Where have all the health bars gone?
- Thread starter gallaetha_matt
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Halo: Reach has health bars.
Devs (and the people who they sell to) seem to think that not having a health bar makes a game more realistic, and that everyone sees red when they get shot in the foot enough times.
Devs (and the people who they sell to) seem to think that not having a health bar makes a game more realistic, and that everyone sees red when they get shot in the foot enough times.
TF2 and the Left 4 Dead games have health bars. Personally, I love them. I find that they detract from the immersion far less than the "jam on your face, bro"[footnote]Also known as the "You've got red on you" method[/footnote] method of indicating damage does.
Kids these days, dumbing down the content just because they can't keep up with us. We need a gaming boot camp, a mandatory government establishment to get them up to speed. That'll keep them from getting used to their fancy regenerating health, fast reload times and gun bling. Back in my day we didn't have red dot sights. We used the iron sights and by god, we loved it!ProfessorLayton said:
This goes back to the recent thread about how Halo did or didn't make things worse for the rest of us gamers. Around the time Halo and before came out, we had games like Goldeneye where there were only armor upgrades to stop you from taking health damage, and then No One Lives Forever where they took it a step further and made you complete a series of missions on the same health because the story had not taken you home yet to heal.DustyDrB said:
In other words, games have done that and it worked well. You just have to go to pre-Halo era to find them.
The reason why developers like to remove hp bars is because it improves immersiveness and unclutters the HUD. While it does make it more difficult to judge your survivability I don't mind not having a hp bar on screen all the time except on occasions where I'm playing a hardcore rpg.
To all those saying Halo was the first with regenerative health... technically you're wrong. Faceball 2000 and Wolverine: Adamantium Rage were actually the first. And Combat Evolved just used health packs, it wasn't until Halo 2 that health started regenerating.
I think what you mean to say is Halo 2 was the first POPULAR game to use it. And then everyone copied it because it was so popular. So in fact, it is US who is to blame, and not Halo. Obviously we liked Halo, that's why we bought it. That's why it became such a big seller. That's why everyone copied it in their games.
No one complained about the regenerative health at the time. It's only now that it's absolutely everywhere that everyone's getting riled up and pointing fingers at the game everyone loves to bash, Halo. It's funny, I could swear the number of people who say they 'hate' Halo would probably account for something like 90% of the people on any forum. Yet in real life, the opposite number of people buy the damn thing every time.
It's not cool to hate Halo anymore guys... it's actually gotten to the point where it's cliche.
Anyway...
There's nothing wrong with regenerative health, as long as it's displayed in a decent manner. Gears sucks because it is far too ambiguous. Assassin's Creed is great, it shows you exactly how much you've lost while also not regenerating all of it. The best by far though is Dead Space. You have that easy visual right there, but it's not out there constantly reminding you that you're playing a game. And it doesn't regenerate, you use health packs that you carry around. The beauty of Dead Space is that even when you're scrounging around for health packs, there's always that foreboding sense that something is gonna jump out and grab you...
I was playing a game recently (I can't remember what, Saboteur? UT3?) and blood splashed up on the screen. I don't like that. It's the opposite of immersive because it points out that there is a fucking screen there!
If dev's are gonna do regenerating health, they need a display (yes, like Halo) of how much health you have. If they aren't going to have a display, they need to work it into the game somehow. If they're not gonna do either then I'm gonna be pissed off when I die because I went for that one last shot but it turns out one more shot killed me. If I had an indication then it would be a calculated risk. WIthout indication, it's a fucking guess.
I think what you mean to say is Halo 2 was the first POPULAR game to use it. And then everyone copied it because it was so popular. So in fact, it is US who is to blame, and not Halo. Obviously we liked Halo, that's why we bought it. That's why it became such a big seller. That's why everyone copied it in their games.
No one complained about the regenerative health at the time. It's only now that it's absolutely everywhere that everyone's getting riled up and pointing fingers at the game everyone loves to bash, Halo. It's funny, I could swear the number of people who say they 'hate' Halo would probably account for something like 90% of the people on any forum. Yet in real life, the opposite number of people buy the damn thing every time.
It's not cool to hate Halo anymore guys... it's actually gotten to the point where it's cliche.
Anyway...
There's nothing wrong with regenerative health, as long as it's displayed in a decent manner. Gears sucks because it is far too ambiguous. Assassin's Creed is great, it shows you exactly how much you've lost while also not regenerating all of it. The best by far though is Dead Space. You have that easy visual right there, but it's not out there constantly reminding you that you're playing a game. And it doesn't regenerate, you use health packs that you carry around. The beauty of Dead Space is that even when you're scrounging around for health packs, there's always that foreboding sense that something is gonna jump out and grab you...
I was playing a game recently (I can't remember what, Saboteur? UT3?) and blood splashed up on the screen. I don't like that. It's the opposite of immersive because it points out that there is a fucking screen there!
If dev's are gonna do regenerating health, they need a display (yes, like Halo) of how much health you have. If they aren't going to have a display, they need to work it into the game somehow. If they're not gonna do either then I'm gonna be pissed off when I die because I went for that one last shot but it turns out one more shot killed me. If I had an indication then it would be a calculated risk. WIthout indication, it's a fucking guess.
I'm happy they're gone. Why? Because I feel that non-regenerating health is deliberately putting a limit on how much fun I can have before it's time to play "Pace killing arbitrary back tracking fetch-quest, now with more Pace-killing".
If I wanted to spend fifteen minutes looking for stupid bullshit in between actually having fun, I'd play WoW.
