Why all the sudden sexism/feminism?

[Ecreag91]

EDIT: FIRST TOPIC; How, if at all, have games that have been made in the last 5 years have been sexist?


I actually felt the need to revive this account because of how prevalent this topic has become. So using ONLY the Dictionary.com definition of these two words (sexism and feminism)can you present your case? Note I am not the ultimate judge in this and I probably will fall to a bias I only ask that when you do present your case you maintain civility and not attack anyone directly for the opinions they hold (because lets be honest attacking someone on the internet for their opinion is about as useful to the progression of the human race as masturbation it might be fun for a little while but it ultimately gets us no where. JOKES!)

Anywho the definitions of these words are:

Sexism:
sex·ism   [sek-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles.
2.
discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities; especially, such discrimination directed against women.

Feminism:
fem·i·nism   [fem-uh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women.

If you feel another word needs to be properly defined so that were not arguing over the objectivity involved then let me know and I'll add it.

Come on internet and fellow gamers lets try and show the world that we can be adults!
So... any takers that want to get the ball rolling I assume people will start on the topic of sexualization in video games of (gender)?

 

[Ecreag91]

Hmm maybe I should get it started seeing as its my thread... ok then on one hand I can understand that video games do have a gross over sexualized(sp?) take on women and yes in some rare cases men as well but men as a whole arent as prone to feel the body image issues that women do. However, I can see why the companies do it i.e. their games still sell, the artists probably play a part the lack of writing qaulity etc etc but they still make money and bringing all this attention because of one or two games is just free publicity for them. (think deadspace 2's campaign remember? "Your mom will hate this..." they used negative reactions to spark interest because thats what controversy does)

So anyone want to take a side

sidenote sorry to anyone that already posted an argument in this and let me be ignored if Im speaking second here

 

[CODE-D]

Im quite tired of sexuality hot topic. I mean sexuality exists and marketing knows this and uses it. Dont like how creator or entertainment portrays a sex? try my step by step program-

1. not care
2. get over it
3. pick up a different medium that you feel portrays sex "the right way"
4. know that there is no right way
5. know to not take marketing seriously and let the product stand on its own merit
6. dont make a thread forum about the objectification of peoples in mediums especially videogames especially that of females in games for they are objects made of data and pixels. here at the escapist its been done....
7.If you still cant get over it, try making your own thing or ignore my number 6 and do what everyone else does.....go to the internet and complain.
8. and finally know that internet complaints accomplish nothing (especially in forums) most of the time. like 99.999999% and 100% against a successful product.

 

[Ecreag91]

Thank you for a reply and helping start the debate,

That being said I'm trying really hard to not take a side and kind of be middle of the road but to clarify I'm not saying that it isn't sexist and im not saying that it cant/wont be changed I was trying to offer or explain why just sayin that "its sexist!" doesnt really mean anything. I'm a firm believer that words are nothing without actions.

Not sure if I clarified or just bullshitted myself until I thought it was good enough...


also I guess I'm just trying to prod or beg the questions I want to play the role of giving direction to the debate more than participant but I'm warning that I will probably bias at one point or another and invite you or anyone else to politely call me out so I can try to stay unbiased.

Still not sure...

 

[CODE-D]

Hmm maybe I should get it started seeing as its my thread... ok then on one hand I can understand that video games do have a gross over sexualized(sp?) take on women and yes in some rare cases men as well but men as a whole arent as prone to feel the body image issues that women do. However, I can see why the companies do it i.e. their games still sell, the artists probably play a part the lack of writing qaulity etc etc but they still make money and bringing all this attention because of one or two games is just free publicity for them. (think deadspace 2's campaign remember? "Your mom will hate this..." they used negative reactions to spark interest because thats what controversy does)

So anyone want to take a side

sidenote sorry to anyone that already posted an argument in this and let me be ignored if Im speaking second here

You're not very clear on what your point is. Okay, let's assume what you say is true. So what? Is that supposed to mean it isn't sexist?

you again, where is your avatar from?

 

[Ecreag91]

Thank you for a reply and helping start the debate,

That being said I'm trying really hard to not take a side and kind of be middle of the road but to clarify I'm not saying that it isn't sexist and im not saying that it cant/wont be changed I was trying to offer or explain why just sayin that "its sexist!" doesnt really mean anything. I'm a firm believer that words are nothing without actions.

Well I think the whole topic in general is kind of unclear. You asked us to present our case on the topic of sexualization in video games(at least to start). What're we supposed to be saying about it? Whether it's sexist or not(which the definition thing might suggest as the topic)? What should be done about it?

And yeah, just saying it's sexist won't do anything, but what are we trying to determine here?

Not sure if I clarified or just bullshitted myself until I thought it was good enough...


also I guess I'm just trying to prod or beg the questions I want to play the role of giving direction to the debate more than participant but I'm warning that I will probably bias at one point or another and invite you or anyone else to politely call me out so I can try to stay unbiased.

Still not sure...

I think it needs a bit more direction honestly.

Valid. That being said the first topic:
How are games that have been made in the last 5 years sexist or are they at all? (better?)

 

[yeti585]

The definition of sexism you used is well, sexist. I'm not blaming you, but it is. I don't see how you can define a word as discrimination based on sex, but also put that it especially applies to women being discriminated against. Also, by that definition over sexualized characters are not sexist, Nor are the strong warmongering female characters. By that definition of feminism, it is sexist. What about the places where males get the short end of the stick? For example, child custody. I'm going to coin the term equalist/equalism, to be defined as:

The movement or idea that both sexes should have equal social, political, and other rights.

