Why aren't more realistic and serious animated movies being made?

[Robert Ewing]

Animated films are for all ages, just as actual films are for all ages. Just because children are known for liking animation over real like actors, because it's more colorful.

 

[T3chn0s1s]

I'll take the label of lazy from not reading all the of thread, but it seems to me you're looking to pick up a few 'slice of life' flicks - I'd recommend going for a series instead of a film there as they tend to require more time to do anything because of the realism. Why not check out Bunny Drop as a series suggestion? There's plenty of good anime out there that fits your criteria, it's just that it takes a lot longer to digest because they tend to deal with more realistic themes.

It's worth noting as it must have already been that realistic films are few and far between even with actors... Movie magic is price of admission these days.

 

[Queen Michael]

Your criteria is awful. So it cannot be mature it it doesn't have a dude shout "FUCK!" in it?
With this criteria, stuff like War of the Worlds are children books, same with Wells other books.
And anything that isn't mundane as hell and has some dude cussing is also for kids. Good job, nearly everything that doesn't try too hard is for kids!

It doesn't seem like you read the original post at all. Why not?
I said "swearing WHERE APPROPRIATE." It's perfectly fine to skip the swearing, but if a tough, violent biker dude gets extremely angry, and he shouts "GOSH DARN IT TO HECK!!!" I won't be able to take it seriously. And I said that the rules aren't for determining whether the movie is for kids or not, meaning that it can violate my rules and still be mature. Thoguh maybe I could have phrased it a bit better.

 

[Queen Michael]

To the OP. There are plenty of movies who are animated but still not kid friendly. (I still refuse to say "made for kids". Animated movies aren't made for kids exclusively, so kid friendly is a better term). A great many has already been mentioned in this thread.

There has never been, nor will there ever be a cartoon movie that will address anything I'd be interested in as an adult. Animation is not the medium for mature themes. No adult/mature theme will ever be done justice in an animated format.

Well I can't say what would interest you but there are several animated films for children that deals with "mature themes", whether it be philosophical questions or political issues.

And when you say that animation is not a medium for mature themes, does that include obviously adult-orientated shows like South Park, Family Guy, The Simpsons, etc?

I appreciate the way you defend the medium of animation. With that said, Family Guy is really not the best example of animation being mature.

Oh, and I never said there aren't movies who are animated but still not kid friendly.

 

[Sutter Cane]

This list is unfair, as Rule 4 discounts all science fiction and fantasy. Are science fiction and fantasy not "mature"? Can Science fiction not be thoughtful? Also the reason animated films do wilder things is that animation allows you to do so. If you're going to make a film that could just as easily be made in live action,you might as well make it in live action. Also I disagree with point 1 as then films like Persepolis would not be allowed on your list for simply being stylized.

 

[Queen Michael]

This list is unfair, as Rule 4 discounts all science fiction and fantasy. Are science fiction and fantasy not "mature"? Can Science fiction not be thoughtful? Also the reason animated films do wilder things is that animation allows you to do so. If you're going to make a film that could just as easily be made in live action,you might as well make it in live action. Also I disagree with point 1 as then films like Persepolis would not be allowed on your list for simply being stylized.

"These rules are useless at determining if a movie is good or not, or for kids or not, or mature or not." That was part of my original post. You really should have read it. As was the fact that animated realism has a unique beauty, which is my answer to your comment "If you're going to make a film that could just as easily be made in live action,you might as well make it in live action."

 

[MPerce]

Dunno if this has been mentioned yet, but:

Only Yesterday. Same director as Grave of the Fireflies and just as incredible.

 

[The Human Torch]

If they remake all the classic fairy tales into adult movies, they have plenty to work with. The original stories of Red Riding Hood, Snow White, Aladdin, the Little Mermaid and others are fucking brutal. They are nowhere near as child friendly as they appear in modern day books and movies.

