Why aren't more realistic and serious animated movies being made?

[Pharsalus]

How about anything by Ralph Bakshi.

 

[DexterNorgam]

Animated movies are only for kids. There has never been, nor will there ever be a cartoon movie that will address anything I'd be interested in as an adult. Animation is not the medium for mature themes. No adult/mature theme will ever be done justice in an animated format.

 

[Taldeer]

I'm sorry, I don't really have the time to read all of the replies on your thread, so maybe this argument has been made before, but if your aim is to prove that animation is a look rather than a genre, then Richard Linklater's (I hope I'm not misspelling his name) work should be instrumental in your argument. A Scanner Darkly is only sci-fi by a very slim margin, like much of Philip K. Dick's work. If the "scramble suits" are the only element of that movie that qualifies it as sci-fi, then genre purism is truly a monstrosity. I can think of nothing else which would place that movie in the sci-fi genre unequivocally. But skipping "A Scanner Darkly", "Waking life" should also work as a good example of animation as a means of expressing serious, adult themes, even though it's not as much a movie as a series of interviews.

But if you really want to restrict your list to such rigid guidelines, I'd also recommend the movie "Noire", which is an animated take on the film noire genre from... I dunno, 2007 or something. There was also a Japanese animated series, but alas, I forget the name... It was brilliant though... about a young doctor who saves the life of a boy after his family had been murdered, only to find out that the child is a sociopath and is the murderer, only to escape from hospital custody. The doctor then proceeds to track the child through Germany (yes, all of this happens in Europe) over many years, growing old, obsessed, consumed, perpetually finding clues, bits of history, trails the boy slowly turned man leaves in his wake, one more disturbing than the other... It's brilliant. I wish I could remember the name... maybe some of you fellow Escapists can help...

 

[g3ko]

What about Animatrix? I haven't seen it personally, but as far as my knowledge goes it's a serious animated movie.

i was just thinking of mentioning it. It's not actually a movie as it is a collection of episodes that detail different side plots to the original story. Also, each episode is drawn in a different style, if you manage to watch it and then with the commentary on, it's really great to see all the different styles

 

[stormcrow5]

Just number 1 throws off like everything, you want a anamated move thats realistic in every way.... I kinda figure the point of them makeing it not live is because then they are not tied to that. But heck with the tech and CG out now it actualy dosent matter if it is animated or not.

 

[Bluntman1138]

Secondly, what do you mean by the word "drama"? Emotion? Then all that's needed is the right drawing style. And if that's not what you mean, then what?
"And i put pride and predjudice in there, because it is boring as shit. Live action movie and book included." You may think so, but that doesn't answer why other people wouldn't see it. With the right artwork, emotions could be conveyed perfectly fine.

So what kind of drawing style could replicate Patrick Stewart or Ian McClennan when it comes to portraying emotion. There are lots of little things an great actor does with their facial expressions. Quivering of lips when scared , the wrinkles in the face showing anger, the blood flushing a persons face with anger. In order to convey these great dramatic performers, would require more than what animation can do. I have yet to see animation that looks close enough to live action to portray that kind of emotion on a believable scale.

Now i am not saying that there are not dramatic moments in animation, but these moments are usually centered around the story, not in the expressions of the characters. CGI is getting close, yes, but it still is not up to snuff.

But my main thing really is the exclusion of Sci-fi and Fantasy, in which i direct you to Asimov's quote. YOU may think that Sci-Fi or Fantasy isnt that important, and shouldnt be represented on you little list. But the fact remains that the most popular of all literature, live action, and animation is based off of fantasy and Sci-fi.

And why only movies, why not TV. Battlestar Galactica would not have worked in animation, because it requires the human element of expression. Again, as i said above, cannot be conveyed through animation. Just as the Venture Brothers would just be plain stupid if it were a live action show. Some things work better as live action, other things work better as animation. It is just the asthetics of the project.

