Why do current RPGs not have scythes?

[masseyguy911]

There are many reasons designers wouldn't want a scythe as a weapon. First and foremost, it's not a weapon. Yes, things like knives can be both tools and weapons, but that's because cutting food and cutting foes require similar cutting motion. A scythe has a specific method to be used, and swinging it like a staff or axe makes no more sense than using a fishing rod as a sword. On the other hand, designers can get pretty creative and liberal when it comes to combat; I've seen weirder things used as primary weapons: string instruments, footwear, wrenches.

It's possible that the designers simply feel uncomfortable giving the good guy a scythe. As we all know, the scythe is usually a religious symbol for death, or the "Grim Reaper", and some designers might equate that to wielding Satan's pitchfork or something.

Another reason could be artistic. I remember once I was browsing some mods for TES4: Oblivion that added user-made weapons to the game. The blades and maces came in hundreds of different shapes, styles, and sizes. Then some of the modders tried including scythes, but every single scythe looked the same. Why is this?

Here's my theory: Designers like swords, axes, hammers, and staffs because there are various ways to design them. There are nigh-infinite ways to draw swords: lightsabers, the Master sword, Soul Edge, a katana. All swords. Think of all the ways you could visualize a staff. Visual artists resort to these weapon types because they're general and there's multiple ways to draw them. Having different visual styles for a single weapon type adds flavor and variety to a game. But, the scythe has a very certain shape and fixed curvature. The scythe in one game would look just like the scythe in the next game, and would be pretty boring.

You know... I like your theory, I got to admit it makes more sense than mine.
The visual design theory makes the most since, when you think of a scythe, you pretty much think of the same looking thing, unlike swords and such.

You can design scythes to look different. Make the blade larger/smaller, pole longer/shorter, and the color of the blade different.

And thats it, make it a bit longer, and maybe a different color. It just seems like you really want scythe in your games don't you, and no amount of logic will satisfy you as to why they just aren't in games...

 

[The_ModeRazor]

Because scythes are not weapons.
Now the real question is, why are there no people with the AK-47 as their signature weapon?

 

[Avayu]

But having the hero in shining armour using a scythe would completely break my immersion.

...I know you're a troper, so I'll just point out that Your Mileage May Vary. Having a protagonist using a Sinister Scythe (and subsequently subverting the expectation by proving that Dark Is Not Evil) would be totally sweet.

Your Mileage May Vary indeed. The way you say that it sounds good. In a suitably fantastic setting that might work. But most (western) RPGs operate in a medieval fantasy setting, where the scythe simply doesn't fit in.
Sorry, too late for me to think of the fitting tropes.

 

[Judgement101]

There are many reasons designers wouldn't want a scythe as a weapon. First and foremost, it's not a weapon. Yes, things like knives can be both tools and weapons, but that's because cutting food and cutting foes require similar cutting motion. A scythe has a specific method to be used, and swinging it like a staff or axe makes no more sense than using a fishing rod as a sword. On the other hand, designers can get pretty creative and liberal when it comes to combat; I've seen weirder things used as primary weapons: string instruments, footwear, wrenches.

It's possible that the designers simply feel uncomfortable giving the good guy a scythe. As we all know, the scythe is usually a religious symbol for death, or the "Grim Reaper", and some designers might equate that to wielding Satan's pitchfork or something.

Another reason could be artistic. I remember once I was browsing some mods for TES4: Oblivion that added user-made weapons to the game. The blades and maces came in hundreds of different shapes, styles, and sizes. Then some of the modders tried including scythes, but every single scythe looked the same. Why is this?

Here's my theory: Designers like swords, axes, hammers, and staffs because there are various ways to design them. There are nigh-infinite ways to draw swords: lightsabers, the Master sword, Soul Edge, a katana. All swords. Think of all the ways you could visualize a staff. Visual artists resort to these weapon types because they're general and there's multiple ways to draw them. Having different visual styles for a single weapon type adds flavor and variety to a game. But, the scythe has a very certain shape and fixed curvature. The scythe in one game would look just like the scythe in the next game, and would be pretty boring.

You know... I like your theory, I got to admit it makes more sense than mine.
The visual design theory makes the most since, when you think of a scythe, you pretty much think of the same looking thing, unlike swords and such.