 

[agentorange98]

Secret of NIM
Up
Toy Story 3
An American Tale, actually look at most early Don Blueth stuff and it's very adult with actual death involved as his philosiphy was that kids could take anything if there was a happy ending
I'm also gonna say Iron Giant as though yeah it's a little kiddy but over all it's incredibly well written and leagues above other non-disney western animated movies. And yeah Mask of the Phantasm, can't promote that enough I say, and Justice League: New Frontier. I would say to your point that animated movie sort of encapsulates the definition of genre by visual style, it's like look at the "fantasy" genre it has so many sub categories and break downs it's more of a style then an actual genre in and of itself and I feel that's the thing about animation and part of what makes it so great too is what can be done using animation that just can't be accomplished with any other media art form, like go back and watch these 2 Batman animated series episodes "Two-Face Part 1" and "Dreams in Darkness" these 2 have some of the best uses of animation you'll ever see especially within the dream sequences an area where live action films as good as they could seldom match this, the closest I've ever seen live action films make a dream sequence anywhere near as good as the one in "Dreams in Darkness" would either be "Inception" or "Spellbound"

 

[Leodiensian]

1. Are completely realistic in plot and look, that is, people have reasonably realistic proportions (animated realistic-looking people have a beauty all its own), and it doesn't contain supernatural or sci-fi concepts. No alternate timelines either, since that's a sci-fi genre. Of course, neither sf or fantasy are inherently childish. But live-action directors can create masterpieces without fantasy elements or sf elements. I'm just asking animation to do the same.

Animation is like CGI in that it is primarily used to tell stories that aren't really possible using just people and costumes - which is why science fiction and fantasy stories are so popular in it. And those stories are animated out of necessity, rather than animation being a first choice - as a film making method, animation is slow, expensive and problematic even today.

Some speculative fiction stories dont necessarily need animation - Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, for instance, could just be a lady with seven dwarves - but what about the Little Mermaid, or Pinocchio? At best you'd have to resort to CGI which, I'll remind you, is just a kind of animation.

Also, "realistic-looking people" - why would you watch a cartoon over a live-action production if you wanted to see photorealism? So much of the entertainment and artistic value in animation can be found in the character design that what you're proposing is borderline censorship.

 

[The Last Nomad]

Both of them contain sci-fi elements. Not that realistic, really.

How does realism have ANYTHING to do with whether a film is intended for an adult or children audience?

The few films that are animated that are certainly not for kids that I can think of right this minute are all unrealistic to some degree. Either by including sci-fi elements (Which aren't always totally unrealistic, just futuristic, Like A Scanner Darkly, which is certainly not for children) or by having some sort of supernatural being like a ghost or vampire or some weird hellbeasts. If these movies didn't include that little bit of unrealistic material then they could have just been made without any animation.
How about non-animated films with nonrealistic elements. Are they for kids? Total Recall? I think not.

Your arguement is extremely invalid.

 

[Queen Michael]

There are simply too many to put down.

I honestly wouldn't know where to even start with a task like that.

And being fanciful/whimsical/unrealistic =/= childish. It's just fiction. Most live action films aimed at adults don't fit that criteria.

Both of them contain sci-fi elements. Not that realistic, really.

How does realism have ANYTHING to do with whether a film is intended for an adult or children audience?

The few films that are animated that are certainly not for kids that I can think of right this minute are all unrealistic to some degree. Either by including sci-fi elements (Which aren't always totally unrealistic, just futuristic, Like A Scanner Darkly, which is certainly not for children) or by having some sort of supernatural being like a ghost or vampire or some weird hellbeasts. If these movies didn't include that little bit of unrealistic material then they could have just been made without any animation.
How about non-animated films with nonrealistic elements. Are they for kids? Total Recall? I think not.

Your arguement is extremely invalid.

I never said that movies that don't fit my criteria aren't mature/for adults. Why didn't you read my original post? "Your arguement is extremely invalid." No, because I never made that argument.

 

[orangeban]

I watched Titan AE a while back.
I don't know if that fits your category but I certainly think that was only for kids.
The action was sloppily animated, the story predictable, the dialogue shallow and... well, it was something that only a kid would find new and exciting.
Me, I've seen all of that before, and done better.

