Why Creationism Supports Evolution.

[NDWolfwood5268]

Ok, now, I dont' want to start a huge religion war, I just came up with this case with my coworker last week and it seems sound. I post it to get feedback on where the flaws in my argument may or may not be; a thought out discussion, if you will. First, what is evolution?

Wikipedia: "In biology, evolution is change in the genetic material of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. Though the changes produced in any one generation are small, differences accumulate with each generation and can, over time, cause substantial changes in the organisms."

My argument? There are black people, and there are white people (among other ethnicities) and that is a pretty 'substantial change' in the human species.

Now, classic evolution says that this is normal. Adam and Eve or other creationist theories state that, inherently, we would all be one race one color. Why is that not so then? Well, if we were just created, evolution has obviously darkened the skin of equatorial people, while lightening the skin of norther people, and narrowing the eyes of Asians, each with an advantage to the environment they migrated to.

Now, this idea shoots down another sect of creationism: the young earth creationist. If the earth is only a few thousand years old, how FAST do people evolve these traits? Shouldn't we see people morphing in civilized society to reduce minorities by assimilating into the 'norm' of that region based on the evolutionary advantages for that region? This means we should, right now, be able to SEE Americans that live in China getting Chinese features since it, in theory, helps you live there.

I'm sure there are flaws here, but I currently can't make any out from it. So, let the destruction being I guess!

~cheers~

 

[Macgyvercas]

Another thing to note in the how fast bit is that if the entire history of planet Earth were condensed into 24 hours, humans would have appeared 30 seconds before midnight

 

[ILPPendant]

The idea that race even exists as a biological concept is pretty controversial. I think your argument falls flat on that point.

Another thing to note in the how fast bit is that if the entire history of planet Earth were condensed into 24 hours, humans would have appeared 30 seconds before midnight

What's that got to do with anything?

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

Ok, now, I dont' want to start a huge religion war

Then don't start a religion thread. Pretty simple really.

I'm no gonna get involved this time.

 

[bue519]

My argument? There are black people, and there are white people (among other ethnicities) and that is a pretty 'substantial change' in the human species.

You know the same argument was used to justify slavery and it is still as ignorant as ever. Just because someone has different colored skin doesn't mean that that they are a substantial change.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

My argument? There are black people, and there are white people (among other ethnicities) and that is a pretty 'substantial change' in the human species.

You know the same argument was used to justify slavery and it is still as ignorant as ever. Just because someone has different colored skin doesn't mean that that they are a substantial change.

There was a TV series last month about the first humans and they made a CG Picture of what they'd typically look like and it seemed to be a mix of all races, was pretty cool.

 

[Skreeee]

My argument? There are black people, and there are white people (among other ethnicities) and that is a pretty 'substantial change' in the human species.

Except that race as defined by the color of skin is said not to exist according to biological anthropology...

 

[Skeleon]

Well, yeah, it kind of destroys the argument of the Young Earth because evolutionary changes take more time but most Creationists don't even believe in the Young Earth anymore.
The more basic problems that arise between Creationists and Evolutionists aren't really about the Young Earth.

 

[dontworryaboutit]

God is a Darwinist.

 

[NDWolfwood5268]

The idea that race even exists as a biological concept is pretty controversial. I think your argument falls flat on that point.

Another thing to note in the how fast bit is that if the entire history of planet Earth were condensed into 24 hours, humans would have appeared 30 seconds before midnight

What's that got to do with anything?

What do you mean?

And to the others,

1) I don't want to start a religion war BECAUSE I'm looking to debate evolution, not religion. I find it fascinating in a philosophical nature, without ill-intent.

and 2) I'm not saying that black, asian, white, whoever is better or worse, I'm saying they're DIFFERENT. This difference should not exist if we were all just created.

So I do not mean to argue religion, but debate evolution civily. I do not mean to incite racism, but take skin color as evidence since it does exist. I fear I may get the 'you're racist because you acknowledge people come in different colors' card thrown at me.

>.>

 

[bue519]

My argument? There are black people, and there are white people (among other ethnicities) and that is a pretty 'substantial change' in the human species.

You know the same argument was used to justify slavery and it is still as ignorant as ever. Just because someone has different colored skin doesn't mean that that they are a substantial change.

There was a TV series last month about the first humans and they made a CG Picture of what they'd typically look like and it seemed to be a mix of all races, was pretty cool.

