Why all the hate on FFVII?
- Thread starter ShatterPalm
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I enjoyed FFVII, but the fact that it was way too easy to get overpowered in the game made it kinda boring for the end. An end boss that you can kill at lvl 49 without any problems just kinda... 'eh. I mean, FFV you had to be lvl 55+, and even then it was an interesting fight. (I still found it kinda easy, but then again I used and abused Time Magic with my casters, and was dealing out ridiculous damage with my physical attackers).
Also, Kefka is the most epic FF villain ever. Insane clownman ftw!
Also, Kefka is the most epic FF villain ever. Insane clownman ftw!
This is true. But there was a huge progression from IV -> VI, and then VI -> regressed off a cliff, with fancy new CD technology.
Nah, I like 8-bit tunes and understand the modern trend to have that kind of thing these days since it's manageable to do for small devs.
Duck Tales' OST is a product of its time as well.
But when VII came out, I was appalled at the drop from VI to VII. Wasn't CD technology supposed to allow for bigger & better samples? You're telling me they crammed such good instruments into a cart and then didn't have enough space on a CD for something even as good?
While there are those who applaud effort, just because you do something hard doesn't mean it should be commended.
If I burned a souffle, would you laud me just for trying?
Oh, I didn't say VII was confusing. It might be. I just don't very much of it; that's how much of an impression it made on me. Also I had to put something in about story progression. :\
Hmm.
Ah, I see, on page 49, 5 people. Cor blimey. It's been a while, Cecil. You have a funny hat.
...
So, I see there was a drop from IV -> VI. (Bad, VI!) But to get another drop?
By that decreasing standard, we should be happy if we got to control a single character by the time XI rolled around!
Page 29 (Config Screen):
Controller: "While Final Fantasy III is generally a single-player game, you can use the Controller option to set the game up for use with two controllers in fighting scenes. The multi-controller feature allows you to assign individual fighters to Controller 1 or Controller 2."
Didn't you play with friends/siblings? Not exactly a difficult feature to implement. :\
I'm not that far in P3 myself.
And I'm playing in Japanese, so that's also a bit of a hurdle.
Wait, you're not going to say anything about VII? Why not?
To be completely fair, quite a few Final Fantasy games can be exploited so easily.Retosa said:I enjoyed FFVII, but the fact that it was way too easy to get overpowered in the game made it kinda boring for the end. An end boss that you can kill at lvl 49 without any problems just kinda... 'eh. I mean, FFV you had to be lvl 55+, and even then it was an interesting fight. (I still found it kinda easy, but then again I used and abused Time Magic with my casters, and was dealing out ridiculous damage with my physical attackers).
Also, Kefka is the most epic FF villain ever. Insane clownman ftw!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i5NPjsL8Qg
Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X are just as easy to exploit as well, if I recall correctly.
Old argument, simple explanation:GiantRaven said:
People look at a popular game, look at the fandom and decide that clearly, with such a fandom, the game must be shit.
With the mountains of praise FFVII gets, a lot of people decide to be the very antithesis, somehow outweighting the undeserved love by equally undeserved hatred.
It's really not about being cool, rebellious or just not mainstream, it's just a way to distance oneself from a particular and usually very vocal fandom.
I bet quite a few people liked FFVII and did a 180 once they looked up videos on youtube.
Because if they liked the game, they would be in the same group as those people.
One might call this wanting to be "cool, rebellious or just not mainstream", but I think the underlying reasons are different.
More of a self-esteem issue than anything else really.
It's easily the dumbest internet phenomenon there is, which will probably continue for all eternity.
Oh, how great would a world be where noone uttered the words "Hater" or "Fanboy", where an opinion would be just that and not some arbitrary affiliation outing...
Oh yeah, the game:
Neither the best game ever nor the best in the series, but still a solid title, I liked it.
Number 4 in my FF ranking.
*Glares*DeadProxy said:FalloutJack said:
Doesn't even count.
That's expected when you make such a huge move.justforonethread said:
CDs were explored much less than carts in video games, so of course there's less knowledge about CDs.
But there are clear ingredients to make a souffle, if you knew the steps then you shouldn't fail in making said souffle. Like I said, 3D wasn't a well explored concept back in the day. Yeah, it aged horribly, but that happens with everything when it's just being explored. Final Fantasy I on the NES is as ugly as sin, but it's supposed to be expected when your competitors are two lines and a dot and a text screen.
