Why Bullying is something we can never, ever change:

[Dawns Gate]

Well, see here's the thing. It would appear to me that you guys are either overestimating the effectiveness of your options or they're a bit too simple. Let's discuss them, shall we?

It's difficult to do any sort of estimation when that's all that did work in my situations, but it's true. Everyone is different.

First off: Physical resolution. Beating up a bully is all fine and dandy when it's just one. But you'll find that a lot of kids are ending up bullied by more than one person. And that makes it more complicated. I mean, what are you gonna do? Fight them all? Surely not all at once because dude, numbers and all that. I suppose you could try and fight one on one even if you have more than a single bully. Maybe they won't all try to jump you or anything.

And that's even considering this person can fight or not. Even if they're comfortable enough to do so, it could just end up getting their ass beat for defending themselves. And not every bully is that noble type who thinks that because you stood up to them, you'll be best buddies now. And then things could get worse.

I didn't know any noble types, it was just the fact that they lost was enough shame for them to move on to someone else, then we'd help them win and so on, eventually they couldn't keep up and ran out of targets.

Lastly: Telling someone about it. That doesn't always work either. More often than not, a bully will back off temporarily just long enough to get attention off their back and then start up again. Not to mention that often bullying happens during times when there's no adult to see it or be readily available to tell. After school, in the halls when people pass by, during lunch.

Plus, once again, telling might make it worse.

I know all about when it happens. A friend of mine got stabbed at a party when he tried to not let the bullies from school into the house.
You just have to show you're a better person than them. When my friend got back from the hospital, he told the bullies that even a blade could harm him. You need them to know who is really in control, them or you.

Can you really be all that surprised how someone can feel helpless? Hopeless? That no one can help them? I'm willing to bet those that were pushed to suicide were driven there because they tried all those options you suggest here and none of them panned out. Not a one.

I can be surprised actually. From what I've seen the majority of the people offing themselves are just over reacting because of facebook comments and shit like that. I understand there are those who are being physically bullied in person but these kids only have to deal with it for a couple years at the most. There are people in much worse situations that aren't jumping off bridges. If you really want to get any from the bully then get yourself expelled, just quit showing up and be forced to move schools if your parents don't believe you.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Totally disagree with you on the why. I've known a lot people who were legitimately just assholes. Hell, I've sometimes been that guy to a couple people.

I knew what I was doing and did it anyway, same with every example of bullying I've ever seen. The only time I've seen someone change their ways was when they realised they would be seriously physically harmed otherwise.

I remember this one guy and his group in highschool used to follow me and a friend around and attempt to bully us. One day when he decided to do it by himself we slammed him up against a locker, held him by the throat and told him to leave us alone. Never spoke to us again.

 

[Stryc9]

It'll never completely go away because some parents out there either encourage their kids to be these "alpha male" dicks or just don't care if their kids act like dicks. The schools prop the bullshit up with excuses like "It's all in good fun." and "It builds character." or "Stop being such a pussy." or "Well we don't have any evidence that supports your child's accusations." or other lame excuses, but as soon as the kid that's being bullied fights back they throw the book at him for smashing the star quarterback's head into the wall a couple of times, that'll earn you a two week vacation suspension and depending on your district assault charges.

 

[Dimitriov]

Do you have some kind of evidence to substantiate that claim? Because if not, then it's a faulty premise.

Well, considering you apparently can't scare people into not doing things that ARE obvious... like murder for example...

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

Just Saiyan.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Do you have some kind of evidence to substantiate that claim? Because if not, then it's a faulty premise.

Well, considering you apparently can't scare people into not doing things that ARE obvious... like murder for example...

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

Just Saiyan.

I don't see the correlation. The death penalty is rarely given out even in states that have it, and it's even rarer for someone to actually get executed.

Also, prison (And the death penalty) isn't meant to scare people straight. (The programs where they take troubled kids through prisons are, but those aren't a mainstay) The prison system operates on the basis of 'These people are so troubled that they can't be a part of society' and so they're taken out. Life is 'They're so screwed that they'll never be fit to re-enter society' and the death penalty is 'They're so incorrigible that we don't even want them in the system'.

I'd argue that it would be more accurate to say that the places have the death penalty because of the higher murder rates, not that the death penalty causes higher murder rates.

 

[Dimitriov]

Do you have some kind of evidence to substantiate that claim? Because if not, then it's a faulty premise.

Well, considering you apparently can't scare people into not doing things that ARE obvious... like murder for example...

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

Just Saiyan.

I don't see the correlation. The death penalty is rarely given out even in states that have it, and it's even rarer for someone to actually get executed.

Also, prison (And the death penalty) isn't meant to scare people straight. (The programs where they take troubled kids through prisons are, but those aren't a mainstay) The prison system operates on the basis of 'These people are so troubled that they can't be a part of society' and so they're taken out. Life is 'They're so screwed that they'll never be fit to re-enter society' and the death penalty is 'They're so incorrigible that we don't even want them in the system'.

