Why are RPGs developed in Europe so unoriginal?

[Eclectic Dreck]

Much as I dislike JRPGS in general I agree that they are often a hell of a lot more diverse and original than the Euro/US/Whatever ones.

I hardly agree. The basic narrative arc of JRPGs and Western RPGs tend to be nothing more than the standard Hero journey. The only difference is who populates the world. In both cases you have archetypal characters aplenty, but the difference is those in Japanese games tend to be at least a bit unfamiliar.

 

[Shock and Awe]

I've never even played an RPG not made in the UK, Canada, US, or Japan.

 

[Bobbovski]

I haven't really played that many European RPGs... but I like Mount and blade. It's a sandbox RPG with a focus on armies/warbands set in a land with a bunch of different kingdoms that trade/fight each other. You usually gather a bunch of soldiers and then you ride around doing whatever you want. The world itself is not very original, it's a european medieval world with european themed kingdoms mixed with a mongolian kingdom and a middle eastern kingdom. But the game play is pretty unique as far as I know. I don't think I've ever seen a game where you can storm a castle before, form your own kingdom or ride into battle with your very own private army.

 

[maturin]

Unfortunately you Europeans have become way to westernized

Err.

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

Seems to be an unfair generalization, but, whatever...

 

[mr_rubino]

A JRPG vs Western RPG thread with a title designed to enrage people? An OP that lumps all WRPGs into the same group and says they suck?

Nice try, but you cannot fool me, troll.

You forgot the animu avatar. She's trying to mirror complaints about JRPGs, but because she can't understand people's gripes with them (because, after all, Japan is God), all she can do is drool out generic statements. Oh how clever.

 

[Irridium]

A JRPG vs Western RPG thread with a title designed to enrage people? An OP that lumps all WRPGs into the same group and says they suck?

Nice try, but you cannot fool me, troll.

How is it a JRPG vs WRPG thread? How is it even worded as such? All he said that is remotely related to it is that its more in need of freshness then JRPG's, which is a debatable topic but is not flamebate unless you decide to flame them for it.
He didn't say all WRPG's, just those developed in Europe, and gave examples of 2 games he didn't like.

This is not trolling, its expressing an opinion. And even if he was a troll, he would have won because you posted in his thread.

OT: I say try The Witcher. Thats one hell of a game. And I don't know if Mount and Blade Warband was developed in Europe, but if it was I say try that game. There's a demo on Steam. It lets you play to level seven, which is enough time to see if you like the game or not.

 

[mireko]

There are only two WRPG companies that make games that don't make me want to claw my eyes out and jump into a river out of sheer boredom: BioWare and Obsidian, and Obsidian can't make their games work properly.

If you go further back, I'm sure you'll find more companies that have since exploded or switched to making shooters instead, but right now you really only have those two. The rest are just so.. ugh.

A lot of JRPGs are also that "fantasy with steampunk elements"-thing out of Final Fantasy, but the genre as a whole is way more diverse simply because they have more companies making more RPGs. Some of it will have to be original, especially the stuff Atlus and NIS makes, and some of it won't be.

Unless you meant European RPGs as opposed to American RPGs in which case.. yeah. I should've read your post more carefully before writing all that.

The biggest problem with European RPGs is that they apparently think good design means Poser models, completely broken battle systems and quests in style of KILL 500 PIGS AND GATHER 600 PIG HATS.

 

[The Amazing Tea Alligator]

Weren't both S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Mount and Blade Europish?

 

[The Madman]

The biggest problem with European RPGs is that they apparently think good design means Poser models, completely broken battle systems and quests in style of KILL 500 PIGS AND GATHER 600 PIG HATS.

I don't understand your references, I honestly don't. Grinding and 'kill X of Y' type quests are more a hallmark of jrpg and MMO games than anything else. Most solid major European rpg I've played such as Divine Divinity, Ishar, Gothic 1 & 2, The Witcher, Drakensang and the like have happily avoided that tedium! Admittedly the Witcher had a few quests in that vein, but seeing as the protagonists job is as a professional monster slayer and all such quests were entirely optional, I let it slide. Then you've got pseudo rpg like the recent King's Bounty games which are insanely good and, again, have no such game design.

