Why America?

[Lukirre]

The person who killed that doctor was pro-life, that doesn't mean they were religious, and it's quite ignorant of you to assume they must be.

Is it really though? I bet 99% of pro-lifers will tell you they're like that because "God" says that "life is sacred".
I mean really, what reason could an atheist have to not like abortion (excluding personal experiences)?

Then you'd lose your bet.

As SCAMola said, please explain what you're going on about.
You've said nothing in here other than "You've got no proof he's religious", which is simply a backwards argument, because you have presented no proof saying that he is not.

The facts that have been presented in this thread do more to support the idea that he is religious than the idea that he isn't.

Killed in a church, a doctor who specialized in abortion, etc.

You can't say "YER IGNANT" because someone came to the conclusion that he was religious based off of those facts.
Because dear oh dear, how did we possibly get that idea?

 

[Barry93]

Late term abortions are cruel whether your pro-choice or pro-life.
And it doesn't mean he's a religous extremist, just an angry religous man.

You have no proof that he is religous.

I didn't mean he was a religous extremist, I'm just assuming he's religous because anyone who goes to church is obviously religous, and if you kill a doctor who performs late term abortion, then it's common sense that the killer is pro-life. So i guess that it's no actual proof, but anyone with the abililty to reason can determine the killer is probably religous. That doesn't matter anyway, imo killing babies at that stage is a good enough reason for killing someone. what i don't understand is why anyone would wait that long to get an abortion anyway.

faulty argument. i can't remember the exact term, but i'll give you an example of why this is flawed.

a) some people are religious, b) it is known that some religious people are pro-life
this must mean that all people who are religious must also be pro-life

You're saying that a) some men like video-games, and b) some men like beer
so a)+b) must mean that all people who like videogames like beer

this is SO not true.

As I've already said, whether the killer was religous or not does not mean anything. I said he is probably religous because it happened at church and he is pro life. I'm not trying to accuse the killer of being a religous extremist or accusing him at all for that matter.

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

The person who killed that doctor was pro-life, that doesn't mean they were religious, and it's quite ignorant of you to assume they must be.

Is it really though? I bet 99% of pro-lifers will tell you they're like that because "God" says that "life is sacred".
I mean really, what reason could an atheist have to not like abortion (excluding personal experiences)?

Ho ho ho, wait up a second here - this is a "when does life begin" debate, not a religious belief debate.
While it still holds true that life beginning at conception is often coined with roman-catholics, athiests can also believe that life begins at this stage as there is no scientific fact to prove otherwise.

Lets cut out the religion bashing assumption and move on to a more constructive debate, ktnxbye.

And I'm sure a lot of atheist who believe life begins at conception still don't give a flyin' shit and are pro-abortion anyway.

and i am sure a lot of roman catholics also have abortions...
and a lot of athiests are pro-life.

Everybody wins.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

There are more people in the EU than in the USA.

I just wondered why we seem to see more of the anit-gay, anti-evolution, anti-abortion style Christians in the US than in Europe? Is it media bias or are there more of these people in America and if so why america and not Europe?

America is a majority christian country with a christian culture so the law of averages means more Christian fundamentalists and less Hindu or Muslim fundamenalists.

So are all the countries of the EU IIRC

 

[pewpewz]

The person who killed that doctor was pro-life, that doesn't mean they were religious, and it's quite ignorant of you to assume they must be.

Is it really though? I bet 99% of pro-lifers will tell you they're like that because "God" says that "life is sacred".
I mean really, what reason could an atheist have to not like abortion (excluding personal experiences)?

Ho ho ho, wait up a second here - this is a "when does life begin" debate, not a religious belief debate.
While it still holds true that life beginning at conception is often coined with roman-catholics, athiests can also believe that life begins at this stage as there is no scientific fact to prove otherwise.

Lets cut out the religion bashing assumption and move on to a more constructive debate, ktnxbye.

And I'm sure a lot of atheist who believe life begins at conception still don't give a flyin' shit and are pro-abortion anyway.

and i am sure a lot of roman catholics also have abortions...
and a lot of athiests are pro-life.

Everybody wins.