I'd argue that it would be more accurate to say that the places have the death penalty because of the higher murder rates, not that the death penalty causes higher murder rates.

There are also many studies that indicate the rate of violent crime declines without capital punishment.

http://canadaonline.about.com/od/crime/a/abolitioncappun.htm

And it IS relevant: making people more desperate rarely improves their behaviour. We all know smoking is unhealthy, but people are still starting smoking. Why? Because humans seem to rarely consider the consequences of their actions until after the fact. Or they simply believe it won't happen to THEM.

However, as I said, making people more desperate isn't helpful. Maybe, without thinking about the ramifications, a kid bullies another kid... then he considers too late that he could get into trouble (or stoned! seriously?) so maybe he panics and decides he should just kill his victim to hide his crime? Another brilliant choice, yeah, but shit like this happens.

 

[Ron Alphafight]

I can see a difference between persistent bullying and someone making an off-hand comment to someone that offends them. I think that's where the line gets blurry when talking about bullying. Some people consider that off-hand comment bullying while I would consider it someone just being a douche. It'd be hard to legislate.

By all means, try. Punish them, educate them on what they are doing to others; it'd probably help. But I think educating kids on how to deal with the emotional impact of bullying would help more.

 

[Arrogancy]

It seems to me that most people posting don't realize what exactly this post was talking about, so I'll try to explain a bit. When most people hear the term "bullying" they have an immediate image of little Billy getting cornered and beaten up by three guys twice his size, or they imagine the various teens who have committed suicide because bullies were cruel assholes.

These cases exist, I'm not denying, but this is a small percentage of bullying, bullies who do what they do to be bullies, and this is, mistakenly, what everyone believes all bullying to be. The vast majority of bullying would take the form of what I'd call passive bullying, this is just building up an atmosphere of animosity and exclusion directed toward one person or a small group. In this case, it is quite easy to be a bully and not realize you're doing it because you are not actually doing anything, you are contributing to a collective non-action.

Let me provide an example, Jane is in chemistry class, everyone has to pick a partner for a project, no one picks Jane. This is a form of passive bullying. It is pervasive and lacks any ability to regulate or stop because you cannot regulate a non-action.

 

[DugMachine]

I've noticed a correlation with bully's and the way they're raised. Too many times these kids are either beaten like mad and raised to think it's okay behavior or they're not disciplined enough and think it's alright to act like a shithead to everyone else.

As soon as parents learn how to raise their kids maybe then we can start seeing a decline in the number of school bullys.

Real life monsters are a different story though.

 

[Soxafloppin]

I agree with OP, which was a good read.

I think every ones both been bullied and in fact bullied before, I know I did. Theres one kid in particular who I never see any more, if I did I'd honestly like to say sorry to him.

 

[elvor0]

You realize minimizing these things are entirely possible, right? That people can be raised to learn morality through empathy and reason?

My suggestion, public stoning for all those caught bullying. I'm totally serious. Scaring people into not doing this shit sounds effective at this point.

Did you guys read what I wrote? Yes, people can be taught 'morality and empathy and reason" but the problem is that they don't know they are being bullies when it's happening. That is the issue. Teach someone something all you want, but if they are not aware there is a problem to apply those lessons to, they will not have a reason to apply them.

Don't be obtuse. If you're name calling, beating someone up, stealing their stuff, breaking their stuff or whatever else is generally considered bullying, you're obviously doing harm to someone, either physically or mental. Nobodies that thick. You do any of the aforementioned stuff for a laugh and with obvious malice you're a dick, plain and simple. Unless you've got Sheldon levels of social unawareness, or a very small child you're going to know you're being a dick.

Sounds to me an awful case of making excuses or an attempt to justify their actions. Bullies do it because it amuses them, not because "aww, Biff didn't realise he was being mean, weave him awone and stop saying he's a bully. You'll hurt his feelings." Fuck off if that's the issue, if my kid gets continuously bullied and I'll tell him to do the same thing my mother told me, pick up anything nearby you can use as a weapon and crack heads. "Be a dick and you'll get a smack in the teeth from someone" is a value lesson, and can be easily realised, plus they'll have a reason to apply it.

Also, your point in the OP about making a comment that offended someone. That's not bullying, unless you keep doing it for a start and second, making an off hand comment that offends someone is an accident, and my opinion on a specific manner would depend on what was said and whomever was offended and for what reasons.

It's not a case of more often than not. Passively ignoring someone or not really being "friends" with certain people is just life, it's not done with malice or with any bad intentions, it's just something that happens, mainly because you don't notice you're doing it. Bullying needs that intentional reasoning behind it, other wise its just ignorance. Otherwise you could say that fancying someone and its like they don't even realise you're there could be classed as bullying.

