Why do many core gamers love mainstream games/movies but disparage mainstream music?

[reg42]

Short version: Because everyone has an opinion and they are entitled to it.

Long version: Because music is pretty much the most subjective form of art there is. There are so many different forms of music that it's impossible to like all of it, and if someone doesn't like mainstream music because it doesn't suite them, let them not like it. You do get people you hate anything mainstream simply because it's mainstream, but these people don't really have a leg to stand on, logically speaking.

To say that one must like mainstream music because they like mainstream movies is absurd. They are completely different art forms. It's like saying "Oh, you enjoyed Ed Wood? You would like '...and Oceans', because they're both obscure."

 

[Contextualizer]

well, the majority of mainstream games and music don't sit well with me. I like my preferred styles, and everyone else is entitled to their own opinion, even if it is wrong or against my own :S

that said, there is no excuse to have a miley cirus gamertag unless you are a 12 year old girl, or are trying to be ironic. if it is the latter case, your point in the entire thread is moot.

I like Miley Cyrus's music. I'm not 12 years old or a girl. I do use the tag to provoke reactions from people in order to try and engage them in discussion about why they react so strongly to one form of mindless media while enjoying the consumption of another form of mindless media.

But I don't think that counts as ironic. But even if it did, how exactly does that make my moot point?

 

[Mozared]

It's a combination of causes;

A) There's the elitist 15-year olds who think they're awesome by rejecting all top 40 music instantly and defending games without a thought, not even considering whether the same approach is used by those games or not.

B) Games already target a bit of a niche audience. If you're an avid gamer, you're at least partly the stereotype nerd who doesn't really care about music in the first place.

C) There *is* in fact a difference between mainstream games and mainstream music. For one, mainstream games are much less easily defined than mainstream music, so there's less of a boundary to begin with.

Second, the games industry doesn't quite feel as "exploiting" as the music industry does to me. The majority of mainstream artists just 'blurt' out music these days with the sole purpose of appealing to the market (which, like I mentioned in B, is a lot larger than the market for gamers). This doesn't seem to happen as much in games. Sure, examples can be named; Battle for Middle-Earth 2, the 3000 Sims Expansions, basically everything EA has made... Nevertheless, generally, the only games that unargueably fall into this category are games that are shipped along with popular movies. "Iron Man 2: the game". "Harry Potter & The Philosopher's Stone". The thing is that these games are few and rarely taken seriously in the first place.

Third, and this may be what I'm actually trying to say at B), it's a lot harder to 'exploit' games than it is to exploit music. All human beings are during their youth programmed in such a way that they naturally like several combinations of tones. If you keep making songs that use those same combinations over and over you're bound to hit jackpot with the majority of society. For games, it doesn't work in this game. There are FPSes, Strategy games, RPGs, Simulators... you name it. And you don't really fall outside the boat if you dislike one genre - it's completely accepted among everybody in the world that people have their own preference of playstyle. Which means that for a corporate company, it is quite hard to 'follow a succes-formula' and make money out of it. And this whole thing eventually leads to games having to be at least somewhat good before people like them. There are no people around who 'naturally' like bad games.


So basically, you could say that there are a lot of different causes to point out. The disparity between music and games would be your prime cause, though the fact that people don't put a lot of thought into it would at least apply partially as well.

Edit: Rereading your topic title has left me confused. Why exactly did I just type all this? Is your phrasing of question wrong? My story does hold merit?

 

[Ishadus]

Anyone one intelligent to even muse on a question like this is intelligent/wise enough to recognize the fact that how popular something is shouldn't affect whether YOU like something or not. If I woke up tomorrow and the entire population of the world suddenly thought a drab beige was the best colour in the world, I wouldn't exactly rush out to buy a can of paint to redo my bedroom.

I agree with the trend that was outlined by a few people above me. In most cases (although obviously not all) the quality of a medium like video games is directly related to the funding that creates it. This doesn't hold for music as the expenses to walk into a studio and record something are far less than the development of a mainstream movie/video game. So there's far less of a correlation between quality of product versus financial backing in the music industry. Money gets put behind whatever will sell, even if it's shit.

