Where's the replay value in the new Bioware games?

[Brotherofwill]

I have bought both Mass Effect 2 and DragonAge: Origins. I've had a blast playing through DA:O once and a little less fun completing ME2.

Is it just me or is there hardly any replay values in these titles? As soon as I finished both my interest essentially evaported. I didn't feel the need to start over again and try a different class. So there are a handful of different origin stories? I couldn't care less.

Essentially what makes me replay RPGs is the character progression and both of them were rather stale in that department. I could already experiment with different classes on my companions in DA, the overall system lacked depth in my opinion.

So is that just me? Have you replayed these games? Please don't take offense.

 

[antibonk]

I was the same way, I loved both of those games, put a good 60 hours into each of them, but I haven't bothered to replay them. I can't complain to much since 60 hours of playtime for a game is pretty solid these days. It might have to do with the fact there has been a steady amount of new games coming out now as well, when in years past this time of year was generally dead for new releases. Right now I am playing through Final Fantasy 13 and don't have the time to play more than one game.

 

[SniperWolf427]

Bioware games are, and always have been, more or less visual novels.

That said, all of their games have been fun enough in the actual gameplay in order to be classified as some of the best videogames to date.

I usually beat the game at least twice before growing bored of it. However, due to the numerous mods for Kototr, I've beaten that game countless times.

Honestly, the replay value of them is essentially the same as it would be for any other primarily single-player game.

 

[Wadders]

I can't speak for Dragon Age, beacause unless its LotR, I have an adversion to wizards and elves and such.

However ME2 seems pretty damn re playable to me. I've just started my 4th play through, and I'm still enjoying it a lot. Just trying out different classes, abilities and playstyles is enough for me. Sure the different story options wear a little thin after the 2nd playthrough, but I'm not fussed.

Same goes for Mass Effect 1. Never played Kotor though (shock! horror!) not really a big star wars fan.

 

[Meggiepants]

I find that I can play through these games numerous times. I miss a few things on my first playthrough that I pick up on my second.

I actually think Dragon Age has quite a lot of replay value if you switch sexes. But then, when I play through as a female, I pretty much ignore Leliana. So if I play through as a guy, I have something new to try.

Each to his own I guess.

 

[Meggiepants]

I find that I can play through these games numerous times. I miss a few things on my first playthrough that I pick up on my second.

I actually think Dragon Age has quite a lot of replay value if you switch sexes. But then, when I play through as a female, I pretty much ignore Leliana. So if I play through as a guy, I have something new to try.

Each to his own I guess.

You can romance Leliana as a woman you know...

Well, you can get the song... but there is no tent time for the female PC.

I'm talking tent time romance here. Unless you are referring to a mod. I played it on a console, so no modding for me.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Dragon age is pretty deceptively deep once you dig into it.. A lot of seemingly cosmetic choices tend to have pretty far reaching effects, and certain origins in particular do have quite a lot of influence on the game. If there's a real problem, it's that the game itself is so long even relative to most RPGs that replaying it means a lot of grinding through what is essentially the same story to get at the different bits.

As regards character progression.. The only problem I can see is that specialities were kind of crappily implimented and could be acquired via savegames. There is actually a lot of possible variation in the three classes.. Mages in particular can lead to some radically different builds and playstyles.

EDIT: And yeah, you can sleep with Leliana as a woman (just flirt with her when she talks about your hair to start it off), each sex has two straight and one gay romance options (since both the rogues are bi).

 

[Calatar]

I played through DA:O as a female human warrior (mostly good), then I decided to play again as an elf-male-mage (mostly bad). Turns out I'm bad at sticking to the mostly bad part, just like I was in KotOR. First playthrough I'm light side. Second playthrough I SAY I'm going to be dark-side, but I end up going light side anyways. Third playthrough I actually go dark side.

Anyways, as I was saying, the tactical options are dramatically different depending on your main character and who you pick for support. As a mage I found myself dying a lot. Until I decided "screw the mana pool, I'm getting armor" and went Arcane Warrior. My tactics and choices changed massively with just that decision, and made the game a lot more interesting. Having your mage not be squishy is pretty nice.

