Aside from the elder scrolls, fallout, dragon age, and a handful of others, there's really nothing out there for RPG fans. Yet for the adrenaline junkie there are SO MANY shooters and mindless action romps!
Why are there so few quality RPGs?
- Thread starter OpticalJunction
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Because making games is so expensive they can't afford to make things with true complexity and depth.
Shooters are relatively easy to make, and there's a large market for them. So games are being made for them.
There's a much, MUCH smaller market for RPG fans, so much less RPG games are being made. And those that are are slowly turning more "action-y" to appeal to the shooter fans and as a result(whether intentional or not) are foregoing the complexity and depth that make the genre so great.
'Tis sad, really.
Also, this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7588-Experienced-Points-Voice-vs-Choice] is another reason. I'd like to highlight one particular part:
Old-School RPG solutions to get knickknack from King Bob:
1) Sneak or scam your way into prison and free Nancy, claim the knickknack.
2) Murder your way into prison and free Nancy, claim the knickknack.
3) Swipe the knickknack outright.
4) Kill King Bob, then take the knickknack.
5) Get Nancy killed (or kill her yourself) and then end up having to obtain the knickknack some other way.
6) Kill Bob, take the knickknack, but later rescue Nancy anyway.
7) Kill Bob, take the knickknack, enter prison, kill Nancy.
8) Free Nancy on your own, then meet Bob for the first time and get the knickknack.
9) Bribe Bob for the knickknack with a huge sum of money.
New-School RPG solutions to get knickknack from Bob:
1) Sneak into prison and free Nancy, claim the knickknack.
2) Murder your way into prison, free Nancy, claim the knickknack.
And one of the new school ways would probably have a good/evil shtick attached to it.
Shooters are relatively easy to make, and there's a large market for them. So games are being made for them.
There's a much, MUCH smaller market for RPG fans, so much less RPG games are being made. And those that are are slowly turning more "action-y" to appeal to the shooter fans and as a result(whether intentional or not) are foregoing the complexity and depth that make the genre so great.
'Tis sad, really.
Also, this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7588-Experienced-Points-Voice-vs-Choice] is another reason. I'd like to highlight one particular part:
Old-School RPG solutions to get knickknack from King Bob:
1) Sneak or scam your way into prison and free Nancy, claim the knickknack.
2) Murder your way into prison and free Nancy, claim the knickknack.
3) Swipe the knickknack outright.
4) Kill King Bob, then take the knickknack.
5) Get Nancy killed (or kill her yourself) and then end up having to obtain the knickknack some other way.
6) Kill Bob, take the knickknack, but later rescue Nancy anyway.
7) Kill Bob, take the knickknack, enter prison, kill Nancy.
8) Free Nancy on your own, then meet Bob for the first time and get the knickknack.
9) Bribe Bob for the knickknack with a huge sum of money.
New-School RPG solutions to get knickknack from Bob:
1) Sneak into prison and free Nancy, claim the knickknack.
2) Murder your way into prison, free Nancy, claim the knickknack.
And one of the new school ways would probably have a good/evil shtick attached to it.
I hear you man. Fortunately, there's always Atlus. 
Also, I hope more indie guys get into oldschool style RPGS like the "cthulu saves the world" guys. I could go for more stuff like that.
BTW, if you have a DS, Radiant Historia is pretty darn good. While it does devolve into cliches once in a while, it's got a good story, likeable cast, and the battle system is pretty interesting. If you're craving a good JRPG, go for it.
Also, I hope more indie guys get into oldschool style RPGS like the "cthulu saves the world" guys. I could go for more stuff like that.
BTW, if you have a DS, Radiant Historia is pretty darn good. While it does devolve into cliches once in a while, it's got a good story, likeable cast, and the battle system is pretty interesting. If you're craving a good JRPG, go for it.
Pretty much this. It would just be so expensive to make an RPG with that kind of freedom with the production values of modern games. Any RPG's like that would have be indie, and frankly, there are very few indie developers who have seemed to taken to this particular niche.Irridium said:
Shooters are easy to crank out. Flimsy storylines and shallow characters are easy to make. Then you just have to design some semi-interesting weapons and things to shoot and stick it on the shelf. (Yes, I know there are exceptions, please don't bother pointing them out.)
RPGs on the other hand are much more complex, particularly in modern times. The RPG market seems to be split between Dungeon Crawlers like Diablo and Torchlight and the complex story focused games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. The second kind requires much more thought, as a Role-Playing Game needs to have a well thought out role for the player to play. Dungeon crawlers also require a lot of length, which makes them expensive. Shooters can get away with being short, most of the time. RPGs can't.
The story thing is why I wish I knew an Artist and a Coder. *Waves fist full of game story ideas*
RPGs on the other hand are much more complex, particularly in modern times. The RPG market seems to be split between Dungeon Crawlers like Diablo and Torchlight and the complex story focused games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect. The second kind requires much more thought, as a Role-Playing Game needs to have a well thought out role for the player to play. Dungeon crawlers also require a lot of length, which makes them expensive. Shooters can get away with being short, most of the time. RPGs can't.
The story thing is why I wish I knew an Artist and a Coder. *Waves fist full of game story ideas*
That's about it really.Irridium said:
I mean, is it really so hard to ask for an RPG with graphics in the vein of something like Baldur's Gate, with maybe some of the technology/UI improvements of today? I get that no major RPG developer like BioWare or Bethesda would do that, but there seems to be at least a decent market for that kind of game.