I bet man. We just are what we are now cause of where our ancestors decided to travel to. Some went north and some went south. So I don't buy Wolfwoods idea that because of your ethnicity that your an off shoot of the human species.

 

[Mantonio]

Well, yeah, it kind of destroys the argument of the Young Earth because evolutionary changes take more time but most Creationists don't even believe in the Young Earth anymore.
The more basic problems that arise between Creationists and Evolutionists aren't really about the Young Earth.

If only that were true. The mainstream group of Christians in America are Young Earth Creationists.

 

[NDWolfwood5268]

My argument? There are black people, and there are white people (among other ethnicities) and that is a pretty 'substantial change' in the human species.

You know the same argument was used to justify slavery and it is still as ignorant as ever. Just because someone has different colored skin doesn't mean that that they are a substantial change.

There was a TV series last month about the first humans and they made a CG Picture of what they'd typically look like and it seemed to be a mix of all races, was pretty cool.

I bet man. We just are what we are now cause of where our ancestors decided to travel to. Some went north and some went south. So I don't buy Wolfwoods idea that because of your ethnicity that your an off shoot of the human species.

Evolution happens over time, starting small and moving up. Wolves and domesticated dogs are considered different species, I think (didn't google that one) but they can cross breed. Each ethnicity, by the theory I'm running with, developed traits to deal with their environment, but didn't split from the human race. They have MINOR adaptations. If societies remained closed through prejudice and lack of travel options, each ethnicity, in theory, would have become a separate race. What we have a subsets of minor adaptations.

 

[Skeleon]

and 2) I'm not saying that black, asian, white, whoever is better or worse, I'm saying they're DIFFERENT. This difference should not exist if we were all just created.

This I think we can all agree on.

I know for a fact that Africans are more susceptible to Diabetes Mellitus, while Caucasians are more prone to skin cancer. Asians are more likely to develop T-Cell-Lymphoma while the others tend to get B-Cell-Lymphoma more often.

I do agree with you that we need to accept certain differences on specific aspects while I am also a firm believer of the idea that every human is of the same value.
I don't think you're trying to incite racism.

Also, since according to evolution, we all started out in Africa, questions of heritage shouldn't matter in any society. Apart from the medical and anthropologically scientific interests.

 

[BonsaiK]

Differences between the blackest black man and the whitest white man in terms of genetic DNA coding are somewhere in the order of 0.02%. This isn't even anywhere near the amount of genetic difference between, say, two different species of dog or cat. It's not actually enough of a difference to really say that either is significantly "more evolved". That's why racism is wrong - racism may or may not be wrong morally depending on your point of view but it has always been wrong scientifically. That's why the scientists working under the Third Reich never came up with any significant breakthroughs in the study of human evolution - the scientic foundation of their studies was incorrect because it assumed racial superiority in situations where the genetic code was virtually identical.

So essentially we ARE all one race. The 0.02% of different genetic coding between humans of different cultures controls only a very few minor things, like the amount of melanin in the skin, slight changes to facial features etc - it's not enough of a difference to be evolutionarily significant, not by a long shot. It's not a "substantial change" in evolutionary terms. And a lot of the other reasons why black people, white people, asian people etc are different are actually cultural, not racial, and cultures have evolved differently due to things like temperature and land conditions in different parts of the Earth, including the amount of available sunlight which affects melanin and therefore skin/eye/hair colour... do some studies in ethnology and you can find out more about this, but basically, all humans are at the same level in evolutionary terms, they've just adapted to their different 'zones' on the Earth.

I'm not going near the religion debate though. Both atheists and religious people of all types need to learn to live and let live and stop arguing about that crap. Believe what you want to believe.

 

[Skeleon]

If only that were true. The mainstream group of Christians in America are Young Earth Creationists.

Really, are you sure? Wow, I may have given them more credit than was due. :-\

 

[ThreeWords]

Here's another take:

The Christian God exists outside of time, and therefore, experiences the time like we do a picture: any or all of it, and in no particular order. He(?) is claimed to have created life instantly

Evolution states that differences between generations add up to major changes over long periods of time (millions of years)

For a being that experiences the whole of time at once (inestimable trillions of centuries, if not infinite), there would be almost no difference between a millisecond and a million years.

Thus, to God, we have been 'instantly' created. It just appears to have taken so long because our viewpoint is so infinitely tiny

(Disclaimer: This is not my belief, but a theoretical possibility)