 

[Valksy]

Honestly, people need to be comfortable with enjoying the music/games/films/sports teams etc that they like and grow a thicker skin. Seriously, stop worrying about what everyone else is in to.

 

[Contextualizer]

B) Games already target a bit of a niche audience. If you're an avid gamer, you're at least partly the stereotype nerd who doesn't really care about music in the first place.

What exactly defines a niche audience when tens of millions of people play core games like Halo 3 and Modern Warfare 2?

C) There *is* in fact a difference between mainstream games and mainstream music. For one, mainstream games are much less easily defined than mainstream music, so there's less of a boundary to begin with.

How are mainstream games much less easily defined? People seem to have a pretty easy job doing so in these forums all the time.

Second, the games industry doesn't quite feel as "exploiting" as the music industry does to me. The majority of mainstream artists just 'blurt' out music these days with the sole purpose of appealing to the market (which, like I mentioned in B, is a lot larger than the market for gamers).

Where do you get the idea that the majority of mainstream artists just blurt out songs? Have you worked closely with contemporary pop musicians to gain this particular insight?

And have you ever seen the frankly cosmic process behind a major multi-national tour for a pop group? It's nothing easy or fun for the performer(s), let alone the thousands of people who are making the show happen.

Third, and this may be what I'm actually trying to say at B), it's a lot harder to 'exploit' games than it is to exploit music. All human beings are during their youth programmed in such a way that they naturally like several combinations of tones. If you keep making songs that use those same combinations over and over you're bound to hit jackpot with the majority of society.

I study music in human neuroscience, so I think it's really interesting you brought this up.

All music exploits already culturally established expectations in tonal and rhythmic resolution. It doesn't matter if it's something made in a garage by two stoners, something made by Bach, something made by Thom Yorke, or something made by Lady Gaga. If you think a specific flavor of pop music is exploitative because of this, nearly all music is exploitative.

And the few things that aren't (think Sorabji, Salonen, Cage, or whatever homeless 20th century composer you'd like) is still exploitative because it explicitly caters to the minority who reject the majority of music for being exploitative.

Framing music this way doesn't really leave you with much leeway, I'm afraid.

For games, it doesn't work in this game. There are FPSes, Strategy games, RPGs, Simulators... you name it. And you don't really fall outside the boat if you dislike one genre - it's completely accepted among everybody in the world that people have their own preference of playstyle. Which means that for a corporate company, it is quite hard to 'follow a succes-formula' and make money out of it. And this whole thing eventually leads to games having to be at least somewhat good before people like them. There are no people around who 'naturally' like bad games.

In that case, aren't all these genres exploiting already established expectations in gamers? Why is it okay to keep pumping out soulless sequels in franchises that should have died long ago?

Again, it just sounds like a difference in preference for mindless media #1 over mindless media #2.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I don't know. I love popular music, not because it's popular, but because I think it's good. Music is probably the most subjective form of entertainment. Most people here like obscure stuff or metal music that all sounds awful to me. I like something fun I can dance to, and Lady Gaga happens to be one of my favorite artists right now.

On a possibly related note, I find I don't have much in common with most other gamers. There's a certain gamer stereotype that tends to hold true a lot of the time, that is mostly the opposite of who I am. The gamers who don't hold true to the stereotype generally have many qualities of the stereotype that although less profound are still there. Nothing wrong with this at all but I can't find myself relating to them well, and as a result none of my friends are gamers.

 

[Marter]

Music is really subjective, while games aren't quite as much. There can be far more technical issues or triumphs in a game or movie, while in music, it is almost entirely subjective.

 

[Contextualizer]

I don't know. I love popular music, not because it's popular, but because I think it's good. Music is probably the most subjective form of entertainment. Most people here like obscure stuff or metal music that all sounds awful to me. I like something fun I can dance to, and Lady Gaga happens to be one of my favorite artists right now.