(for lack of a better comparison)
RPGs always seemed like more of a single-player experience to me. I never thought it was that big of a deal to have a 2-player option, it's akin to just handing your partner the controller or asking him what you should do with Rafa or Malak.
Because the FF community is more torn on opinions of VII. There are people who hated the whole cast, and there were people who liked almost everyone, with the exception of Cait Sith or Yuffie.
The vocal minority is so vocal about it because most people that really really really really really really like FF7 are looking at it through nostalgia goggles, rather than actually judging it based on it's merits and flaws. It was a really good game at the time. It certainly wasn't perfect though, and going back to play it again years and years later made me realize that.
That doesn't make any sense. Red book audio. Or just use the space like space was used before: for good samples.
Space = space. Other than that, it affects loading time and sync but come on, this is music we're talking about here.
Then they could have stayed with the basic recipe (replaced sprites with polygons and not messed with crazy angles until they understood how the new oven worked). If I don't get a pass for screwing up my souffle with pickles and fudge, neither does Square.
Irrelevant to me but that sounds like people remembering it being better than it was.
Kind of like how when Goldeneye came out on N64 and people asked me to play but I said I couldn't because the framerate hurt my eyes and when people go back to look at it now, they also say the framerate hurts their eyes.
Remember, though, I didn't like VII the year it was released.
Why have a 2-player mode in Super Mario Bros (1)?
It's more fun to say this is MY character than toss the controller back and forth.
I can really say for certain since I personally haven't played it, but from what I heard I think it is because the shift in focus of the gameplay.
It went from strategy to spectacle and a lot of people are not very amused by pretty colors when they have to sit through it every turn of every battle.
It went from strategy to spectacle and a lot of people are not very amused by pretty colors when they have to sit through it every turn of every battle.
I've honestly never played FFVII, or any Final Fantasy game for that matter. But from what I've seen, at least, the primary factor seems to be hype backlash; I myself find it ever-so-slightly annoying that question of best JRPG is so frequently met with "FFVII". Come on, guys. Chrono Trigger is where it's at.
1) For many, FF VII was the first RPG they ever played (5th gen == arguably the beginning of mainstream due to Sony marketing)
2) The first RPG you play will always leave a humongous impact, even more so if it is actually a pretty good game (and the first in the series to use polygons and pre-rendered backgrounds).
3) Thus, Final Fantasy VII became very popular and hyped - more than it was actually worth. I mean, the introduction of the materia-system definitely deserved some kudos, but not THAT much.
4) So you could say the game was 'over-hyped'.
5) And people don't like it when things get more praise than they deserve.
---- the end ----
2) The first RPG you play will always leave a humongous impact, even more so if it is actually a pretty good game (and the first in the series to use polygons and pre-rendered backgrounds).
3) Thus, Final Fantasy VII became very popular and hyped - more than it was actually worth. I mean, the introduction of the materia-system definitely deserved some kudos, but not THAT much.
4) So you could say the game was 'over-hyped'.
5) And people don't like it when things get more praise than they deserve.
---- the end ----
Actually, I found that if you overlevelled early on in FFVIII the game got harder due to level scaling. Diablos was the most obvious instance of this, as he scaled RIDICULOUSLY per level.Defense said:To be completely fair, quite a few Final Fantasy games can be exploited so easily.Retosa said:I enjoyed FFVII, but the fact that it was way too easy to get overpowered in the game made it kinda boring for the end. An end boss that you can kill at lvl 49 without any problems just kinda... 'eh. I mean, FFV you had to be lvl 55+, and even then it was an interesting fight. (I still found it kinda easy, but then again I used and abused Time Magic with my casters, and was dealing out ridiculous damage with my physical attackers).
Also, Kefka is the most epic FF villain ever. Insane clownman ftw!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i5NPjsL8Qg
Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X are just as easy to exploit as well, if I recall correctly.
Also, FFX was boring easy. <.< I never found it difficult at all. Ever.
I think a big part of the problem here is that people who played the game when it first came out on the PS1 have built it up so much that when people who have become gamers since then or missed the original release go back to play it, it can't possibly live up to the hype. Part of its initial appeal was based on its graphics, which were state of the art for an RPG at the time, and they haven't aged well. The story is also nowhere near as good, relative to the average game story, now as it was then. The plot and characters may be good for a video game, at least at the time, but they're not the pinnacle of story telling that people looking back at it make it out to be.