You can design scythes to look different. Make the blade larger/smaller, pole longer/shorter, and the color of the blade different.

And thats it, make it a bit longer, and maybe a different color. It just seems like you really want scythe in your games don't you, and no amount of logic will satisfy you as to why they just aren't in games...

You hit the nail right on the head.

 

[masseyguy911]

There are many reasons designers wouldn't want a scythe as a weapon. First and foremost, it's not a weapon. Yes, things like knives can be both tools and weapons, but that's because cutting food and cutting foes require similar cutting motion. A scythe has a specific method to be used, and swinging it like a staff or axe makes no more sense than using a fishing rod as a sword. On the other hand, designers can get pretty creative and liberal when it comes to combat; I've seen weirder things used as primary weapons: string instruments, footwear, wrenches.

It's possible that the designers simply feel uncomfortable giving the good guy a scythe. As we all know, the scythe is usually a religious symbol for death, or the "Grim Reaper", and some designers might equate that to wielding Satan's pitchfork or something.

Another reason could be artistic. I remember once I was browsing some mods for TES4: Oblivion that added user-made weapons to the game. The blades and maces came in hundreds of different shapes, styles, and sizes. Then some of the modders tried including scythes, but every single scythe looked the same. Why is this?

Here's my theory: Designers like swords, axes, hammers, and staffs because there are various ways to design them. There are nigh-infinite ways to draw swords: lightsabers, the Master sword, Soul Edge, a katana. All swords. Think of all the ways you could visualize a staff. Visual artists resort to these weapon types because they're general and there's multiple ways to draw them. Having different visual styles for a single weapon type adds flavor and variety to a game. But, the scythe has a very certain shape and fixed curvature. The scythe in one game would look just like the scythe in the next game, and would be pretty boring.

You know... I like your theory, I got to admit it makes more sense than mine.
The visual design theory makes the most since, when you think of a scythe, you pretty much think of the same looking thing, unlike swords and such.

You can design scythes to look different. Make the blade larger/smaller, pole longer/shorter, and the color of the blade different.

And thats it, make it a bit longer, and maybe a different color. It just seems like you really want scythe in your games don't you, and no amount of logic will satisfy you as to why they just aren't in games...

You hit the nail right on the head.

Well thats all fine that you want them in games, but honestly there are so many reasons why they are not in any modern RPGs. Really, the only reason why one be would be because they look cool, which admittedly they do.

 

[Kiju]

As it has been stated already, scythes are a farming implement and only used as a weapon as a last resort, usually when farmers are rallied up to become a militia. Even then they're usually given some rudimentary training in a different kind of weapon.

They aren't a bad weapon, but their purpose does not include killing people.

Most 'war scythes' are just voulges or naginatas.

 

[twaddle]

scythes can make good weapon but that seriously depends on certain factors

a traditional scythe is sharp on the bottom side of the blade and dull on top. The tool requires you to reach or swing the blade behind the object and pull to deliver damage. Swing down is a stabbing motion is impractical because the blade is curve and mostly the dull side of the blade would hit since the blade is curve inward.

Now a modified or war scythe can do more. If both sides of the blade are sharpened then you can also deliver a thrusting motion like a spear and you can swing downward to deliver damage as well.
This can be even futher modified if the blade extends over the edge of the butt of the staff and and their is a bladed tip at the bottom of the staff. A truely practical fantasy war staff can be seen in the game kingdom hearts CoM.

see how the staff is blade on all ends instead of like the scythe. even the top of the scythe is sharped.
now for some practical aplication.

see how effectively he uses his scythe at the beginning of the battle. (sadly he is defeated by a cheap shot from goofy)

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Xenosaga [1] had one for KOS-MOS, and try as I might I could not make it worthwhile. Shame too because it looked really cool. If I recall rightly, it was average when you got it (assuming you got it at the earliest possible point) but it's damage scaled terribly.

 

[Therumancer]

I've never really thought about that; though now that it comes to mind there is a very distinct lack of any two-handed weapons entirely!

This is something I have also noticed, and truthfully I think it goes back to AD&D. With early RPGs you were basically given a choice of a single weapon or a weapon and shield as an option. A two hander generally did one dice size up from a one hander, while a shield gave you an extra point of armor class making you harder to hit/damage. The differance between rolling 1d8 for damage and 1d10 for damage was not signifigant enough to warrent giving up a shield.