So why, of all things to hate European rpg about, did you choose those? If you've played any, then you'd know there are much more prominent flaws to boast about which wouldn't have people like me going 'huh?'. The voice acting for example is as a rule somewhere between mediocre and just downright terrible. Graphics tend to be sub-par. And the games are generally buggy as hell on release! All legitimate flaws which most fans of western and European rpg such as myself have learned to accept.

*sigh*

On a side note on the topic of 'european rpg', apparently Two Worlds 2 is a hit! Who'd have guessed after the miserable first game? Hasn't hit America yet, but everything I've read indicates that it's a genuinely fantastic rpg. Go figure! Venetica is also supposed to be receiving solid initial impressions. Things are looking good.

 

[mireko]

The biggest problem with European RPGs is that they apparently think good design means Poser models, completely broken battle systems and quests in style of KILL 500 PIGS AND GATHER 600 PIG HATS.

I don't understand your references, I honestly don't. Grinding and 'kill X of Y' type quests are more a hallmark of jrpg and MMO games than anything else.

Yeah, JRPGs suffer from that as well (especially Monster Hunter etc.), but since most JRPGs are more linear there's not always much of an opportunity for it (the x of y, grind is always possible). MMOs are, of course, full of that but that's what MMOs are.


But more specifically, I'm talking about stuff like Risen and Divinity 2. I guess it's possible that I've just had really bad luck with European RPGs.

Graphics tend to be sub-par.

Well, that's what I meant by Poser models. It's not just that the graphics are "bad", but they're boring. Like the objects in the game are all low-poly templates.

As for the voice acting and bugs. Okay, I overlooked that. Sorry.

And yes, King's Bounty is great but I didn't realize it was considered an RPG.

 

[The Madman]

Yeah, JRPGs suffer from that as well (especially Monster Hunter etc.), but since most JRPGs are more linear there's not always much of an opportunity for it (the x of y, grind is always possible). MMOs are, of course, full of that but that's what MMOs are.

But more specifically, I'm talking about stuff like Risen and Divinity 2. I guess it's possible that I've just had really bad luck with European RPGs.

Graphics tend to be sub-par.

Well, that's what I meant by Poser models. It's not just that the graphics are "bad", but they're boring. Like the objects in the game are all low-poly templates.

As for the voice acting and bugs. Okay, I overlooked that. Sorry.

And yes, King's Bounty is great but I didn't realize it was considered an RPG.

Risen and Divinity 2 were disappointments to almost everyone including their fans, you'd be better served going back to where both series originated for a true taste of how good the series can be, much like if I were to judge the whole Final Fantasy series on the latest instalment and hate it, you'd likely tell me to try the others before judging them as a whole. In this case Gothic 1 and 2, and Divine Divinity, which despite having a silly name and terrible voice acting is extremely fun! There's a whole overwrought story about Risen and the Gothic series, but I'd rather not get into that here, but lets just say it and Gothic 4 both shared a troubled development. Meanwhile I haven't played Divinity 2, but it seems to have let down a good number of people. Pity!

Honestly though I think you're stereotyping, doing the exact same thing to games developed in Europe as I might do to games developed in Japan if I were in a particularly snarky mood. Dey all have pointy hair, stupid stories, bad dialogue, and girlish men etc etc. Judge not lest ye be judged and all that preachy stuff!

Not to mention Europe is a massive continent and one of the most culturally diverse in the world...

Hell, the Fable series is from the UK and I don't think it falls into any of your or my own stereotypes. It has its own unique problems, though personally I still rather like if not love the series. In the same vein yes, King's Bounty is classified as a tactical rpg and it breaks all these stereotypes as well by being relentlessly imaginative, polished, bright and colourful!

Thinking about it, the only common thread I can find between every 'role playing game where the developers also happen to be situated in Europe' is that they've all got bloody brilliant music. Go figure!

On another note, just read up on some new info about The Witcher 2, and it's shaping up to be my pick for game of the year when its released. Bioware is in for some serious competition, especially considering all the changes they're making to Dragon Age 2 only seem to be bringing it closer and closer to direct competition with The Witcher 2. Love the source material, loved the original game, and the sequel looks to be an improvement in every way possible. This might be the first time in years Bioware is beaten at their own game.