When will we see a NON-attractive woman in a video-game?

[hazabaza1]

And to answer your crap about Jade, Jade is their to be gawped over for her tits. Chell is not. Chell has a backstory that most people who've PLAYED portal will know. Chell has a motivation for what she does. Jade's only backstory and motivation is again "Who cares, she has tits!" That is why Chell is more relevant than Jade, she isn't just their because she's got tits that look like watermelons.

I can't tell if you're trying to be as wrong as you can be if this comes naturally.

OT: Echoing what others said. Plenty are there, but the focus tends to be shifted to the pretty ones.

 

[Altorin]

Umm, Chell?
Chell was intentionally pretty rough looking, and she still has a rep as one of the best female characters in gaming.

That's ridiculous. How on earth does she qualify as one of the best characters in gaming? All she does is run around with a gun.

Because of the property she's tied to, she's awesome through assosciation.

Oh, and she beat two giant killer robots with entire military complexes to use against her whilst surviving multiple death traps, using only a portal gun to escape.

I hope that answers your question.

I don't care if she single-handedly defeated the undead armies of hell while standing on her head, the point is she has no character. She's just a face and body with a portal gun that we make do things.

I don't think you understand how protagonists in video games work.

Why don't you tell me? I'd really like to know how Chell from Portal can possibly have more character than, say, Jade from Beyond Good & Evil.

nice strawman, want a light?

What I'm saying is, what you do in a video game, are the actions of the character you're playing. Chell did a lot of things. She didn't do nothing just because she didn't say a word, and the game funnels you down a path, which by the end of the game first game means that you've recognized that Glados is a threat, and through your (chell's) ingenuity, managed to defeat her using the portal gun that she was so proud of, and then escape (albeit shortly).

Portal 2 opens with Chell in a simulation room, and then something goes wrong and she goes to sleep for many years, Wheatley wakes her up, and finds that she is slightly brain damaged from the prolonged sleep, just through following the tutorial segments.

This idea that the protagonist is you and the things you do are the things the protagonist does is a pretty fundamental part of gaming. Look at Jack from Bioshock for instance. Would you say that he doesn't have any character because all he does is run around with a gun following orders over an intercom? No, because by the time you're done the story, you'll find that your own actions have been subverted to feed an amazing twist. (probably the best game twist of this generation)

Silent Protagonists are not necessarily blank slates.


Edit: and Chell is actually an interesting case for another reason (although it ties back into this whole idea) When Portal Opens up, you have no idea who you are. You can see your character briefly if you catch a glimpse of her through a portal, but really, Portal, in the beginning, could just be a collection of challenge maps with no real story to it at all.. but then as you complete the maps you get a sense that something's wrong, and then when Glados tries to kill you, you have to make a choice - burn to death and ostensibly just end the game, or break outside the confines of the "game" using the portal gun and blaze your own trail. That choice, basically, is Chell's. You make it, but it's her that does it, and you're inside her head. So it's hers.

 

[chikusho]

On page three, and it seems OP's complaint is excessive.
Thread debunked.

 

[Nulmas]

Jade's only backstory and motivation is again "Who cares, she has tits!" That is why Chell is more relevant than Jade, she isn't just their because she's got tits that look like watermelons.

Are you sure you know who Jade from Beyond Good & Evil is?

I can't seem to find the gigantic boobies you've been referring to.

 

[Cette]

Jade's only backstory and motivation is again "Who cares, she has tits!" That is why Chell is more relevant than Jade, she isn't just their because she's got tits that look like watermelons.

Are you sure you know who Jade from Beyond Good & Evil is?

I can't seem to find the gigantic boobies you've been referring to.

I'm going to give him the tiniest benefit of the doubt and assume he somehow heard the name Jade and assumed Mortal Kombat. Still atrocious reading comprehension but it at least explains the inane baboon babble that started frothing forth with some logical connection.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

The question is, will a game about a non-attractive female protagonist sell?

 

[dancinginfernal]

I present Kreia from KOTOR 2.

-Snip-

A lot of the women in that game are pretty great, and excluding Mira aren't overtly "pretty" or really sexualized at all - and she says herself it's just for manipulative purposes and she has a lot more than cleavage to her. Brianna, Mira, Visas - a girl who had her eyes ripped out - are all very deep characters and very well-written and aren't necessarily "beautiful" by classical means.

Then again maybe I'm just gushing over Knights 2 again.

 

[Ashley Blalock]

Instead of a problem confined just to gaming the problem of women must be children, dead sexy, or the wise of grandmother seems to be just about everywhere. If there is something that breaks that mold it seems like it gets killed off.