Simply put, there's a more limited market for games that have deep and thoughtful stories, so companies have started steering away from them.
People don't want to have to think about why they're killing hundreds of thousands of things; they just want the loot and levels. They don't care about the history of some epic item; they only see stats and whether it's better than what they have. GOOD and BAD interaction choices are likewise boiled down to what combo will give them the rewards they want most.
Shooters and mindless hack n slash games take much less time and money to make because there's less story, and with just as many people buying, that means more profit in the end.
People don't want to have to think about why they're killing hundreds of thousands of things; they just want the loot and levels. They don't care about the history of some epic item; they only see stats and whether it's better than what they have. GOOD and BAD interaction choices are likewise boiled down to what combo will give them the rewards they want most.
Shooters and mindless hack n slash games take much less time and money to make because there's less story, and with just as many people buying, that means more profit in the end.
Quality RPG's have hell of alot more content, and that takes hell of alot more time to make, time that publishers do not want to spend on something that wont make Halo/CoD piles of cash.
Bioware still manages to keep EA happy with it's yearly stamp outs, but that just leaves us with poor reminders where RPG's are going.
Bioware still manages to keep EA happy with it's yearly stamp outs, but that just leaves us with poor reminders where RPG's are going.
In a nutshell, all the ideas are gone. They've done basic Western medieval fantasy, western sci-fi fantasy, eastern medieval fantasy, eastern sci-fi fantasy. All of the other scenes that an RPG inhabits. Where do you take it from there? It's widely believed that all the ideas combined to make all these separate genre's have been used. It's not easy for a games company to reuse those ideas and make them better. Because 1, they can't copy ideas. And two, they often turn out to be worse.
And it'd cost pennies to make compared to most game budgets. And lower graphics means more people can run the game. Charge about $30 for it, so more people can buy it, and you got the recipe for a profitable game. God knows it'll sell, since competition for the particular market is pretty, well more or less non-existent.AlternatePFG said:
Just picked it up last week, having lots of fun with it. Now I just wish I had more time in my day for all the games I want to play.aegix drakan said:I hear you man. Fortunately, there's always Atlus.
Also, I hope more indie guys get into oldschool style RPGS like the "cthulu saves the world" guys. I could go for more stuff like that.
BTW, if you have a DS, Radiant Historia is pretty darn good. While it does devolve into cliches once in a while, it's got a good story, likeable cast, and the battle system is pretty interesting. If you're craving a good JRPG, go for it.
I think most of the companies that made the good RPGs in the past
are now trying to cater to a wider audience within their rpgs, and
as a result, instead of getting a good quality rpg, we're getting
an action, hack and slash shootem-up with a couple rpg elements.
I Think that if people started going back and making quality RPGS
maybe they'd have a shot of getting more people into rpgs? idunno.
are now trying to cater to a wider audience within their rpgs, and
as a result, instead of getting a good quality rpg, we're getting
an action, hack and slash shootem-up with a couple rpg elements.
I Think that if people started going back and making quality RPGS
maybe they'd have a shot of getting more people into rpgs? idunno.
Sturgeon's law.
There are very few quality shooters out there. Quite frankly, I prefer my choices for RPGs than Shooters. At least if I see an RPG getting attention I know it'll be something different. Would you really prefer it if they made yearly TES games?
There are very few quality shooters out there. Quite frankly, I prefer my choices for RPGs than Shooters. At least if I see an RPG getting attention I know it'll be something different. Would you really prefer it if they made yearly TES games?
RPGs were always niche.
You probably just didn't notice it since there were so few big-name developers and so few people actually playing games. Shooters have more mainstream appeal, and it has grown exponentially more profitable to target that group now that gaming is so big.
Except there are still tons of fantastic RPGs being developed every year. Maybe you're just not looking, or maybe you're one of those people who categorically refuse to play anything developed in Japan. If that's the case, I can't sympathize.
You probably just didn't notice it since there were so few big-name developers and so few people actually playing games. Shooters have more mainstream appeal, and it has grown exponentially more profitable to target that group now that gaming is so big.
Except there are still tons of fantastic RPGs being developed every year. Maybe you're just not looking, or maybe you're one of those people who categorically refuse to play anything developed in Japan. If that's the case, I can't sympathize.
To be fair, JRPG's are very different than Western ones. The art style and general tone are usually very different. (There are a few exceptions, such as Demon's Souls) I can understand if people can't get over the differences between them. I can't understand when people feel the need to constantly bash on them because they personally don't like them.mireko said:
We're talking about RPGs here, not JRPGs. The JRPG genre is an acquired taste, just like the appreciation of big-eyed cartoon characters being violated by tentacles. I find it distasteful to try and enforce your fetishes on innocent people.mireko said:
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In short: Black Isle is dead. They were the company to prove video games can be a mature medium that combines the best of all media and goes beyond the model of instant gratification but also offers an experience and a overarching message.
Unfortunately thinking just is not contemporary. After all if it was selling books would be more profitable than making movies. If 30% of your target audience will skip all those boring letters and then wander aimlessly not knowing what their quest is then that's a lot less money to buy a Ferrari with, lost sales and all. After all, if they'd want to read shit they'd go read the words on the back of a beer can or something.