It wasn't too long before people really started getting into the idea of wanting to use two weapons at the same time. Pretty much as a way of getting an extra attack, multiple attacks being a VERY big deal especially in early D&D games. This served to pretty much invalidate the usage of shields, since there really wasn't any comparison to getting a whole 'nother attack. Getting a point of armor class, or potentially two more points of damage in exchange for being able to hit twice in a round for 1d8 damage? (or even less, in AD&D a lot of the actual damage wound up coming from strength and skills like weapon specialization rather than the base weapon damage).

This is when PnP RPGs were becoming very "game like" compared to their original "simulation" roots from war games. This is also the general period that inspired most computer RPGs which intentionally used rules and logic very similar to the game(s) that inspired them (or game, since we are talking about AD&D).

I personally feel the only time D&D ever had anything close to logic in it's fighting styles was with the very complex "Combat and Tactics" supplement for AD&D 2nd edition (my favorite edition). Shields gave people a massive advantage in real fighting, and I'd much rather have a sword and shield than a second weapon. Through the usage of things like "block-trap" manuvers and adding extra AC they were made viable. Rules for impact, knockdowns, and some of the skills made two handers viable for people who wanted to do a whole lot of damage with one shot, especially given that other effects could be achieved. It was for example possible for a real he-man with a giant hammer to keep hitting someone and knocking them over into a prone position and prevent them from doing much of anything... etc...

Very few games get into that much thought though, Dragon Age: Origins did a fairly good job of balancing out the three big fighting types (sword and shield, two handed, dual wield). Your typical RPG doesn't put that much logic into it.

-

More on topic, a Scythe can be an iconic weapon, I mean the Grim Reaper carries one to 'reap souls' and it can be pretty intimidating. Typically the guys who use them in RPGs are necromancers and mages. For example in "Record Of Agarest War" a Scythe is basically a weapon with it's slots divided between dark magic and physical attacks, being directed primarily at warrior-mages who fall more into the caster catagory.

Oh and also for those who have read this far here is a reward of sorts for those who didn't know:

In Ultima 7 you can wield Death's Scythe as a weapon, and yes it IS better than the "Hoe Of Destruction".

The easiest way to do this is in Trinsic in the beginning when you visit the blacksmith shop of Spark's Father (the one where you hear the guardian, and stuff seems to move on it's own) take all the boxes inside and stack them up outside to form a set of steps towards the roof. Walk up them onto the roof and head towards the Chimney, you should wind up inside a hidden room where there are chests full of uber weapons (the best stuff in the game) including Death's Scythe.

So umm, yeah, if noone else mentioned it there are two farming tools you can wield as a weapon.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I meant the gun barrel would be the pole of the scythe. You could shoot at someone and when the dodge you chage up and stab them. (bullet comes from the top of the pole near the blade)

There are no bullets. Gunblades don't shoot things.

Wild arms has a rifle that has a blade mounted to it,so some do shoot things but are they gun swords are gunblades....mmmmmmmm.

A normal human with a scythe sucks,a skilled superhuman can combine both the staff and blade parts and fully utilize every bit of the weaopn, calling it a board with a nail in it is a bit disingenuous.......

Not really, was Sephiroth a middle ages peasant? Specialised training can render a scythe moderately useful but the same training could be better applied to real weapons. A scythe was never a weapon of choice. Look at the handle, that's fucking oak! That's not built for spinny-ninja shit, that's built for a heavy swing to lend momentum to the implement and make it last longer. Also remember how these guys fought, they didn't all line up Final Fantasy style in small parties, they would have been used as a unit to break cavalry charges, they would have held the scythe and braced it, maybe prodded a bit.

You miss my point,fantasy fiction tends to make weapons common thus uncommon weapons are used by the most skilled or at the very least the level of high weaopn skills is common(some weaopn skill becomes less common than no weaopn skill becomes less common than highly skilled thats less common than superior skilled thats less common than godly skilled) IE you get random people who can't fight at all but most can fight at some level with something..

 

[Ekonk]

Because it's a harvesting tool and not a weapon?


I dunno, they're awesome though. Guild Wars dervishes, yeaahhhh. Awesome scythe action.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Because scythes are not weapons.
Now the real question is, why are there no people with the AK-47 as their signature weapon?

