beyond belief and pistols are over powered to the extent you will never use another weapon.

but for all that its still one of my favourite rpgs ever

Damn, I keep hearing about this game and how good it is, despite the poor critic reception, it seems to have become a cult hit. Is it really that good?

 

[Ishal]

I forgive a game for its negatives whenever there are positives, simple as.

All games have negative aspects, why focus solely on them unless they are utterly a pain or gamebreaking? That was one of the things I never understood about Skyrim and Bethesda. Yeah it launched with a bunch of bugs, so what? Look at all the stuff to do in that game? Look at that game world? Still a lot of fun.

I'm forgiving of a lot of things, a lot more than most people. I'm starting to realize this.

 

[xemnahort]

Thinking about it there are quite a few for me.

These are just my opinions so don't bite my head off. But if you truly feel you must then... Fuck you.

Bayonetta
Cons:Story is stupid, poorly paced and written, more than half the cutscenes are still image reels.
Pros:Combat is amazing, Bayonetta is amazing, enemy variety is amazing, boss fights are epic and amazing, style and atmosphere are perfect and amazing.
Huh, game with negatives that kill other games for me gets 10/10 funny how that works.

Pokemon
Cons:The grind, oh god the horrible grind, very little to no changes to combat or story per game, still clearly made for kids and yet only players who are older and have patience can truly succeed, no choice to join villains, incredibly campy, random encounters, hit-or-miss minigames, and too many origin stories.
Pros:I honestly don't even know I just know I can't ever let go of Pokemon ever.
I think my pros say more than enough.

Dragon Age:Origins
Cons:For non DnD fans (which I'm not) combat, OP mages on both sides (fuck you curse of mortality), the fade
Pros:Characters, story, lore, and origin stories.
Yup, just four pros curbstomp the cons by a mile.

Dragon Age 2
Cons:Frequently reused map locations, weak story, overarching plot which is barely significant till the end, new Anders (I miss Awakening Anders), warriors are practically useless, rushed third act, and removal of origin choice.
Pros:Characters are developed even better than the first, character loyalty system, armor and weapons use stats based on class, Merrill is adorable, combat is faster and less point and click, and voice acting.
Honestly I can play this game just for the characters they really are good enough to ignore everything else... except Anders because I can't forget how he was in Awakening and I will never ever be ok with what happened to him.

Star Wars: The Old Republic
Cons:Free-to-play (you can never settle after subscribing), similarity to WoW (personally never played WoW enough to see it), typical mmo general chat flame wars, trolls and spammers, loot ninjas, republic has too many stuns often unbalancing pvp, huttball, Alderaan, Tantooine, and limited character creation.
Pros:voice acting, story, companions, unify colors for gear, legacy system, pvp besides huttball, lightsabers, group dialogue roll, Nar Shaddaa, class variety, multiple story lines, and multiple endings per story.
Despite not being the WoW killer it claimed to be it's quality voice acting and story are the things that really keep me crawling back to it begging to see more.

Mass Effect 3
Cons:multiplayer upgrades, characters, and weapons are randomized, online pass, the ending, the starchild, the crucible, and less interaction with squadmates on ship.
Pros:Tuchunka, Rannoch, everything story related before ending, atmosphere, combat, multiplayer, characters, nearly all dlc is free, and character death.
A lot of people hate the ending (myself included) but if the game was terrible then why did they play long enough to get to the ending. Also almost any time a character died it was a very emotional moment and showed the writing at it's best.

That's all I have off the top of my head (my head must be huge).

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

Most of the time, if I REALLY want to enjoy the game, I won't watch any reviews and go through the game practically blind to all it's flaws. Only if the game is exceptionally messed up will I actually notice it. For every other game, I watch the reviews *after* I finish it an whenever the reviewer points out a flaw (or at least a personal note I can agree with) then I'll go "oh yeah, that WAS a problem, wasn't it?"