The case of the girl in the video is horrendous, and the people being cruel KNEW they were being cruel, hence why they did it, and because they thought it was funny, therefore, cunts of the highest order. Obviously I don't expect them to have wanted her to have killed herself, nor foresaw the consequences of their actions as suicide from bullying is relatively uncommon, but they're still cunts.

 

[Palademon]

I'd say it won't stop because to properly stop it involves destroying free will. The only thing that can be done is trying to sotp nay bullying you see.

 

[GTwander]

It's impossible to bully someone that refuses to *be* bullied.

You never saw kids that would fight back getting picked on, nor anyone that really stands up for themselves. The main issue here is that the internet allows a platform to fuck with people, while having zero ways to give any legitimate payback.

From what I read in that article, she was harassed by some online jagoff who threatened her to send nude photos to him, which he then sent around to people she knows (obviously some guy from school, or something). What didn't come to her mind was "wait a minute, I'm 15, and this guy could have serious jailtime coming his way if I report him to the feds". So instead of handing it off to people that could track him down, she played into it. She simply wasn't thinking straight, and is key to why she felt to end her life after posting a video to youtube.

At a young age, people are more willing to make a statement than self-preserve. It's why they never seem to think that life doesn't end after high school, and would rather go out with a "bang" in order to shake what they always wanted to say into people. This is why school shootings and the like happen - kids have no concept of the immediate future, only the *now* - and it's key as to why bullying happens in the first place as well. Lack of the concept of future consequences.

~I for one never got bullied past a point in middle school, where I would serve it up something good to anyone that tried. It usually came down to 1-2 people (a year) who I just fucking hated, and they would either fuck with me to a point where I would explode, or we would tradeoff some serious beatdowns. Perhaps just a male thing, though. Females seem to take part in it, as well as react to it, very differently.

 

[MorganL4]

It's simple.... Bullying exists ( in most cases) because the bully is insecure with who they are, and to deflect that insecurity they find someone who is in a weaker state ( physically or socially) they can take their frustrations out on; in an attempt to make themselves seem more powerful and thus reduce the insecure feelings.

Because of this, until we get rid of insecure human beings ( which won't happen) we won't get rid of bullying.

 

[Palademon]

Can you really be all that surprised how someone can feel helpless? Hopeless? That no one can help them? I'm willing to bet those that were pushed to suicide were driven there because they tried all those options you suggest here and none of them panned out. Not a one.

Not to mention I heard the girl who recently commited suicide had tried to before and were then mocked for "not even getting that right".

I find it understandable that there is seemingly no way out. My parents were powerless since teachers reactions to complaiunts of "people following me and bullying me" were "just stay away from them".

Some people can't fight, and even if they win, end up being punished for trying to resolve their problems.

I'm just gunna enter this discussion saying I'm on your side, however adding to my point that bullying will never be stopped.

 

[Lieju]

Maybe if we passed laws against it and posted signs at school entrances reading "Bully Free Zone - No Bullying Allowed"...

Guy's, think I've solved it!

I do believe we've found a solution! Brilliant!

In all seriousness, bullying will never go away because there will always be people who allow themselves to be easy targets. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but bullies can sense a victim by the way he/she carries themselves, and sometimes people are just asking for a douche to come over and harass them. I know people should be allowed to be themselves no matter what other people think, but sadly this is the truth.

That's what happened to me in school.
I have Asperger's and OCD, so it was probably inevitable I didn't fit in, and I generally just wanted to be left alone. But it all became a cycle that fed itself;

I didn't understand social interaction, so I got bullied, which led to me becoming increasingly distrustful of people and more uncertain in dealing with them, which led to depression and more bullying.

But I feel the school could have done more than acted like I was the problem and telling me to 'try to be more normal'.
Not to mention the situation back in Kindergarten where I was bullied by one of the teachers...
There are things the schools can do, like not trying to protect teachers that are horrible in their job, or not trying to pretend the problems don't exist.

It's impossible to bully someone that refuses to *be* bullied.

You never saw kids that would fight back getting picked on, nor anyone that really stands up for themselves.

Really? The 'let's blame the victim' mentality?
Sometimes, no matter how much you stand up for yourself, you still end up losing.
I know that only made my situation worse and turned the bullying more sneaky (stealing and destroying my things, leaving messages that couldn't be traced, covering for each other so it was my word against theirs...).

Also, I tried to hit a guy who sexually harassed me in junior high, and not only did I feel really bad for resulting to violence, people thought it was funny and that it was a sign I liked him.

Even looking back, I don't know what I could have done.

But blaming the victim only reinforces their role as a victim.
After all, if it's their fault, even if their situation changes, they will have the presumption they will be victims again, and act more in a way that invites bullying.