Take the wrestling world for example. At one time they had a group called GLOW and it featured just about every body type you could think of. While you could find the little cute women you also had some big tough women like Matilda the Hun, Mountain Fiji, and Colonel Ninotchka who got star time on the show. At one point TNA had big women like ODB and Awesome Kong. Sadly it seems like wrestling only keeps the women that look like they can fight for a while before going back to the Barbee doll look again.

With the superhero mythology it's really hard to find female characters that aren't in the mold of child, sexy, or grandmother.

I'd say TV is the same way, but lets face it nerds can make sexy out of characters who weren't meant to be sex symbols. They could down play the make up and everything but nerds were going to find Kaylee from Firefly sexy. As disturbing as it sounds I'm sure there are nerds out there somewhere with a thing for the Big Bang Theory's Amy Farrah Fowler.

 

[Nulmas]

I'm going to give him the tiniest benefit of the doubt and assume he somehow heard the name Jade and assumed Mortal Kombat. Still atrocious reading comprehension but it at least explains the inane baboon babble that started frothing forth with some logical connection.

Oh, that Jade! Now there's a good example of an attractive female characte that's completely forgettable

A lot of the women in that game are pretty great, and excluding Mira aren't overtly "pretty" or really sexualized at all - and she says herself it's just for manipulative purposes and she has a lot more than cleavage to her. Brianna, Mira, Visas - a girl who had her eyes ripped out - are all very deep characters and very well-written and aren't necessarily "beautiful" by classical means.

Then again maybe I'm just gushing over Knights 2 again.

Just to be nitpicky and show some Star Wars cred, Visas Marr didn't have her eyes ripped out. Members of her species (the Miraluka) have no eyes and they all "see" through the Force.

And it's always good to see some praise for KoTOR 2 Have you played the restored version yet?

 

[KefkaCultist]

Spoiler

For those unaware about Katawa Shoujo, each girl in that picture has some sort of disability.
(from left to right: Lilly - blindness, Hanako - burns, Rin - no arms, Shizune - mute, and Emi - no legs).

You're probably thinking, "But KefkaCultist, these girls are still attractive!" And yes, you're right, but that's because people can be attractive without being overly sexualized. There's no need to put "ugly" girls in games. Hell, loading up the medium with "ugly" girls to appease the ones crying about over-sexualization is just as bad. Beauty is entirely subjective and while I agree we shouldn't have boobage flopping about everywhere, girls should still look like girls, not sub-human looking bags of flesh on bones.

 

[dancinginfernal]

Snip

Just to be nitpicky and show some Star Wars cred, Visas Marr didn't have her eyes ripped out. Members of her species (the Miraluka) have no eyes and they all "see" through the Force.[/quote]

I swear to recall her had her eyes gouged by D. Nihilus, though I could be mistaken.

If I'm wrong, alright then. Now I know~

 

[Nulmas]

I swear to recall her had her eyes gouged by D. Nihilus, though I could be mistaken.

If I'm wrong, alright then. Now I know~

If I recall correctly, they do mention Nihilus wanting to blind the Miraluka so that he could remain unseen. Maybe even "blinding" Visas Marr from the Force. But it was never something physical.

And, since you quoted me before I managed to edit my post, I'm going to say this again:

And it's always good to see some praise for KoTOR 2 Have you played the restored version yet?

 

[lord.jeff]

I don't so much want uglier women but more variety of body type almost every female seems to be either being a supermodel or a kid, I can't think of any non supermodel looking female that you can play as in a game.

but.. we don't have only supermodels or kids... average looking women are all over the place, but we focus only on the supermodels and kids and say "Look at these super sexy characters, how dare we?" and we completely ignore the rest, because, they don't... count? cause... we don't want to bone them?


If we're looking for average or unattractive people that we'd still conceivably bone, then I think this is a ludicrously vain endeavor.

Could I get a few examples of non skinny female leads or short female leads? I'm sure some exist but I can't think of a single female with a stomach that curves out instead of in.

 

[dancinginfernal]

I swear to recall her had her eyes gouged by D. Nihilus, though I could be mistaken.

If I'm wrong, alright then. Now I know~

If I recall correctly, they do mention Nihilus wanting to blind the Miraluka so that he could remain unseen. Maybe even "blinding" Visas Marr from the Force. But it was never something physical.

And, since you quoted me before I managed to edit my post, I'm going to say this again:

And it's always good to see some praise for KoTOR 2 Have you played the restored version yet?

I have, though not to completion. I got distracted from it by schoolwork last Summer, and haven't yet returned to it.

Seriously need to.

 

[Nulmas]

I swear to recall her had her eyes gouged by D. Nihilus, though I could be mistaken.