What was Lugunas(SP) weaopn of choice in FF8? It was a machingun of some kind, also wild arms uses guns.

 

[Nailz]

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.70517-Scythes#694172
The real question is why do RPGs neglect polearms and axes? Historically they were the most commonly used melee weapons. Swords were the equivalent of an officers pistol.

Scythes as well as many farming instruments would be modded for battle in times of need. Much like how we arrived at the trident as a weapon etc. In fact all polearms have agrarian roots In fact most of everything has agrarian roots. It's like saying axes aren't weapons, they're tools for chopping wood. A good example of how a scythe could be modded/used is the Kama, which was used as a weapon as well as a farming tool and has a fighting style built around its use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama_%28weapon%29
I agree however that polearms need more representation.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Scythes are viewed as brutal weapons that look positively evil only because they are depicted to be wielded by the angel of death himself. However, the reason behind Death's odd tool choice is due to his other name being the Grim Reaper. He's a reaper of souls. Reapers are harvesters. Harvesters are farmers. Farmers use scythes. There ya go.

 

[SD-Fiend]

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.

Exactly, why go into a fight with scythe, a FARMING tool, when you could use... oh lets say a halberd, you know something thats actually made to be used as a weapon?

It's sharp and can cut stuff. Sound like a perfect weapon. Also, knives were cooking tools and are considered weapons.

not all knives are made for cooking

 

[i don't know]

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.70517-Scythes#694172
The real question is why do RPGs neglect polearms and axes? Historically they were the most commonly used melee weapons. Swords were the equivalent of an officers pistol.

adventure quest worlds has scythes, polearms, and axes.

 

[Lexodus]

Spoiler: Arumat does.

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.70517-Scythes#694172
The real question is why do RPGs neglect polearms and axes? Historically they were the most commonly used melee weapons. Swords were the equivalent of an officers pistol.

adventure quest worlds has scythes, polearms, and axes.

And a mackerel, as well as a fuckton of other stuff. I love that game

 

[Mr. Mike]

Another reason could be artistic. I remember once I was browsing some mods for TES4: Oblivion that added user-made weapons to the game. The blades and maces came in hundreds of different shapes, styles, and sizes. Then some of the modders tried including scythes, but every single scythe looked the same. Why is this?

Here's my theory: Designers like swords, axes, hammers, and staffs because there are various ways to design them. There are nigh-infinite ways to draw swords: lightsabers, the Master sword, Soul Edge, a katana. All swords. Think of all the ways you could visualize a staff. Visual artists resort to these weapon types because they're general and there's multiple ways to draw them. Having different visual styles for a single weapon type adds flavor and variety to a game. But, the scythe has a very certain shape and fixed curvature. The scythe in one game would look just like the scythe in the next game, and would be pretty boring.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gallery_of_scythes

It is perfectly possible to make scythes with many different designs. Granted, Dervishes in Guild Wars wield them in an infeasible way, spinning them about their middle, but it IS still possible to have varying scythe designs.

Edit: I know most of these designs are impractical, but I'm talking purely from a design standpoint here.

 

[Judgement101]

Another reason could be artistic. I remember once I was browsing some mods for TES4: Oblivion that added user-made weapons to the game. The blades and maces came in hundreds of different shapes, styles, and sizes. Then some of the modders tried including scythes, but every single scythe looked the same. Why is this?

Here's my theory: Designers like swords, axes, hammers, and staffs because there are various ways to design them. There are nigh-infinite ways to draw swords: lightsabers, the Master sword, Soul Edge, a katana. All swords. Think of all the ways you could visualize a staff. Visual artists resort to these weapon types because they're general and there's multiple ways to draw them. Having different visual styles for a single weapon type adds flavor and variety to a game. But, the scythe has a very certain shape and fixed curvature. The scythe in one game would look just like the scythe in the next game, and would be pretty boring.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gallery_of_scythes

It is perfectly possible to make scythes with many different designs. Granted, Dervishes in Guild Wars wield them in an infeasible way, spinning them about their middle, but it IS still possible to have varying scythe designs.

I like the Soul Reaper and the Peppermint one

 

[The Middleman]

Some do. Glory of Heracles does.