Why do current RPGs not have scythes?

[Sir-jackington]

interesting point......i never noticed such weaponary racism

 

[Judgement101]

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.

Exactly, why go into a fight with scythe, a FARMING tool, when you could use... oh lets say a halberd, you know something thats actually made to be used as a weapon?

Anything that can cut bundles of grain in a single swipe can cut through a person. Scythes were used in combat by Ninja, alongside pruning shears, hedge trimmers, and digging trowels. Why? Because they were posing as landscapers and gardeners (you know, generally unimportant and uninteresting people to nobility).

Would you use a scythe against, lets say Cavalry? You [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naginata] betcha [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaive]. What about against armored opponents? Absolutely [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusarigama]. It started as a farming tool. But it's till a big, sharp blade that can be used as such.

Also you CAN play as a scythe-wielder. [http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dervish]

I think the reason player characters in most traditional RPGs don't wield scythes is due to the generally "evil" imagery attached to it. Mostly thanks to:

Spoiler: this fella

Good guys just don't wield scythes, thanks to good old Death here.

I reject your logic! In Diablo II I'm a paladin (holy warrior for the RPG uneducated) and I weild a scythe and occasionally a pitch-black sword.

 

[Zacharine]

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.

Exactly, why go into a fight with scythe, a FARMING tool, when you could use... oh lets say a halberd, you know something thats actually made to be used as a weapon?

It's sharp and can cut stuff. Sound like a perfect weapon. Also, knives were cooking tools and are considered weapons.

On a scythe, the blade is also quite thin and fragile, and the sharp edge is pointed towards yourself. To get an effective swing at your opponent, you need to stand almost next to them and slightly to the side. It is just an unwieldy staff with useless iron bits tacked on to screw balance, speed and combat effectivness in general.

Knives on the other hand are easy to wield, easy to conceal, won't break off the moment they hit something solid and fast and quick while retaining lethality.

Now, I wouldn't like to go against a sword with either, but if I'd have to choose, I'd choose the dagger: get in close and keep stabbing him in quick succession.

The tip of the scythe blade is pointed so you can impale them on the side then put the blade towards you to cause serious internal damage.

ANd by the point you get into position to make that swing, a single good punch will stop you (you're in range after all), or they simply shrug it off with a shield/metal armor.

Normal scythes aren't made to pierce steel or copper, but to reap plants. Often, the very tip is in fact dull for improved safety: the farmer has no need for a sharp point on his scyther.

War-scythes are another story entirely, because they are simply poor-man's spears, and can act as such (to a point. The actual blade is still quite fragile if it is simply a reforged farmer's tool).

But the most important point here is, if the scythe is such a good weapon, why hasn't it been used? WE know of peasants using pitchforks, staves, knives, spears, hand-held sickels etc. We know of swords, halbergs, chains with balls, clubs, morning-stars etc.

Why is the scythe not similarly associated with an angry mob, as the pitchfork?

Because even an untrained farmer will know he stands a better chance of victory with a straight piece of wood in his hands, with a short, sharp, durable, straight-ahead pointing piece of metal at one end.

That is why war-scythes were born: they had scythes, and needed practical weapons: hence the reforging into something resembling a spear.

 

[Wedlock49]

ahem; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

 

[Judgement101]

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.

Exactly, why go into a fight with scythe, a FARMING tool, when you could use... oh lets say a halberd, you know something thats actually made to be used as a weapon?

It's sharp and can cut stuff. Sound like a perfect weapon. Also, knives were cooking tools and are considered weapons.

On a scythe, the blade is also quite thin and fragile, and the sharp edge is pointed towards yourself. To get an effective swing at your opponent, you need to stand almost next to them and slightly to the side. It is just an unwieldy staff with useless iron bits tacked on to screw balance, speed and combat effectivness in general.

Knives on the other hand are easy to wield, easy to conceal, won't break off the moment they hit something solid and fast and quick while retaining lethality.

Now, I wouldn't like to go against a sword with either, but if I'd have to choose, I'd choose the dagger: get in close and keep stabbing him in quick succession.

The tip of the scythe blade is pointed so you can impale them on the side then put the blade towards you to cause serious internal damage.

ANd by the point you get into position to make that swing, a single good punch will stop you (you're in range after all), or they simply shrug it off with a shield/metal armor.

Normal scythes aren't made to pierce steel or copper, but to reap plants. Often, the very tip is in fact dull for improved safety: the farmer has no need for a sharp point on his scyther.

War-scythes are another story entirely, because they are simply poor-man's spears, and can act as such (to a point. The actual blade is still quite fragile if it is simply a reforged farmer's tool).