 

[Ecreag91]

The definition of sexism you used is well, sexist. I'm not blaming you, but it is. I don't see how you can define a word as discrimination based on sex, but also put that it especially applies to women being discriminated against. Also, by that definition over sexualized characters are not sexist, Nor are the strong warmongering female characters. By that definition of feminism, it is sexist. What about the places where males get the short end of the stick? For example, child custody. I'm going to coin the term equalist/equalism, to be defined as:

The movement or idea that both sexes should have equal social, political, and other rights.

I like the word you're trying to coin good sir and or madame but as I said those definitions are simply what those words are as defined by dictionary.com not myself(not that I took it that way). The purpose of having it defined to to remove objectivity from the argument of "that's sexist" or "Feminist bullshit" (how ive seen them commonly used but they are not necessarily the views of myself or my network)

Simply put its to give people a mark for which they can measure if something stands up to the presented definition feel free to messege me a better one and I would gladly edit it.

 

[yeti585]

So on to the topic in the OP. Sexism in video games. I honestly can not say I see a lot of it but I may be looking wrong. By the definition of sexism we are using Lara Croft is not sexist, she is the opposite. She should be a feminist icon!

-She isn't afraid to be a sexual character where as gender roles push women toward purity and control
-She's strong, gender roles would say that a woman is weak
(I honestly don't know much about her as I've never played a Tomb Raider game)

 

[Ecreag91]

So on to the topic in the OP. Sexism in video games. I honestly can not say I see a lot of it but I may be looking wrong. By the definition of sexism we are using Lara Croft is not sexist, she is the opposite. She should be a feminist icon!

-She isn't afraid to be a sexual character where as gender roles push women toward purity and control
-She's strong, gender roles would say that a woman is weak
(I honestly don't know much about her as I've never played a Tomb Raider game)

Nor have I played a tomb raider game. but I have noticed that Tomb Raider and Hitman seem to be the two driving games. Anyone like to explain why these (are/are not) sexist?

 

[Vault101]

Im quite tired of sexuality hot topic. I mean sexuality exists and marketing knows this and uses it. Dont like how creator or entertainment portrays a sex? try my step by step program-

1. not care
2. get over it
3. pick up a different medium that you feel portrays sex "the right way"
4. know that there is no right way
5. know to not take marketing seriously and let the product stand on its own merit
6. dont make a thread forum about the objectification of peoples in mediums especially videogames especially that of females in games for they are objects made of data and pixels. here at the escapist its been done....
7.If you still cant get over it, try making your own thing or ignore my number 6 and do what everyone else does.....go to the internet and complain.
8. and finally know that internet complaints accomplish nothing (especially in forums) most of the time. like 99.999999% and 100% against a successful product.

while I can get that this whole "sexism" thing is running rampant but to simply say "problem? there's no problem!" is completly missing the point
because like it or not there are "probelms" (if you want to call them that)

 

[Vault101]

Nor have I played a tomb raider game. but I have noticed that Tomb Raider and Hitman seem to be the two driving games. Anyone like to explain why these (are/are not) sexist?

1.Hitman uses sexy nuns in an over the top kind of way..which doesnt even make logical sense in context of whats going on....I find it silly, some ofund it offenseive...its defetly silly how offensive you do/don;t find it

2. in Tomb raider Lara gets alot of abuse...but the main thing was ome "implied" rape which I feel wasn't out of place and blown out of propotian

what some people don't understand is that seeing a charachter struggle helps us to empathise with them..IMO anyway

 

[Ecreag91]

Im quite tired of sexuality hot topic. I mean sexuality exists and marketing knows this and uses it. Dont like how creator or entertainment portrays a sex? try my step by step program-

1. not care
2. get over it
3. pick up a different medium that you feel portrays sex "the right way"
4. know that there is no right way
5. know to not take marketing seriously and let the product stand on its own merit
6. dont make a thread forum about the objectification of peoples in mediums especially videogames especially that of females in games for they are objects made of data and pixels. here at the escapist its been done....
7.If you still cant get over it, try making your own thing or ignore my number 6 and do what everyone else does.....go to the internet and complain.
8. and finally know that internet complaints accomplish nothing (especially in forums) most of the time. like 99.999999% and 100% against a successful product.

while I can get that this whole "sexism" thing is running rampant but to simply say "problem? there's no problem!" is completly missing the point
because like it or not there are "probelms" (if you want to call them that)

Quick warning for ya Vault your kind of off topic, care to make a point with examples that we can analyse?

EDIT: nevermind lol

 

[Vault101]

Quick warning for ya Vault your kind of off topic, care to make a point with examples that we can analyse?

EDIT: nevermind lol

I'm not off topic, I'm responsing directly to what somone has said

 

[Ecreag91]

Nor have I played a tomb raider game. but I have noticed that Tomb Raider and Hitman seem to be the two driving games. Anyone like to explain why these (are/are not) sexist?

1.Hitman uses sexy nuns in an over the top kind of way..which doesnt even make logical sense in context of whats going on....I find it silly, some ofund it offenseive...its defetly silly how offensive you do/don;t find it

2. in Tomb raider Lara gets alot of abuse...but the main thing was ome "implied" rape which I feel wasn't out of place and blown out of propotian

what some people don't understand is that seeing a charachter struggle helps us to empathise with them..IMO anyway

That is a valid point and further, Saints Row 3 exists so sometimes silly things are just silly things but is this one of those times that their a big brown dick? (george Carlin joke about cigars for the uninformed)