 

[minuialear]

These movies suit my list (please correct me if I'm wrong):
1. Tokyo Godfathers
2. The Prince of Egypt
3. Sword of the Stranger
4. Perfect Blue
5. Grave of the Fireflies
6. The illusionist
7. Persepolis
8. Waltz with Bashir
9. 5 Centimeters Per Second
10. Whisper of the Heart
11. Millenium Actress
12. Mary & Max
13. Golgo 13: The Professional
14. Golgo 13: Queen Bee
15. American Pop

EDIT: Please stop recommending Batman movies. You're only proving my point.

How does The Prince of Egypt fit your criteria, but Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker didn't? It contains some equally heavy themes in it and is arguably more realistic. Same with Batman: Under the Hood. Also Mask of the Phantasm (which has barely anything to do with the Joker and everything to do with Bruce Wayne's psychological problems, the granularity of good vs evil, and other themes).

 

[Queen Michael]

I'm sorry, I don't really have the time to read all of the replies on your thread, so maybe this argument has been made before, but if your aim is to prove that animation is a look rather than a genre, then Richard Linklater's (I hope I'm not misspelling his name) work should be instrumental in your argument. A Scanner Darkly is only sci-fi by a very slim margin, like much of Philip K. Dick's work. If the "scramble suits" are the only element of that movie that qualifies it as sci-fi, then genre purism is truly a monstrosity. I can think of nothing else which would place that movie in the sci-fi genre unequivocally. But skipping "A Scanner Darkly", "Waking life" should also work as a good example of animation as a means of expressing serious, adult themes, even though it's not as much a movie as a series of interviews.

But if you really want to restrict your list to such rigid guidelines, I'd also recommend the movie "Noire", which is an animated take on the film noire genre from... I dunno, 2007 or something. There was also a Japanese animated series, but alas, I forget the name... It was brilliant though... about a young doctor who saves the life of a boy after his family had been murdered, only to find out that the child is a sociopath and is the murderer, only to escape from hospital custody. The doctor then proceeds to track the child through Germany (yes, all of this happens in Europe) over many years, growing old, obsessed, consumed, perpetually finding clues, bits of history, trails the boy slowly turned man leaves in his wake, one more disturbing than the other... It's brilliant. I wish I could remember the name... maybe some of you fellow Escapists can help...

It's Monster. Created by Naoki Urazawa. Excellent series. And I don't think that minor sf elements like in A Scanner Darkly make a movie bad in any way. Sf is a great genre. I'm just saying that I'd like to see more animated films about real people doing realistic things.

What about Animatrix? I haven't seen it personally, but as far as my knowledge goes it's a serious animated movie.

i was just thinking of mentioning it. It's not actually a movie as it is a collection of episodes that detail different side plots to the original story. Also, each episode is drawn in a different style, if you manage to watch it and then with the commentary on, it's really great to see all the different styles

Doesn't fit my rules, but it's a great collection of short films. Some good ones, some very good ones.

 

[Bluntman1138]

Animated movies are only for kids. There has never been, nor will there ever be a cartoon movie that will address anything I'd be interested in as an adult. Animation is not the medium for mature themes. No adult/mature theme will ever be done justice in an animated format.

You must not watch animation then, considering most of the mature/adult themed animation is in TV, not movies. I could list off 10 adult themed animated TV series that would not be suggested for kids to watch.

 

[Taldeer]

Animated movies are only for kids. There has never been, nor will there ever be a cartoon movie that will address anything I'd be interested in as an adult. Animation is not the medium for mature themes. No adult/mature theme will ever be done justice in an animated format.

Oh really?! How is "Persepolis" not aimed at adults rather than children? How would a child ever relate to themes such as the political and religious turmoil of a nation and the confusion of an adolescent girl being subjected to at least two very different thought and cultural paradigms precisely when she needs more substance and less relativism? And trust me, the movie treats these themes at least as seriously as I'm trying to describe them, not through silly veiled fables or parables. Not all animation is Pixar and Disney.