But the most important point here is, if the scythe is such a good weapon, why hasn't it been used? WE know of peasants using pitchforks, staves, knives, spears, hand-held sickels etc. We know of swords, halbergs, chains with balls, clubs, morning-stars etc.

Why is the scythe not similarly associated with an angry mob, as the pitchfork?

Because even an untrained farmer will know he stands a better chance of victory with a straight piece of wood in his hands, with a short, sharp, durable, straight-ahead pointing piece of metal at one end.

That is why war-scythes were born: they had scythes, and needed practical weapons: hence the reforging into something resembling a spear.

Back up the logic train. I asked in RPGs not IRL. So the armor piercing aspect has no place in this.

 

[Judgement101]

Add to topic:I do not mean War Scythes! I mean the curved blade on a pole.

 

[thedoclc]

Mind you, there were scythes used as weapons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe
Point is, they'd most likely be impractical in a fight one against one ( or one against many) as you have in your typical RPG. Another point I could imagine that it is, even when transformed into a weapon, still the weapon of a farmer. Swords, axes and spears on the other hand have a more heroic touch to them.

Agreed.

Yes, though these were modified scythes similar to common pole weapons. I don't think this is what the person who started this wants. They want a bad-ass, Grim Reaper style scythe, which would be horrifically unwieldy. A farmer's scythe would be a terrible weapon.

Now, frankly, I appreciate realism in some games and styles, but there's a limit to how much realism we actually need. In a dirty, grimy Dragon Age style RPG, a scythe as a weapon would look preposterous. The LACK of spears and pole weapons in Dragon Age is just as silly-looking. However, RPGs which aren't trying to be realistic can go right ahead and tell realism to shove off. I mean, Kratos' chain blades. Anyone want him to ditch those ridiculously impossible S&M props and switch to a more realistic hoplon and dari? Hell no! It's pure escapism.

I think it's three things.
1) Some games do aim for realism and so don't do scythes.
2) Other weapons are just perceived to be cooler and more heroic. Many people don't know or realize how much pole weapons and spears really were far more common in the pre-Industrial days, and don't think those weapons are as cool.
3) Animation.

The animation for most RPGs where axes and maces are also used show them being used just like a sword, which is not realistic. An axe is not wielded the same way. Still, the animators just change the weapon in the character's hand. It plays well on screen and no one cares (including myself). Scythes, spears, and pole weapons would require whole new sets of animations - especially if the enemies parry rather than just have a generic 'block.' Scythes would also be hard to add in and require new animations, etc. Plus, I mean, making a fight with a scythe look believable would be hard; it's -not- a weapon.

EDIT: Glaives, naginatas, fauchards, etc, are modified from scythes. They're weapons which were developed from a farm tool, but are no longer such. Many weapons did come from farm tools, but were adapted to war; they don't remain farm tools. No one would take a 'holy water sprinkler' (morning star) and try to thresh grain with it.

 

[masseyguy911]

ahem; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

Yes there were war scythe, but they still were impractical and hardly ever used. Also, these were just regular farming scythes, just remade into a polearm, so I doubt that they were made out of sturdy materials, and besides were talking about regular scythes.
Which, once again, were FARMING tools. The whole "well they're sharp" not really, a farmer wouldn't need a really sharp scythe, just sharp enough to cut through grain and such, against chainmail or the like it would do nothing.
SO why don't we see scythes? Simple, they are large, heavy, rather dull, and not a weapon. Now, why don't we see more polearms in RPGs, like spears, or halberds that I honestly don't know.

 

[Simple Bluff]

Well if it's the rule of cool were after, then why use real weapons at all, instead of painters tools like giant brushes and canvas' or various thickness? Or furniture?

Games aren't trying to be contrary when they used absurdly oversized, gimmicky, or easily mishandled weapons. They're not going to use furniture or painter tools just for the sake of it, or for the rule of the cool. They're trying to be badass, funny or different. It's all to do with aesthetecism. I don't care how futile you may think that is, but it'd be pretty boring if everyone used a sword or axe.

Because you need a serious weapon to take an opponent seriously. After all, who woiuld you be afraid of more, the guy who carries the Mighty Miniature Battle Spatula Of Doom, or the guy with a glowing warhammer and steel shield?

Spatula of doom sounds pretty good to me. Perhaps he could use a toilet lid as a sheild?

And yet games do precisely this. Mostly at an attempt for alleviated sense of dread in JRPGs, or to go with whatever bat-excrement insane world they've constructed this time.

And that isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. Insanity (be it bat excretment or otherwise) beats real life any day, if you're into that sort of thing. And I am, being a Kingdom Hearts fan.

