There's a lot to respond to, so I'm going to follow your cue and pick what I feel is another point we can agree on.
KissingSunlight said:
I actually have a theory about that. I got a feeling that this will upset more people. You have been warned.
There have been a shift of perspective about victimhood. Being a victim, in the past, was something to avoid. If you were a victim, it was something you don't talk about. It certainly wasn't something you brag about or have pride being. Now, people "honor" and "celebrate" victims. People look at being a victim as a positive thing. In fact, the whole Identity Politics philosophy is about segregating people into different classes of victimhood. God Forbid! You actually hold the "victim" to any kind of accountability. That would be "victim shaming". Notice all the people getting upset over the word "criminal". What kind of monster would say that the person that was shot by the police actually committed any crime? Don't you dare slander a "victim" like that. Regardless how true it is. I'm sure he/she had a morally pure reason why they broke the law.
I've been saying stuff like this for years, actually.
It's the mentality for most people nowadays. I believe that's why so many Conservatives or Liberals, Different races, Atheists or faithfuls CAN NOT concede anything because it will allow their precious victimhood to slip through their fingers. It's like another poster said, everyone loves and roots for the underdog. And there are no bigger underdogs than victims.
And that's where people diverge. Because there are plenty of people who have no shortage of power or people's support who still want to claim victimhood. It feels disingenuous. And it turns certain opinions against them.
While I have a a lot of problems with police, I don't think they are all racists who are going out and tallying every minority they shoot with glee. It's a ridiculous idea. We don't live in a (excuse the pun) Black and White world. We're firmly in the gray. While I trust my life only to me and my family, I believe that most officers will act in lines of the law so I respect their decisions. Even if they don't suit my purpose.
But the problem arises when someone ask for all the leeway, all the benefits of the doubt, and routinely offers nothing in return. I don't want to disbelieve in cops. Again, I still wish I was one now even with how jaded I am. But with case after case of videos starkly contrasting what the officers are reporting, and then they review the evidence and even though it isn't how the offending officer reported he still will be found not guilty of any wrong doing.
Even if the officer is using a choke hold that is illegal (Eric Garner). Even if the child that the officer "just had" to shoot because his directions were not being followed, but the truth is the child didn't hear any directions due to listening to music on his headphones (Dillon Taylor). Even if they say the victim of their nickel ride was walking fine into the wagon on his own feet, but the video clearly shows the victim bloodied, dazed, unable to move on his own power and hauled into the wagon by officers (Freddie Gray).
And if the police don't wash away their misconduct, the jury will. Because average citizens sympathize more with the cops and their statement, even if we see large schisms between the police official statement and any recordings of how the incident actually occurred. Which is the main problem. Not that cops are human and even in the best of times get the facts wrong, but it seems like the majority of US citizenry rushes to not to hold Police accountable for their actions or potential mistakes, let alone the Police themselves.
Even though I'm largely what someone would call a liberal, I own guns. I hope to never use them, but I own them. I've taken firearm courses to know what I must know if I ever am forced into a situation where I have to use them. And I found out that there are little to no incidents that are cut and dry "Good shoots" (even if I was shooting a man actively raping a woman), I would be brought up on charges and will probably go to jail for it.
Appropriate responses. Is the man going to take her life in that scenario I just brought up? Is the man going to take my life just be seeing it? I don't know that. There's no reasonable conclusion that him actively raping a woman will end with death. So the use of lethal force isn't authorized, even though he deserves to die for doing that. And in fact, just for saying that, I've admitted malice in my heart so it makes it a murder.
I am to physically restrain using no weapons. Why? Because if he's naked and doing that disgusting deed, his threat is limited to his body only. If I bring a weapon, even a stick, I'm the aggressor. I'm left to pulling him off and restraining him.
These are things I know from what little training I have. I have to answer for any life I take. I have to answer for any injury I make, even in protecting my life. And most of the time, people will look at 6'2 me and believe I had other options. Even though in New York State, I'm not allowed to have many less lethal armaments.
Buying Pepper Gel here is impossible. I can only own a collapsible baton if I work in Law Enforcement or as a Security Guard. I can't own a taser (I know they don't work the same way in the movies, but pain is pain) because it 'might induce a heart attack'... but I'm allowed to buy a gun. Someone make sense of the fact that I'm accountable for everything, no matter the circumstances, but I'm not allowed to have options other than a weapon that only function is to take a life. But I will always be responsible even though my only option is a gun, I'm accountable in every way for that life I'm forced to take. You are. Everyone else is.
Except for the cops, it seems often. And that's why people are "Anti-cops". It's not even police as a concept. I honestly think 95% of us think it's a wonderful idea. But when they seem to be Teflon Lords above little things such as accountability, we as a people should fear them. When we are not allowed to question the actions of fellow US citizens, something is wrong. When we can't even video tape incidents that are happening to us because the police officer does not want to be put in that position, but they are allowed to demand anything from us without hesitation to use against us? That is just wrong.
The Georgian Police Chef... we need more like him. No interest in covering. No Spin doctoring. It is what it is. We don't have to know the mindset of the officers in question. It's against regulations and that's that. If we had more of these people speaking up, instead of police chiefs saying a 100 lb woman was so out of control that she deserved to have her face planted into the sidewalk in order to arrest her for resisting arrest (Michaella Surat), I would fear officers less.
Also, I should make a point to stress again that not every cop is a loose cannon. And not every minority shot was due to bias. I strongly don't think this happens every time there's an officer related shooting. There are times that people do fight back with police. There are times that people had every chance to deescalate the situation from their side. But they do not want to work with the Police and act with violence more than sense. As tragic as it is, at times like these they do force the hand of the police, no matter how much we want to be sympathetic to the citizen. Deven Guilford is a good example of that, as there are numerous of others.
And to Dr. Dao? Personally, no, I wouldn't handle it the same way. I've learned a long time ago that even if I yelled for help, none would be forthcoming. But I can understand having three men forcing you to do anything is scary. I get his sentiment, as I know you do as well. I would have handled myself differently. I feel you would as well. But there is more people in this world who just handle things differently. Some things we might be ok with, some things we might feel are distasteful. But that are right for the individual.