 

[penguindude42]

I can't beleive it's not a troll thread!

/sarcasm

~TOM

 

[Braedan]

the lion king definitely doesn't sound like a kid movie and isn't a comedy.

"a cruel uncle murders a young boy's father in front of him. The boy is exiled from all he knows for years, upon returning home an adult to avenge his father and retake his throne."

sound kiddish?

how about cars?
besides the fact that they are cars and not the people in the cars it goes something like:

"a once prosperous town along role 66 is falling on hard times, with no hope in sight since the decline of the highway. desperate for solution, and to avoid starvation they turn to a stranded racer who is in debt to the community."

neither of those are childish plots, could have the "based on a true story" stamp.

Screw your rules 1 and 2. An adult movie those do not make. When you don't have the limitations of real life people why WOULD you try to do super realistic?
And swearing makes the difference? how?

also, I've heard Akita is pretty intense.

All of the movies you recommend violate rules on my list. There's nothing wrong or childish with that per se, it's just that you should be able to make a film that follows my rules and still is good. If live-action films can do it, why shouldn't animation be able to do it too?

You seem to have missed the part where I said your rules were bullshit.
Dismissing animation for not looking real is like dismissing actors for not looking like cartoons. It's missing the whole point of making animation. Why would you make something look realistic when you could just film actors?

Besides the ridiculousness of dismissing animation that isn't hyper realistic, making one on that level of realism at the quality of say, Pixar would take such a monumentally large amount of time that it would make no money. It would be economically smarter to use people. You can't use video games as an example because for the most part they look like shit.

 

[weker]

hmmm...

Code Geass

Don't think thats the best example, as it has giant mechs.

I have watched Akira and thats why I wouldn't say all animation is for kids.
Akira is thought provoking and have a smooth pacing, which doesn't suit kids.

 

[Queen Michael]

Secondly, what do you mean by the word "drama"? Emotion? Then all that's needed is the right drawing style. And if that's not what you mean, then what?
"And i put pride and predjudice in there, because it is boring as shit. Live action movie and book included." You may think so, but that doesn't answer why other people wouldn't see it. With the right artwork, emotions could be conveyed perfectly fine.

So what kind of drawing style could replicate Patrick Stewart or Ian McClennan when it comes to portraying emotion. There are lots of little things an great actor does with their facial expressions. Quivering of lips when scared , the wrinkles in the face showing anger, the blood flushing a persons face with anger. In order to convey these great dramatic performers, would require more than what animation can do. I have yet to see animation that looks close enough to live action to portray that kind of emotion on a believable scale.

Now i am not saying that there are not dramatic moments in animation, but these moments are usually centered around the story, not in the expressions of the characters. CGI is getting close, yes, but it still is not up to snuff.

But my main thing really is the exclusion of Sci-fi and Fantasy, in which i direct you to Asimov's quote. YOU may think that Sci-Fi or Fantasy isnt that important, and shouldnt be represented on you little list. But the fact remains that the most popular of all literature, live action, and animation is based off of fantasy and Sci-fi.

And why only movies, why not TV. Battlestar Galactica would not have worked in animation, because it requires the human element of expression. Again, as i said above, cannot be conveyed through animation. Just as the Venture Brothers would just be plain stupid if it were a live action show. Some things work better as live action, other things work better as animation. It is just the asthetics of the project.

Look, I never said sf isn't important. You're putting words in my mouth. All I said was that I'd like to see movies about real people doing realistic things once in a while, animated. I never said that fantasy and sf are inferior genres. (Hey, without the fantastical, we'd have no Iliad, no Hamlet, no Divine Comedy, no Watchmen... The list goes on.) And what kind of animation would I recommend for conveying emotions? Well, how about the kind used in Tokyo Godfathers? It doesn't matter that the faces aren't as detailed as real-life faces, because then you can remove the parts that don't help to convey the emotion intended.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