If I'm wrong, alright then. Now I know~

If I recall correctly, they do mention Nihilus wanting to blind the Miraluka so that he could remain unseen. Maybe even "blinding" Visas Marr from the Force. But it was never something physical.

And, since you quoted me before I managed to edit my post, I'm going to say this again:

And it's always good to see some praise for KoTOR 2 Have you played the restored version yet?

I have, though not to completion. I got distracted from it by schoolwork last Summer, and haven't yet returned to it.

Seriously need to.

It's totally worth it

I don't understand all the hate KoTOR 2 gets. Sure, the last act was a bit rushed but it's still the most original story I've seen in the Star Wars EU. Most of them just seem to be rehashes of the same old themes and situations.

 

[Arkynomicon]

Video-games in general are horrible at representing people that are not stereotypes.

 

[Altorin]

I don't so much want uglier women but more variety of body type almost every female seems to be either being a supermodel or a kid, I can't think of any non supermodel looking female that you can play as in a game.

but.. we don't have only supermodels or kids... average looking women are all over the place, but we focus only on the supermodels and kids and say "Look at these super sexy characters, how dare we?" and we completely ignore the rest, because, they don't... count? cause... we don't want to bone them?


If we're looking for average or unattractive people that we'd still conceivably bone, then I think this is a ludicrously vain endeavor.

Could I get a few examples of non skinny female leads or short female leads? I'm sure some exist but I can't think of a single female with a stomach that curves out instead of in.

My female Fable 2 character got pretty hilariously grotesque, but apart from that...

Protagonists designed specifically unattractive as opposed to some idiosyncrasy of the technology? Probably not off the top of my head. But by the same token male protagonists, unless their character is built around some grotesque feature, tend to also be built to be admirable and attractive as well. Game designers want people to like the characters their playing as. And one of the simplest (and probably laziest) ways to do that is to make them physically appealing.

But there are a few very important female characters, either antagonists or major allies that fall off the attractive radar. Any witch character for instance, unless they're spawned from that ridiculous trope of the sexy witch, is going to be ugly by design. Specifically there's Kreia and Gruntilda taking up the antagonist spots, Hammer from Fable 2 taking the major allies spot.

Then you have women who fall into the physically appealing spectrum but that aren't overtly sexualized. Your Alyx Vances, Jades, Chells and Samuses (at least until the Zero Suit made an appearance and barring the various bikini prizes over the years, IN GENERAL samus isn't sexualized at all - in fact, the bikini prizes are lampshading the fact that for the most part, new players are supposed to think she's a guy.) These characters are attractive, but their sex appeal is by far not the most important bit about them.

Then you have characters that are sexualized, but for a purpose (other then "to give you a boner") These are characters like Bayonetta, Catherine, and I'm sure there are others, but it's been a long night. They're artistically designed to titillate, but also cast a reflection on the player and the medium as a whole. Sex is part of their character intrinsically, and if that's the story the designer is trying to tell, really, I don't have any problem with that.

Then there is the furthest side of the spectrum. Pure Fanservice, and I don't think I really need to name any examples as these are the types of characters the thread assumes are the only way females are viewed in gaming (although Lara Croft and Ivy come to mind). Characters for whom sex appeal wasn't part of the story (at least in the beginning - Lara Croft *kinda* transcended her roots in later games and became a compelling character in her own right, although she never really lost the sexy) and it was just an extra thing in the game to try and sell copies of the game. Fighting games do this a lot. Dead or Alive sort of took this concept and ran with it whole hog.

So, you're probably not going to find an ugly female protagonist, which could be a problem I guess, but I think this is more an idiosyncrasy of media as a whole and a reflection on our culture rather then an issue video games are particularly to blame for. What we really need is MORE female protagonists, of any and all varieties, sexy, non-sexy, grotesque.. Just more would be an improvement.

 

[DrOswald]

I see a lot of people calling that girl from Half Life 2 "average looking"

If that's average, I weep for the self-esteem of teenage girls everywhere.

OT: Kreia is pretty much the only one I can think of. Most others are either designed to comical extremes as a form of subversion, or are simply attractive in the non-hyper sexualized sense.

If I saw someone who looked like Alyx Vance on a university campus I probably wouldn't even notice her. She certainly wouldn't get a second look or be noted as exceptionally attractive, and I would make no special effort to sit close to her if we had a course together based on her looks.

She is attractive, but not notably so. That is practically the definition of average.

 

[D-Class 198482]

I'm surprised that nobody has said Rachel yet.

That is a woman?
OP: I suppose you can't mention zombies, can you? Or kind-of-zombies, in this case. Ah, I'm saying it anyway: The Lovely Assistant, the Siren, and the mom from Hillbilly Horror Nights, all from Killing Floor.