Why are then no games like MGS?

[BrotherRool]

You can do this pretty easily on Assassins Creed 2 (except for fourish people I think, which are mainly random mooks. One you're meant to reveal yourself and then stab in front of the Big Bad and if you don't press the quicktime event Ezio just stands and looks awkwardly at the Big Bad whilst he stares at you and waits for you to kill the mook and reveal yourself)

The amusing part is that they'll do the death cutscene and then take you back to the world where the person who just gave his dramatic last words is clearly lying on the floor groaning =D


Games that allow this sort of thing always bring favour to me. I'd particularly like to see more of it in Uncharted maybe. My biggest problem with Metal Gear: Revengeance is that from the trailers at the moment, they aren't making it look like that sort of game (although these are Metal Gear trailers we're talking about)

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I'm used to MGS4's controls. The point is saying "it's harder to do X so therefore it's skillful" doesn't fly in my book.

MGS4 was a disappointment. If they relegated a good bit of the plot to the codec, removed drebin and his shop and banned the word nanomachines from being spoken it would have been a far better game.

If you play it without using Drebins shop at all it's nearly a true MGS sequel then.

There's times when "it's harder to do X so therefore it's skillful" are true. Headshots are always more skillful than body shots because the head is a smaller target, headshots require more aiming skill. It's like Uncharted's auto-platforming compared to a real platformer like Mirror's Edge, it's harder to jump in Mirror's Edge than Uncharted and Mirror's Edge does require more skill. When a mechanic gets to the point of being dumbed down is when harder can equate to more skillful. There's a fine line between streamlined and dumbed down, streamlining is fine, it makes a certain thing easier because that said thing was overly hard/more complicated than it should've been. Being able to melee kill someone shooting at you is BS; if someone is running at me with a knife and I have an automatic gun, I'm going to win that fight pretty much every time, the best outcome the knifer can expect is that we both die.

I don't have a problem with the Drebin shop as I don't have issues with games that let you play them in different ways. I don't have an issue that the new Hitman game has better shooting mechanics that makes shooting better and easier (so many fans have blown that way out of proportion), I can still play the game just like the other games in the series. My main gameplay issue was there very little classic Metal Gear stealth gameplay after Chapter 2, what was there was great. I did enjoy the story overall even with the issues. I remember playing through on day 1 thinking I'm going to get a bunch of answers all while MGS4 keep adding to the pile questions instead of answering questions and then at the end, there was just a huge pile of questions. I think that was the main issue with the story. I don't remember a lot of the story being told through codec messages, I remember MGS2 having a lot more story in codec messages than MGS3 or MGS4 to the point where a lot of people still think the S3 plan in MGS2 stood for Solid Snake Simulation because a lot of people skipped that long ass codec message.

 

[Moontouched-Moogle]

"MP?" Did you actually mean Drebin Points? It was a nice addition, and you could even take advantage of it with non-lethal means. Knocked out or held up enemies drop their main weapon, and destroying an AI-machine gives DP without counting as a kill.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the online game, Metal Gear Online whose servers just closed this Tuesday. MGO was the best online shooter this gen by far (I played it weekly for all 4 years until the very last day), it emphasized skill more than any other online shooter. If you want to knife someone, you have to slam them down, switch to 1st-person view, and then knife (compared to COD and pretty much every other shooter where you press the melee button). MGS4 and MGO have the smoothest 3rd-person aiming I've ever experience in a 3rd-person shooter, and there was none of that aim-assist crap going on either.

On topic:
The stealth genre was big for awhile but now it's almost dead. There's a stealth game here and there but that's it. If you are a stealth gamer, everyone needs to play Deus Ex HR (mentioned by a lot of people), the level design is so good and enemy placement done very good as well. Dishonored looks promising and Hitman Absolution will be awesome (it's a unique kind of stealth where you use disguises quite often). I never got into the Splinter Cell series, I played the first game and didn't think it was anything special.

Stealth games really need top-notch level design to work and that's probably why there's been a decrease in stealth games recently. It's a lot easier to make a corridor shooter than a stealth shooter.

Ah, I see, I think. Still not sure what the MP is supposed to be, though. I played a bit of MGO here and there, and all I can think of are the points for weapons you got based on performance, which were still called Drebin Points if I recall correctly. There were also the points for weapon proficiency and the like, but I think it was just referred to as experience. I rather liked MGO, but inconsistent internet connection quality, life getting in the way, and the fact that I bought MGS4 waaaayyyy after it came out kinda hampered that. Still, it will be missed.

 

[Moontouched-Moogle]

"MP?" Did you actually mean Drebin Points? It was a nice addition, and you could even take advantage of it with non-lethal means. Knocked out or held up enemies drop their main weapon, and destroying an AI-machine gives DP without counting as a kill.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the online game, Metal Gear Online whose servers just closed this Tuesday. MGO was the best online shooter this gen by far (I played it weekly for all 4 years until the very last day), it emphasized skill more than any other online shooter. If you want to knife someone, you have to slam them down, switch to 1st-person view, and then knife (compared to COD and pretty much every other shooter where you press the melee button). MGS4 and MGO have the smoothest 3rd-person aiming I've ever experience in a 3rd-person shooter, and there was none of that aim-assist crap going on either.