3. Don't sound like a kids' movie when you describe the plot.

I take issue with this one. Have you ever seen The Prince of Egypt? That's the animated version of the Ten Commandments, and that really doesn't sound like a kid's movie when you describe the plot.

agreed.

this is a subjective list, at most.

plus swearing? granted i swear all the damn time, but that doesn't make it an adult themed animation...

still though, OP your category sounds very boring and dull..something anime has yet to show me, so i think i'll stay far away from your adult themed anime's.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Your criteria is awful. So it cannot be mature it it doesn't have a dude shout "FUCK!" in it?
With this criteria, stuff like War of the Worlds are children books, same with Wells other books.
And anything that isn't mundane as hell and has some dude cussing is also for kids. Good job, nearly everything that doesn't try too hard is for kids!

 

[Queen Michael]

the lion king definitely doesn't sound like a kid movie and isn't a comedy.

"a cruel uncle murders a young boy's father in front of him. The boy is exiled from all he knows for years, upon returning home an adult to avenge his father and retake his throne."

sound kiddish?

how about cars?
besides the fact that they are cars and not the people in the cars it goes something like:

"a once prosperous town along role 66 is falling on hard times, with no hope in sight since the decline of the highway. desperate for solution, and to avoid starvation they turn to a stranded racer who is in debt to the community."

neither of those are childish plots, could have the "based on a true story" stamp.

Screw your rules 1 and 2. An adult movie those do not make. When you don't have the limitations of real life people why WOULD you try to do super realistic?
And swearing makes the difference? how?

also, I've heard Akita is pretty intense.

All of the movies you recommend violate rules on my list. There's nothing wrong or childish with that per se, it's just that you should be able to make a film that follows my rules and still is good. If live-action films can do it, why shouldn't animation be able to do it too?

You seem to have missed the part where I said your rules were bullshit.
Dismissing animation for not looking real is like dismissing actors for not looking like cartoons. It's missing the whole point of making animation. Why would you make something look realistic when you could just film actors?

Besides the ridiculousness of dismissing animation that isn't hyper realistic, making one on that level of realism at the quality of say, Pixar would take such a monumentally large amount of time that it would make no money. It would be economically smarter to use people. You can't use video games as an example because for the most part they look like shit.

"Why would you make something look realistic when you could just film actors?" Because animated realistic-looking people have a unique beauty. My original post says so. I'm not dismissing movies that don't fit my rules, I'm not saying that they're bad. They're not. (Well, some of them are, but not because they don't fit my list.) I'm saying that now and then I'd like to see some animated movies that are both serious and realistic.

 

[CarlMin]

To the OP. There are plenty of movies who are animated but still not kid friendly. (I still refuse to say "made for kids". Animated movies aren't made for kids exclusively, so kid friendly is a better term). A great many has already been mentioned in this thread.

Yes toy story 3 had toys saving each other BUT it had a message like most other Pixar movies :l
just read the wikipedia page ( i think its there )

I never said it didn't have a message. What's your point? (I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm genuinely curious.)

I'm saying that it doesn't have a message! Never seen a more overrated piece of cinematic crap. No offense.

Animated movies are only for kids.

Obviously not if you look at Pixar or DreamWorks box office.

There has never been, nor will there ever be a cartoon movie that will address anything I'd be interested in as an adult. Animation is not the medium for mature themes. No adult/mature theme will ever be done justice in an animated format.

Well I can't say what would interest you but there are several animated films for children that deals with "mature themes", whether it be philosophical questions or political issues.

And when you say that animation is not a medium for mature themes, does that include obviously adult-orientated shows like South Park, Family Guy, The Simpsons, etc?

 

[BRex21]

In general I think there are 2 problems here, first you ignored the fact that there ARE movies like the ones you want, but you simply aren't satisfied with
them.
And second the style simply does not lend itself well to action, even the most ultra-realistic CGI and animation techniques have a surreal quality to it. Its hard to take it seriously when your characters are all obviously fake and it lends itself better to a lighthearted mentality.
Its not that it can't be done, just that its a niche market.