Out of the examples you gave, I have only watched Finding Nemo.
It wasn't bad, but I can assure you if I hadn't been watching it with my kid brother and sister I would have turned it off 20 minutes in.
Again, it wasn't bad, but it didn't have anything that really... gripped me.

Now, How To Tame Your Dragon, that I did enjoy thoroughly.
I don't know why, I just... liked it. Even though it's basicly the same story as a hundred other kid's movies, I liked it.
I don't know about more enjoyable for adults though.
Sure, I enjoyed it, but my older, critical mind can't help but see plotholes and such.

How To Tame Your Dragon is an interesting one for me. On the one hand it totally butchered the books, to the point of it being irrecognizable, and it had the most blatant and obvious token love interest.

But it was a nice movie I'll say that for it.

 

[GiglameshSoulEater]

What about the japanese animated manga porn?

That is most likely not for kids, to say the least.

 

[Navvan]

Maybe 'cause they aren't. There are tons of kids' movies that are more enjoyable for adults. Movies like Toy Story 2, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, Spirited Away, Finding Nemo, and so on. But the thing is, these movies are about a toy getting kidnapped and needing help form his toy friends, Batman fighting the Joker, a girl who goes to a magic bath house and meets an evil witch, a kid fish who gets lost and needs to be saved by his daddy fish, and they're all about kids' film ideas that they made an adult story out of. It doesn't seem like there are any animated films that take an adult movie idea and make a movie out of it. I never found any animated films that:

1. Are completely realistic in plot and look, that is, people have reasonably realistic proportions (animated realistic-looking people have a beauty all its own), and it doesn't contain supernatural or sci-fi concepts. No alternate timelines either, since that's a sci-fi genre. Of course, neither sf or fantasy are inherently childish. But live-action directors can create masterpieces without fantasy elements or sf elements. I'm just asking animation to do the same.

2. Include swearing where appropriate, (edit: this one isn't completely necessary. I realized that people never swear in old movies)

3. Don't sound like a kids' movie when you describe the plot. (So no talking animals, people!)

4. Aren't comedies. (Because if not all live-action movies are comedies, not all animated ones should have to be.)

Edit: 5. It has to be theoretically possible for the movie to have been based on a true story. Or in other words, it doesn't have to have been based on a true story, but it has to be the kind of film that's so realistic that it could be passed off as based on real events.

Why aren't there any animated psychological dramas?

PLEASE NOTE: These rules are useless at determining if a movie is good or not, or for kids or not, or mature or not. But if a movie breaks them, it's a sign that it's the kind of film that's almost always made live-action, even though it'd be just as good, if not better, with beautiful animation.

I watched Three Colors: Red a while back. Not a bad movie. I also watched Match Point a while back. Not bad. Why aren't there any animated movies like them? (And don't answer "CUZ MATCH POINT SUX!!! I'm talking about the genre and style, not the particular movie.)

Most animated films violate rules on my list. Well, the rules aren't for judging whether the movie is for kids or not, or whether it's good or not, though I guess it might seem that way. It's for judging whether the movie resembles movies like Three Colors: Red and Match Point. You know, the kind of movies that it seems are only made live-action. There's nothing wrong or childish with violating the rules per se, it's just that you should be able to make a film that follows my rules and still is good. If live-action films can do it, why shouldn't animation be able to do it too? Why can't fans of animations go see films like Three Colors: Red and Match Point in theaters that often?

Why do I want movies that fit my list? Because I want to prove that animated movies are a look, not a genre.