I'm just trying to cut out this religious stereotyping. It could have been an ironic killing - if the killer was athiest and the doctor was religious (hence being in a church)...

"Where's your God now??!?!?!"

 

[Lukirre]

faulty argument. i can't remember the exact term, but i'll give you an example of why this is flawed.

a) some people are religious, b) it is known that some religious people are pro-life
this must mean that all people who are religious must also be pro-life

You're saying that a) some men like video-games, and b) some men like beer
so a)+b) must mean that all people who like videogames like beer

this is SO not true.

Uhhhhhhhh, no.

A) Some people are religious, B) It is known that religion will teach ideals to its followers that life is not something that can be taken away while the baby is still forming. (AKA: Pro-life theory).
This must mean that all people who practice a religion have been exposed to, and are more likely, to be pro-life due to their teachings and moral values based off their religion.

Your comparison is so flawed.

It would be closer if you said "All men who like videogames like beer".
And you also should have chosen something that preaches part B, the same way Part A (Religion), taught Part B (Pro-life theory) in the first example.

 

[Worr Monger]

Lets not forget America was essentially colonized by prudish, religious Puritans.... I attribute this to my country's religious craze.

 

[Mackinator]

The person who killed that doctor was pro-life, that doesn't mean they were religious, and it's quite ignorant of you to assume they must be.

Is it really though? I bet 99% of pro-lifers will tell you they're like that because "God" says that "life is sacred".
I mean really, what reason could an atheist have to not like abortion (excluding personal experiences)?

Abortions can cause veeeeery serious grievances for some people in later life.
They dont necessarily have to believe in "God's sacred life" to think that killing a live soon-to-be human is wrong.

Back to the question and I find that people are generally a lot more religious in the US than in some European countries- and people who have their religion really believe in it.

Back to the question

 

[sallene]

Lets not forget America was essentially colonized by prudish, religious Puritans.... I attribute this to my country's religious craze.

correction -
Prudish, religous purtians escaping persecution.


say that 5 times fast.

 

[pewpewz]

faulty argument. i can't remember the exact term, but i'll give you an example of why this is flawed.

a) some people are religious, b) it is known that some religious people are pro-life
this must mean that all people who are religious must also be pro-life

You're saying that a) some men like video-games, and b) some men like beer
so a)+b) must mean that all people who like videogames like beer

this is SO not true.

Uhhhhhhhh, no.

A) Some people are religious, B) It is known that religion will teach ideals to its followers that life is not something that can be taken away while the baby is still forming. (AKA: Pro-life theory).
This must mean that all people who practice a religion have been exposed to, and are more likely, to be pro-life due to their teachings and moral values based off their religion.

Your comparison is so flawed.

It would be closer if you said "All men who like videogames like beer".
And you also should have chosen something that preaches part B, the same way Part A (Religion), taught Part B (Pro-life theory) in the first example.

ohnoes i made a typo. i must be an idiot now, right?

come on, just because religion 'can' and is 'more likely' to teach pro-life, doesn't mean non-religious people can't share the same views. that was my point.

 

[pewpewz]

The person who killed that doctor was pro-life, that doesn't mean they were religious, and it's quite ignorant of you to assume they must be.

Is it really though? I bet 99% of pro-lifers will tell you they're like that because "God" says that "life is sacred".
I mean really, what reason could an atheist have to not like abortion (excluding personal experiences)?

Abortions can cause veeeeery serious grievances for some people in later life.
They dont necessarily have to believe in "God's sacred life" to think that killing a live soon-to-be human is wrong.

Back to the question and I find that people are generally a lot more religious in the US than in some European countries- and people who have their religion really believe in it.

Back to the question

<3 you

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

"Where's your God now??!?!?!"

You silly goose, that's not how you do it.

This is how you do it.

 

[Lukirre]

ohnoes i made a typo. i must be an idiot now, right?

come on, just because religion 'can' and is 'more likely' to teach pro-life, doesn't mean non-religious people can't share the same views. that was my point.

Your typo wasn't the problem with your post.

I understand what your point was.
You were arguing that they were being "stereotyped" (the term you were looking for at the beginning of the original argument).