On a possibly related note, I find I don't have much in common with most other gamers. There's a certain gamer stereotype that tends to hold true a lot of the time, that is mostly the opposite of who I am. The gamers who don't hold true to the stereotype generally have many qualities of the stereotype that although less profound are still there. Nothing wrong with this at all but I can't find myself relating to them well, and as a result none of my friends are gamers.

Why is a game or a movie not as subjective as music? What's the difference? All of this stuff is culturally codified and standardized and then consumed for subjective qualification.

But you bring up another good point. None of my friends are gamers as well; I have a hard time talking to people about gaming related things in real life, which is funny since it comes so easily to me here!

 

[PurpleSky]

Because mainstream music sucks,and mainstream games pwn big time

He shoots....AND HE SCORES!

I think you mean why do gamers listen to metal and stuff,and not stuff on tv.Who says the mainstream is good anyway?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Why is a game or a movie not as subjective as music?

You can bring up certain facts as genuine problems with games (such as technical issues and bugs etc, and some things in game-play or design that are not really factually bad but almost universally seen as bad things anyway) where as music is much more broad and subjective in my opinion. I don't think you can really pick out many songs and say they are bad by fact. Most reasons people bring up for a song being bad are actually seen by many others as a GOOD thing, so in the end its almost completely down to opinions.

 

[obex]

TBH its kind of a silly question its like finding out what the most popular type of cake is and the most popular type of car is then grilling someone because they like the most popular type of car but not the most popular type of cake. Just because these are 2 forms of media (games and music not cake and cars) doesn't mean there will be a correlation of enjoyment between the two.

The obvious question raised by that is "if there is no correlation between then why don't we get a more un-bias few?" the answer is that although there is no correlation between whether a person enjoys modern warfare 2 and lady gaga you need to consider the demographic of people who spend time on internet gaming forums making threads is it popular music lovers? Not usually.

What we have is the fact that people who like mainstream music and video gaming are not the people who post allot on internet forums this forum does not represent the entire of the gaming population as i know tonnes of people who own ps3's ect and love lady Gaga but they dont post here so i can see how this conclusion has been drawn

 

[Plurralbles]

I'm sorry but how does modern warfare compare to justin bieber/lady gaga/rap people of all sorts?

 

[Custard_Angel]

I never liked the following games/game series:

- Gears of War
- Grand Theft Auto
- Final Fantasy

I never liked the following movies/movie series:

- Star Wars
- Lord of the Rings
- Avatar

I never liked the following singers/bands:

- Rhianna
- Green Day
- Linkin Park

I am unaffected by mainstream pressure. I like what I like and say fuck off to the rest.

 

[Plank of Wood]

Gamers are a niche audiance. As mainstream as you think gaming is, it is not nearly as mainstream as mainstream music is. Lets be honest here, most people on gaming forums are, and always have bee, nerds. I'm a nerd, you're a nerd, he's a nerd, all of us: nerds. And if there's one think nerds hate, it's mainstream music.

Also, my irrational and unexplainable nausious reaction to Lady Gaga has nothing to do with gaming, for you see, I am a fan of 60s and 70s music, especially prog rock and hard rock, which is thanks to my Dad's conditioning to classic rock since I was born. I actually like her as a person, I just convulse into the fetal position whenever Pop music reaches my ears.

 

[Spookboy666]

I like what I like which is sometimes mainstream things. Sometimes things are mainstream for a reason, because they are good.

Worry about whether something is mainstrem or not is what Hipsters do, and really, who wants to be a hipster?

 

[Plank of Wood]

Yeah, it's good you quoted the first post, otherwise I'd of had no idea what you were talking about.

 

[Evil the White]

A metaphorical slap for you. Lady GaGa is the best mainstream artist to emerge in recent years. Mainly because it is a) quite good music and b) she actually writes it, so it comes from her, rather than a bored songwriter writing it for the biggest check.

And mainstream games are mainstream for a reason: THEY ARE GOOD.
(Except Halo.)
It's one thing that if people listen to a track long enough they get dulled to it, whereas with a game, you've got to enjoy it to get anywhere near that stage.