These movies suit my list (please correct me if I'm wrong):
1. Tokyo Godfathers
2. Sword of the Stranger
3. Perfect Blue
4. Grave of the Fireflies
5. The illusionist
6. Persepolis
7. Waltz with Bashir
8. 5 Centimeters Per Second
9. Whisper of the Heart
10. Millenium Actress
11. Mary & Max
12. Golgo 13: The Professional
13. Golgo 13: Queen Bee

EDIT: Please stop recommending Batman movies. You're only proving my point.
EDIT: Also, stop recommending me movies that you know don't fit the list.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Some people are saying that the good thing about animation is that unrealistic concpts can be made much easier than in live-action movies, where it takes more money and effort to create sf-visuals, people with unrealistic proportions, and so on. But that implies that if there was a way to do all that stuff in live-action movies for free and completely effortlessly, animated movies would be pointless and they should stop making them. I think we can agree that this isn't true. After all, then we'd lose the unique beauty of animation. Surely nobody who's seen Tokyo Godfathers thinks it'd be better with sf or fantasy concepts, or without the beautiful realistic look it has?

An animated psychological drama in movie form for adults?

Paprika.

I see your list doesn't contain Akira. The movie known for demonstrating to the west that not all animated films are for children in the 80's. You should fix that. I don't care if you don't like to use sci-fi examples. Its known as one of the greatest animated films not aimed at children.

I'd also recommend Summer Wars. Its a little goofy at times and is kid friendly, but I would say its aimed at the 14+ demographic.

Also I completely ignored the first rule for one reason. The majority of live action movies wouldn't fit the criteria either. Hell some of the movies on your list don't. Its arbitrarily restricting. Where does one draw the line where it becomes a fantasy or sci-fi movie? All movies with the exceptions of documentaries have some level of bending realism.

 

[mad825]

While we are at it, let's say; paccaso's art are for retarded people, Van Goth's art are for children and people who love dogs while Monet's art are for more mature, normal adults.

Live action filmshooting and animation are simply a style in which the medium is presented. The different types allow different features, flexibility and emphasis which can be implemented in the visual and story presentation while above all the costs vary from Live action filmshooting being the most expensive.

Calling animated movies "only for kids" just shows how pretentious you really are.

 

[Catie Caraco]

the lion king definitely doesn't sound like a kid movie and isn't a comedy.

"a cruel uncle murders a young boy's father in front of him. The boy is exiled from all he knows for years, upon returning home an adult to avenge his father and retake his throne."

sound kiddish?

The Lion King does not have a kiddish plot at all, no matter how you try to describe it. It's basically a rehashing of Hamlet except the good guys win in the end. Simba = Hamlet, Nala = Ophelia, Scar = Claudius, Simba's Mom = um.. Hamlet's mom. Can't think of her name and can't be assed to look it up. Timon and Pumba = the comic grave diggers.

As for the OT - I think this whole thing is ridiculous. People don't watch movies to see things that could easily happen, they watch movies for an escape. Psychological dramas can be played out in a Sci-Fi/Fantasy setting just as well as in a "realistic" one. Instead of trying to pigeon hole things into specific categories, why not just enjoy the medium as it is?

 

[Queen Michael]

1. Are completely realistic in plot and look, that is, people have reasonably realistic proportions (animated realistic-looking people have a beauty all its own), and it doesn't contain supernatural or sci-fi concepts. No alternate timelines either, since that's a sci-fi genre. Of course, neither sf or fantasy are inherently childish. But live-action directors can create masterpieces without fantasy elements or sf elements. I'm just asking animation to do the same.

Your list is inherently flawed, because of the above.
What's the point of a movie with realistic proportions and elements being animated? Why not simply DO it in live action. Animation is a medium that allows things that live action cannot so limiting yourself to things that can be done in live action is kind of stupid in my opinion.

And honestly I don't really know what the over arching point of your post is. You seem to be all over the place.

But if you want some good animated movies just watch them. Who cares if they're cartoony, sci-fi or have unrealistic elements. It's animation. That's what its for.

For example under your list the Illusionist fits the bill but not Triplette's of Belleville? They're both great movies, why forsake one just because the people in it are exagerrated in certain proportions. That's dumb and you're needlessly limiting yourself by doing so.

Needlessly limiting myself? No, I'm not. I'll gladly watch that kind of movie, it's not like it's bad or anything. Which is why I never said I don't like them in my original post. "What's the point of a movie with realistic proportions and elements being animated?" then we'd lose the unique beauty of animation. That's my answer, an it's a quote from my original post. You really ought to have read it.