That said, I don't have a problem with health bars, so to speak, but with non-regenerating health. And that partial regeneration system some how combines the worst of both, like a cocktail made of regret and dead brain cells instead of gin and vermouth.
If I wanted to spend fifteen minutes looking for stupid bullshit in between actually having fun, I'd play WoW.
That said, I don't have a problem with health bars, so to speak, but with non-regenerating health. And that partial regeneration system some how combines the worst of both, like a cocktail made of regret and dead brain cells instead of gin and vermouth.
While I wouldn't dismiss it entirely (Mirror's Edge would just be impossible without regenerating health), I can't help but feel that regerating health's prevalance in FPSes is dumbing down. I mean, if you get battered down to 1 health, you shouldn't be able to hide and get back to 100% in a few seconds. You should scramble for anything that helps, be it a health pack or some bandages. Of course, I'll recognise that it's not nessarily a Bad Thing (Just Cause 2's health system for example. Without the regenerative element, its many thousands of gunfights will be too frustrating, but it still gives a high priority to health packs if you're hurt.), but for many games it's unsuitable.
I don't particularly have any great love for health bars, but god, at least they work. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it would be wonderful to live in a world where crouching behind a box cures bullet wounds, but when you're trying to be realistic (which is a mistake right away) and the other option is not only just as unrealistic but also makes for crappy gameplay, it's a sure sign that UR DOING IT WRONG.
I totally agree with your views on K&T, it's just really un-intuitive. A lot of games these days are doing that whole low-health flashy red death screen thing, but at least some of them use health bars as well.
I totally agree with your views on K&T, it's just really un-intuitive. A lot of games these days are doing that whole low-health flashy red death screen thing, but at least some of them use health bars as well.
Remember way back in the good old days, when if you screwed up in a fight, you'd have to deal with it for the rest of the level, or spend ten minutes trying to find a health pack? Wasn't that just tons of fun? Oh, right. It wasn't. Sure, regenerating health may not be all that realistic, but it makes games so much less frustrating.gallaetha_matt said:
I don't play a lot of mainstream shooters these days either. I was never good at FPS's when I was using a keyboard and mouse so I'm especially bad with a console controller. I think it's just a skillset that I don't have. I enjoy peripheral vision.Zachary Amaranth said:
Yes, I'm probably the only person in the western world that hasn't played Modern Warfare 2.
So I think I kind of missed the boat when it comes to the lack of health bars in games these days, since it started in the mainstream shooters and bled out into third person action games like Gears Of War. It was a bit of a culture shock for me.
I'm not saying regenerating health is a bad thing, though. It certainly makes a game more accessible. Everybody makes mistakes in action games and gets hit by that odd stray bullet - you shouldn't be punished too severely for bad luck.irishstormtrooper said:
What bothers me is that we can't have regenerating health and a health bar at the same time. Or if not a health bar, at least some measure of how much more damage you can take. The screen changing colour and controller vibrations help to an extent, but it's not exact in the way that a HP counter or glowing red bar would be.
Games can still immersive and still have a HUD, I reckon.
This news gives me a sadness both in and out of my pants. How will I know how many pies my character has to eat to regain his health now?this isnt my name said:
My character in Fable 3 is going to be sooo fat... I hate when games echo real life.
YES! THANK YOU! SOMEONE WHO GETS IT!gallaetha_matt said:
Sorry for the caps.
I play some TPS because they better represent having two eyes and such. Never played any CoD game.
So this is what it feels like when doves cry...Zachary Amaranth said:
I tried to find that Simpsons reference on youtube so the above statement would be in context, but you unearth some disturbing things when you search for the simpsons on youtube...
I played multiplayed on Call of Duty 3 once, it just reaffirmed that there are some of us, like me, who aren't strong in the ways of the frag.
Bad Company 2 does a really good job with it's health system. You can easily see the blood on the SIDE of your screen without it obstructing your vision. Plus, changes in vision (going red and grey) and hearing (ring in your ear) re-ennforce that your hurt and need to heal. Regeneration is gradual (depending if your playing normal or hardcore, in which case there is no regeneration), and thus more realistic.
Still, health bars are good for other games too. In Reach, health will heal, but only to a certain amount. Also realistic.
It all depends on the gameplay style of the game you're playing. Different health mechanics work with different games.
Still, health bars are good for other games too. In Reach, health will heal, but only to a certain amount. Also realistic.
It all depends on the gameplay style of the game you're playing. Different health mechanics work with different games.
feel reassured, i feel the same wayZachary Amaranth said:
i play fps's just fine but its almost a near phobia for me not having peripheral vision, i hate knowing i can see my body in real life and can see at basically a 200 degree angle around me and i can't do that in so many games, and im not even joking either, when i get really drunk and get tunnel visioned i have massive freak out attacks =\
i like the games that still have health bars but let you regenerate a certain ammount of health and not just the whole thing like in transformers WC, mafia 2, red faction 2 (old, i know), etc.
have a mix of both works great for me.
have a mix of both works great for me.
Deadpool's been stealing them all so he can use them to beat people to death in Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
In all honesty, I'm fine with it for run of the mill FPS's.
But for games with RPG elements like Bioshock and Borderlands, I do prefer health bars.
I'm pretty sure its something to do with the fact that health bars are very bland and unintersting, for the most part.
But for games with RPG elements like Bioshock and Borderlands, I do prefer health bars.
I'm pretty sure its something to do with the fact that health bars are very bland and unintersting, for the most part.