But what really added the most replay value for me? Mods, DLC, and Wiki. I tend to play without any guide the first time through, but the second time I try to finish everything and power-play, which means the Wiki and/or guides. If you happen to be interested in buying DLC, it would certainly make you want to play the game again. I happened to just not finish all of Shale's quests, as I found in my replay. I made sure to bring Shale with me to Carridin last time.

Mods just make the game a lot more interesting to mess around with. Here's some of the ones I'm using this run-through:
Extra Tints and Tones (for making prettier characters)
Character Respec (in case you made a bad choice with a character)
Chargen Package (required for some other mods)
Creature Deathblows (more "fancy" synckills in game)
Detailed Tooltips (oh, what a godsend for a mage. Spells get formulaic descriptions)
Realistic Gore (changes the "taco-sauce-spittake" look of the gore to a more realistic one)
Helm-Removal (A bit buggy, but this removes character helms when they're out of combat)
Gift Guide (So you KNOW who to give that stupid statuette to)
More Hairstyles (Needed for other mods, also for prettier characters)
Vibrant Colors (needed for other mods)
Teeth White (Prettier white teeth instead of yellow teeth for your party members)
Morrigan and Leliana Sacred Ashes Appearance (I liked how Leliana looked in Sacred Ashes, didn't like how she looked in the game. The mod made Morrigan's appearance fit her personality a bit better)
High Quality Textures - (Improves the appearance of a lot of things in the game. I think this one might be responsible for some of my crashes though)

And there are so many more around. Of course, adding mods makes DA more likely to crash, but it's still a lot of fun to play around with it.

 

[MisterShine]

So is that just me? Have you replayed these games? Please don't take offense.

I'd say compared to other Bioware games, you most definitely have a point. They're fantastic games, (DA and ME2) but I remember replaying BG2 and Jade Empire about a dozen or so times between them, not to mention KOTOR. As to your point about the origins, I've beaten the game twice with two different origins (City Elf and Human Noble), and wow they felt different. If you haven't done either of those I highly recommend trying them out, they put a lot of emotional investment into the game.

There are some really good mods for DA, and some stand alone adventures that look very promising (pc gaming to the rescue, once again).

Never played Kotor though (shock! horror!) not really a big star wars fan.

Neither was I, but I still think Kotor is one of the best games ever made. If you really dislike the whole universe, just pretend the Force is what they call magic, and lightsabers are just flaming swords. Still a fantastic game, don't let yourself miss it.

 

[Meggiepants]

I find that I can play through these games numerous times. I miss a few things on my first playthrough that I pick up on my second.

I actually think Dragon Age has quite a lot of replay value if you switch sexes. But then, when I play through as a female, I pretty much ignore Leliana. So if I play through as a guy, I have something new to try.

Each to his own I guess.

You can romance Leliana as a woman you know...

Well, you can get the song... but there is no tent time for the female PC.

I'm talking tent time romance here. Unless you are referring to a mod. I played it on a console, so no modding for me.

Hahaha "Tent time"...

You're right. I just didn't assume that's what you meant. You see, there was a bug in my game and my character couldn't romance Leliana because, apparently, she liked me too much too fast...

Are you having me on? This really happened?

 

[Noone From Nowhere]

I find that I can play through these games numerous times. I miss a few things on my first playthrough that I pick up on my second.

I actually think Dragon Age has quite a lot of replay value if you switch sexes. But then, when I play through as a female, I pretty much ignore Leliana. So if I play through as a guy, I have something new to try.

Each to his own I guess.

You can romance Leliana as a woman you know...

Well, you can get the song... but there is no tent time for the female PC.

I'm talking tent time romance here. Unless you are referring to a mod. I played it on a console, so no modding for me.

Actually, you can get the 'Tent Time' with the female PC and Leliana, at least on the X-Box 360 version. I have no idea if Bioware balked on the PC version ala Jade Empire.