I dislike this notion. Awkward controls does not mean skill. That's the excuse I hear from console players I know in real life who say xbox shooters are more skillful because the controller is harder to use.

It's a bad excuse and does not fly.

Technically, it's not that awkward of a control scheme, although the method described seems like a purposefully awkward one used in order to guarantee a hit. You could knife in first person or even third person without knocking them down, but the enemy would have a chance to get out of range, especially since the more damaging knife stab (as opposed to just quickly slashing the thing) requires you to hold down the button for about a second before it executes. I think MGO also had the option to slit their throat if you managed to grab them with CQC, but I can't be sure, since it's been a while since I did that.

Plus, since he also brought up COD, didn't one of the recent Call of Duty games have a perk where you could basically leap at a guy from a fair bit of distance and knife them for an instant kill? I recall hearing some grumbling about that. Sneaking up and stabbing quickly before they run off or throw you to the ground certainly sounds more skillful.

You DO have a bit of a point though, especially since console first person shooters with the awkward controls tend to have aim assist and sticky aiming to compensate, which really deflates the skill required to get a hit.

 

[Moontouched-Moogle]

The original Dino Crisis. The only monsters that didn't go down with a good ol' tranq were the bosses. Class game.

Could you pump the bosses full of tons of tranquilizers to eventually defeat them, like in later Metal Gear games? Or were they entirely immune?

 

[Lugbzurg]

Well, I see people have already mentioned Deus Ex and Splinter Cell a whole bunch of times, so... How about Fallout? That series seems to do it, from what I've gathered. I haven't played them, yet, but, I've got a collection of three 2-D titles. I should go play them soon.

Anyways, there's also games that allow you to kill, but, not as an all-the-time thing. If I read the manual correctly (8GB... why do you have to take up so much space, therefore, not allowing me to play?), it seems that Assassins Creed discourages you from killing anyone but your nine specific targets? Did I read that correctly?

Also, there's Conker's Bad Fur Day. Killing your enemies in that game is a treat. Not standard procedure.
...Until the last three chapters, that is.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Because that kind of gameplay belongs in a stealth game? You may have heard of this series that also does that called Splinter Cell.

Also the tranquilizer was called the EZ gun for a reason you know.

Also so i dont sound so smug, Im actually the worst MGS and Splinter Cell player of all time, on one level of Double Agent I recieved an overall percentage of -150%

Actually it was called the EZ gun because it had infinite ammo and suppressor.
On any higher difficulty you had to use it sparingly because the supressor wouldn't last forever and ammo was scarce.

Well as I said, worst player ever. Ive never ventured outside of the Very Easy - Easy difficulty

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

No, doing a headshot takes skill regardless of the game as it needs precision. Making a knife attack in MGS4 is more awkward than it has to be, that's my point. There is a difference between something being difficult to do as it needs precision and being difficult to do because it's awkward.

I felt drebin ruined the game because of situations like this

"Oh no, I'm surrounded by tons of enemies and my ammo is low. Here, let me pause the world and buy 1000 rounds. Now I'm cool, lets continue"

If you play without it for a playthrough it's better as it forces you to scavenge and use the militia weapons.

Knifing in the online game was actually made harder due to community request, as the range of the stun knife was too big and a patch decreased the range. To me, knifing was not awkward, it just required more steps than other games. Again, that was due to making it so you can't run around knifing people shooting at you; Metal Gear Online is an online shooter with high health and having a knife/melee button (like other shooters) would make knifing rather broken. Once you learn and practice knifing, it's not hard or awkward, it's just that the time required is longer so you can't knife as a primary attack. Also, knifing in the single player is pretty easy though, you can use auto-aim to knife an AI enemy rather easily compared to a human opponent (as a player knows that playing dead breaks the auto-aim lock). MGO is all about giving you a chance (no matter how slim) to get out of pretty much anything; if you get slammed, you can roll out of a knife attack if perfectly executed. You have a slim chance at headshotting a shotgunner than knocks you prone. Grenades don't kill with 1 hit (it takes 2 or 3 nades to kill), so you have a chance to get away or kill your enemy while laying on the ground.

I'm not saying using drebin didn't ruin the game, I'm just saying if someone wants to play on god-mode and the game allows for that, I don't have a problem with that. If you play MGS4 stealthily, you don't even really need to scavenge as you can CQC most enemies and not even need any guns. I played through MGS3 on my 1st playthrough CQCing, interrogating, and then knifing every guard in the game because I loved the new CQC mechanic so much. Oh, and Snake can CQC grab and slit an enemies throat just by pressing triangle; in the online game, you could do that but with only a certain skill set (Blades level 3 and CQC level 1).

 

[Terramax]

The original Dino Crisis. The only monsters that didn't go down with a good ol' tranq were the bosses. Class game.

Could you pump the bosses full of tons of tranquilizers to eventually defeat them, like in later Metal Gear games? Or were they entirely immune?

Not sure, never tried, but I don't think so. Besides, when you're up against a T.Rex, your first instinct isn't to use tranquilizer darts...