What I was saying is that it is fair assumption to believe that whoever comitted the murder was religious. America is known for its religious background, and you cannot deny that the majority of people who speak at pro-life movements, and are involved in pro-life movements, have a highly religious background.

 

[pewpewz]

"Where's your God now??!?!?!"

You silly goose, that's not how you do it.

This is how you do it.

oh noes, i sorry!

 

[pewpewz]

ohnoes i made a typo. i must be an idiot now, right?

come on, just because religion 'can' and is 'more likely' to teach pro-life, doesn't mean non-religious people can't share the same views. that was my point.

Your typo wasn't the problem with your post.

I understand what your point was.
You were arguing that they were being "stereotyped" (the term you were looking for at the beginning of the original argument).

What I was saying is that it is fair assumption to believe that whoever comitted the murder was religious. America is known for its religious background, and you cannot deny that the majority of people who speak at pro-life movements, and are involved in pro-life movements, have a highly religious background.

yes, but it's still an 'assumption'. and this 'assumption' is already having damaging effects on the general view of religious beliefs. is it now safe to 'assume' that you're an atheist who rips up bibles? is homosexual?
no of course not, that'd be ridiculous.
which is why writing the murderer off as religious straight away is also ridiculous. maybe he is? but what if he's not...
these 'assumptions' are just plain dumb.

also i was relating to a 'theory of knowledge' term for argument deduction. lemme just go find it for you so i can prove i know big words.

 

[pewpewz]

as quoted from wikipedia - here's the argument style i was thinking of

"Corresponding Conditional"

e.g.

All Greeks are human and all humans are mortal; therefore, all Greeks are mortal. : Valid argument; if the premises are true the conclusion must be true.

Some Greeks are logicians and some logicians are tiresome; therefore, some Greeks are tiresome. Invalid argument: the tiresome logicians might all be Romans (for example).

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Triple Post

Dude, there's an edit button in the bottom right corner of your posts...just sayin'

 

[Lukirre]

yes, but it's still an 'assumption'. and this 'assumption' is already having damaging effects on the general view of religious beliefs. is it now safe to 'assume' that you're an atheist who rips up bibles? is homosexual?
no of course not, that'd be ridiculous.
which is why writing the murderer off as religious straight away is also ridiculous. maybe he is? but what if he's not...
these 'assumptions' are just plain dumb.

also i was relating to a 'theory of knowledge' term for argument deduction. lemme just go find it for you so i can prove i know big words.

I think I've proved that I'm not, as many others are not, writing the murder off "right away" as being religious.
I've considered the facts, and I've placed my arguments in correlation to what logically makes sense.
The "damaging effects" placed upon the general view of religious belief are only there because of what individuals of the religion chose to do to it.
When a multitude of people exemplify certain traits that they proclaim to be tied in to their religion (I.e- being homophobic), is it really that far out to say "these people really seem to dislike homosexual folks."

No.
It isn't.

It's the same case here.
It's not far out to believe that religious people dislike the practice of abortion.
Nor is it unfair to say that the United States has had a large number of killings comitted for religious reasons.

I don't see how thinking the murderer is religious would be detrimental to the religion.
The only people who take those things too far are the extremists on the other side.

Oh, but hey now, extremists don't represent the views.

 

[Ignignoct]

This is a response to the thread discussing the most recent murder of an doctor specialising in abortions.
Why has America in recent years under gone this revival of religious extremism. It certainly exists in Europe but only as a minority group. Why do you think the USA has such a particularly strong, fundamentalist movement? Why are doctors being killed in the USA but not in Europe? What is it about living in the US that makes you want to become a religious extremist?

Self-professed atheists/agnostics have doubled in the last 10 years.

Richard Dawkins and Chris Hitchens are working on making that percent triple-digit =p.

 

[UltimatheChosen]

Why has America in recent years under gone this revival of religious extremism.

It hasn't. The extremists are just the ones you hear from, since a headline like "90% of Americans are not religious extremists". It's an issue of statistics. Even if only 1% of Americans were extremists, that's still three million people. And three million extremists can make a lot of noise (figuratively speaking).

There are more people in the EU than in the USA.

The news tends to report on the EU as separate nations. And also, I'm assuming there is some media bias, since the US tends to act more unilaterally, and therefore gets more attention.