As for the topic, the replay value comes in making different choices, especially the mutually exclusive ones, and seeing other ending. If you saved and saw multiple outcomes at a time, that's on you. Other games tend not even to have such an option available in the first place.
The Mass Effect games go one better with the whole 'New Game Plus' feature.

What more does one need to extend re-playability besides that and fun gameplay (which is all most games have to fall back on)? Did older Bioware games have anything else that the new ones are missing (that isn't a matter of taste)?

 

[feeqmatic]

Call me nerdy but I have had a ton of fun with DA, I definately can see that the replay value on ME was limited in that it was a shooter and had little differences in the classes, but in DA the sheer amount of skills and effects really alters thnings, I am on my 3rd play through finally playing through the "legendary" gamebreaking warrior mage build and loving it. Im also using a different set of primary characters. I have even built my characters different, at first I had Morrigan as a enemy destroying DPS mage and now I have her in a root and buff build. Again maybe this is my inner nerd but i definately see the difference and enjoy it. I guess if youre not into the nuance and micro management then it does seem boring and arbitrary.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Re: Leliana, sorry for not quoting..

I seem to remember her quest screws up her dialogue sometimes.. Basically, you have to talk to her a lot before she gets to a certain level of liking you rather than just giving her loads of gifts (which is easy to do as her gifts are everywhere). Just make sure you get to talk about how you've heard Orlesian minstrels are often spies and everything else should fall into place..

But yes, she's perfectly romancable..

That said, I'm totally with the guy above.. There's massively different playstyles possible even within a class and many are equally effective. I've played at least three different types of mages (only one to the end of the game so far, but even at mid-level they all play completely differently). I'm currently thinking of playing through again to try a strength-focused rogue to see if it works.. As for companions, try an arcane-warrior wynne, try building morrigan as a full-time shapeshifer with lots of strength and dexterity.. there's a lot of possibilities even there, and trying things out is what replaying is all about.

 

[Meggiepants]

Actually, you can get the 'Tent Time' with the female PC and Leliana, at least on the X-Box 360 version. I have no idea if Bioware balked on the PC version ala Jade Empire

I played the PS3 version, but I realize what I did wrong now when I looked it up in the wiki. It was the same thing evilthecat did. I got her song, but no romance options ever popped up when talking to her. Most likely for the same reasons he mentions below.

Well, she was a tricky one then. Neither Morrigan or Zevran required any of that level of careful planning to "tent time."

Re: Leliana, sorry for not quoting..

I seem to remember her quest screws up her dialogue sometimes.. Basically, you have to talk to her a lot before she gets to a certain level of liking you rather than just giving her loads of gifts (which is easy to do as her gifts are everywhere). Just make sure you get to talk about how you've heard Orlesian minstrels are often spies and everything else should fall into place..

But yes, she's perfectly romancable and, indeed, if you make the right choices can be coaxed into a (no cutscene) foursome at some point.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I have the PC version and was able to make female to female time with Leliana. Ofcourse I skanked around and slept with as many of them on the one character as I could before I was forced to choose.

C'mon Bio, its a fantasy game, lemme get my freak on with 2 people at the same time.
Yeah I'm taking the "fantasy" a little too literal here.

 

[Meggiepants]

Are you having me on? This really happened?

Yeah, I raised her appreciation of me pretty fast before going through the romantic dialog and I reached a stalemate at some point. I could tell her stuff like how much I loved her at camp and could kiss her, but the conversations went in circles after that and I didn't get the achievement. I then read somewhere that this happened when you get their appreciation too high before initiating their romance.

Yeah, apparently you weren't the only one. I have been made aware I missed out on the tent time due to this exact issue.

Well, no big loss. Leliana was oddly prudish given her back story, prior to the chantry of course. Girl gets to have all her fun before she meets us, but apparently we aren't allowed to sow our oats. She annoyed me a little with her holier than thou attitude on that front.