People feeling cool because they hate popular things may be part of it, but I think this kind of backlash against the impossibly high expectations its fan-base have created for people is the main cause. Another part of it might be people who have come to hate the whole franchise based on other entries and don't necessarily give seven a fair chance.
Honestly, though, it was a good game for its time but I don't think it's aged very well and there are better RPGs and better stories even just on the PS1.
People feeling cool because they hate popular things may be part of it, but I think this kind of backlash against the impossibly high expectations its fan-base have created for people is the main cause. Another part of it might be people who have come to hate the whole franchise based on other entries and don't necessarily give seven a fair chance.
Honestly, though, it was a good game for its time but I don't think it's aged very well and there are better RPGs and better stories even just on the PS1.
From strictly a gameplay-design perspective, this is probably the #1 problem I have with the series from FF7 onward. The "Tabula-Rosa" style of character design betrays the unique appeal each character is supposed to bring.Chibz said:
Materia determines almost the entirely of that character's mechanical role in FF7 (with the only other serious metric being whether their weapons are ranged or melee) and because of this no character really feels unique. Their unique skills are relegated to their Limit Breaks, and towards the end of the game you shouldn't be using Limits all that often.
This design process is essentially copied for use in FF8, FF10 (international version), FF12, and FF13.
FF6 and FF9 have (IMO) more compelling characters because their abilities reflect their area of expertise. Sabin was amazingly strong and even a bit of a smart-ass hothead. Freya was a member of an order of lancers turned mercenary (for personal reasons), so she comes across as a professional in most of her dialog.
What makes Zell any different from Squall in terms of combat? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Their limit breaks are about combo hits. Apart from the uniqueness of the design, a Gunblade offers absolutely no measurable advantage over, say, a sectioned staff, chain whip or kung-fu.
And you know what? Those other bit characters really aren't all that interesting or compelling otherwise. I actually remembered Laguna better than the main characters.
The same argument could be made for the entirety of the main cast of FF12. Really, the game feels more like a pleasure cruise for 6 well-armed medieval nobodies.
FF10...it depends on which version you play. Though even in that game the character with the least defined MECHANICAL role (Kimari) is easily the most forgettable.
This design process is essentially copied for use in FF8, FF10 (international version), FF12, and FF13.
FF6 and FF9 have (IMO) more compelling characters because their abilities reflect their area of expertise. Sabin was amazingly strong and even a bit of a smart-ass hothead. Freya was a member of an order of lancers turned mercenary (for personal reasons), so she comes across as a professional in most of her dialog.
What makes Zell any different from Squall in terms of combat? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Their limit breaks are about combo hits. Apart from the uniqueness of the design, a Gunblade offers absolutely no measurable advantage over, say, a sectioned staff, chain whip or kung-fu.
And you know what? Those other bit characters really aren't all that interesting or compelling otherwise. I actually remembered Laguna better than the main characters.
The same argument could be made for the entirety of the main cast of FF12. Really, the game feels more like a pleasure cruise for 6 well-armed medieval nobodies.
FF10...it depends on which version you play. Though even in that game the character with the least defined MECHANICAL role (Kimari) is easily the most forgettable.
The one thing I really did like about FF7 is the core story between Cloud, TIFA, and Sephiroth. Aeris was more of a McGuffin than anything, but at least she was a well-made McGuffin. Really, Aeris was meant to distract the player from the far more important interaction between Cloud and Tifa.
Well, ok, I liked the cyberpunk-esque world of FF7, but that part has been expanded on to the point of silliness in the Compilation.
Personally, I just dislike JRPG's as a whole.
They seem silly to me, and lack what I deem a good story (with a message and meaning behind it).
I know I'm throwing a big blanket over everything-there are no absolutes-and even I do enjoy Kingdom Hearts, on occasion.
But as a whole, I dislike them. Not as much as sports games though.
They seem silly to me, and lack what I deem a good story (with a message and meaning behind it).
I know I'm throwing a big blanket over everything-there are no absolutes-and even I do enjoy Kingdom Hearts, on occasion.
But as a whole, I dislike them. Not as much as sports games though.