EDIT: Bloody quotefail. I know I'm gonna be wasting 10 minutes fixing this.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Motion capture costs too much for modern games with "paired animation" fights that have more lifelike combat with blocks and parries. RPGs are all about rare, exotic or fictional weapons that might or might not be stupid in a real fight so I doubt that authenticity is a concern.

 

[Souplex]

Snippity. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naginata] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaive]. What about against armored opponents?

Those are polearms not scythes.

 

[Necator15]

Final Fantasy XI and .hack//G.U. both use scythes as weapons.
I, too, am miffed about a lack of polearms and axes as weapons in games. They're rather fun. But, why do axes often get categorized as blunt weapons? Can someone explain this to me?

You have a point. Why are axes considered blunt? I cut myself on one yesterday.

It's because the method you would hit someone with it is extremely similar to the method you would hit someone with a giant hammer.

As has been said previously scythes aren't practical. If you're willing to go from "Scythe" to "Sickle" then a Harpe might fit the bill. It's a fusion of a sickle and sword. It's how Theseus killed Medusa. Mythology is fun!

 

[Davey Woo]

Guild Wars has Scythes.
Well, the Dervishes do.

So does Neverwinter Nights come to think of it.

 

[unicornninja]

Ninja Gaiden 2 has a scythe and its awesome so why cant they be more popular in gaming. I mean who cares if its impractical most of the melee weapons in L4D2 are impractical i mean who would use a frying pan or a crowbar to fight zombies?!?!? Besides its a game its not reality if i want reality in my games ill go outside!

 

[Judgement101]

Final Fantasy XI and .hack//G.U. both use scythes as weapons.
I, too, am miffed about a lack of polearms and axes as weapons in games. They're rather fun. But, why do axes often get categorized as blunt weapons? Can someone explain this to me?

You have a point. Why are axes considered blunt? I cut myself on one yesterday.

It's because the method you would hit someone with it is extremely similar to the method you would hit someone with a giant hammer.

As has been said previously scythes aren't practical. If you're willing to go from "Scythe" to "Sickle" then a Harpe might fit the bill. It's a fusion of a sickle and sword. It's how Theseus killed Medusa. Mythology is fun!

You use a sword in the same manor you use an axe.

OT:When I say scythe I mean grim reaper scythe/farmer scythe. Not war scythe or sickle.

 

[Souplex]

To people who are countering with "It doesn't have to be realistic!":
Gunblades aren't realistic, but that doesn't stop them form being stupid.

Spoiler: So stupid...

 

[Peteron]

Maybe if you looked into the background of the weapon you call a "scythe," you would realize it is a tool used for farming. In some games scythes are present, but are used as a spear or pole arm.

 

[Judgement101]

To people who are countering with "It doesn't have to be realistic!":
Gunblades aren't realistic, but that doesn't stop them form being stupid.

But scythes aren't stupid. Hmmmmmm gunblade+scythe......Gunscythe.....awesomeness!

 

[masseyguy911]

Final Fantasy XI and .hack//G.U. both use scythes as weapons.
I, too, am miffed about a lack of polearms and axes as weapons in games. They're rather fun. But, why do axes often get categorized as blunt weapons? Can someone explain this to me?

You have a point. Why are axes considered blunt? I cut myself on one yesterday.

It's because the method you would hit someone with it is extremely similar to the method you would hit someone with a giant hammer.

As has been said previously scythes aren't practical. If you're willing to go from "Scythe" to "Sickle" then a Harpe might fit the bill. It's a fusion of a sickle and sword. It's how Theseus killed Medusa. Mythology is fun!

You use a sword in the same manor you use an axe.

OT:When I say scythe I mean grim reaper scythe/farmer scythe. Not war scythe or sickle.

No, no you do NOT use a sword the same way you use an axe. If you would take the time to learn about weapons such as these, you would learn that.

 

[greendrag13]

Final Fantasy XI and .hack//G.U. both use scythes as weapons.
I, too, am miffed about a lack of polearms and axes as weapons in games. They're rather fun. But, why do axes often get categorized as blunt weapons? Can someone explain this to me?

They're sort of placed in between blunt and edged weapons. In the middle ages, European weapons were not the sharp bits of steel in most RPGs, they were usually dull and made of iron. You could cut skin, but doing damage required smashing the weapon through the enemy. Axes are remembered this way, while RPG swords come from the Far East, where the guy making the sword was a valued artisan, rather than the village blacksmith.

Also, try cutting wood with a sword. It can be a lot sharper than the axe, but it just doesn't have the brute weight to force its way through

A guess on the reason of sword-heavy RPGs. Swords took more metal and were harder to make than most other weapons. This meant that rich people tended to have the swords, and no one wants to play an RPG as the peasant.