Why do people hate JRPGs?

[Kahunaburger]

Because 99% of games calling themselves JRPGs are animated movies that limit player interaction to clicking X on an attack. No player agency in the world, no affect on the story, no player made decisions in dialog, no player influence on the story, no character development beyond exactly what the developer wants--these are all things diametrically opposed to the roleplaying experience.

Final Fantasy: not an RPG.

Planescape Torment: an RPG.

I enjoy the fact that a Bioware writing director is making this case that FFXIII is not an RPG: "You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character..." xD

(FFXIII has mechanics derived from P&P RPGs. It's an RPG. Whether it's a good one is up for debate haha.)

That's a distinction not a lot of people seem to notice. JRPG's are roleplaying games in their gameplay, but not so much in their story. Where Western RPG's are roleplaying games in the DnD sense where the story progresses at your own pace.

Unless it's a Bioware game haha. Can't let player decisions getting in the way of the story they want to tell!

Honestly, I like it better that way. Western RPG's focus on open worlds with not much substance to them, and JRPG's focus on a specific storyline and their own characters.

BioWare games have lots of side content to them, but progression is actually rather linear with the illusion of open world gameplay. Baldur's Gate 2 sets you with the task of gathering 20,000 gold to rescue Imoen, and says there's lots of adventuring out there to gather it. Like The Elder Scrolls, but with a clear goal in mind and a reason to do most of not all of the side content.

KOTOR gives you a clear destination of the Star Maps, but lets you pick the order on your own and fills every planet with side missions and party member storylines.

SWTOR has the typical MMO questing system, but with your class story actively giving your a reason to be on whatever planet you're on.

I really prefer that in a sense, and while many would not agree with me, I think games like The Elder Scrolls and Fallout could do with having a clear destination worked into their side content, rather than setting you in a big world and saying "Alright, here you are, I'm gonna go take a nap."

There's nothing particularly bad about a linear game, or even a game that gives the player little to no freedom. There's also nothing bad about open world sandbox games like Skyrim or GTA, and nothing wrong with 6-hour gratification games like Call of Duty.

This is why Black Isle and the alumni thereof rock. They understand the importance of a large world, the importance of that world being reactive, and the importance of telling a story in that world. Bioware and Bethesda at best understand the importance of one of these each.

 

[enriquetnt]

I love them, some of the best games EVER are them, and most of my favorite games of all time are in there too, (FFVI, Valkirie Profile, Vagrant Story, Cnrno Trigger, Dragon Quest V, VIII) is american RPGs that i dont swallow, brown, boring, no personality, i know im alone in this but i rather play FFXIII than Skyrim (i didnt even finish Skyrim to damn boring) and no im NOT joking or trolling this is my honest to god opinion

 

[Aeonknight]

I've actually been playing more JRPG's than other types of games recently. Just finished Tales of Graces F, which was pretty standard as far as JRPG's go but worth a play if you like the tales games.

Just cracked open Xenoblade Chronicles, which so far is amazing and I'm only a few hours into it.

Hell even FF13-2 wasn't terrible, and was a massive improvement overall on FF13.

Then there's Dark Souls, which although modeled after a WRPG in terms of gameplay, is still technically a JRPG and it was a contender for GOTY.

If you want some more Atlus goodness there's Radiant Historia, a somewhat recent but commonly overlooked game. It's probably one of the best RPG's I've seen on a handheld.


Now that I'm done fanboygasm'ing all over the place, OP, JRPG's may not be huge on the escapist but the genre is doing fine. You just have to look a little bit harder to find the good ones than you used to.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

My issue is that (other that Atlus, who are always reliable for a good JRPG with mother-fucking TURN BASED COMBAT - hell yeah! - ahem) there just haven't been many JRPGs coming out lately. And those that do... just haven't had the power of previous games.

I still hold up Xenogears as the best game ever made of any genre, and it is a JRPG. But really, it's been forever since anyone tried anything like that - an Epic and well written story with turn-based combat that relied on light, medium, and strong based attacks used in combos. In no other game is grinding random enemies so damn fun!

Even the Xenosaga trilogy, whose story I loved to pieces, couldn't recapture the intricacies and interest of the Xenogears combat system. Compared to Xenogears, in Xenosaga you stand around dully doing the exact same thing every battle (Boost KOSMOS on the x2 EXP round, X-Buster everything to death, repeat). I won't even mention Xenosaga 2, the combat of which is the video game equivalent of those monks who whip themselves.

Anyway... I, on occasion, will try poking a PS3 era JRPG, but most of them either don't have turn-based combat (I enjoyed FF 13, but, while fun, if it isn't turn-based, it isn't rubbing that JRPG happy spot for me) or, if they do have turn based, they're badly written or boring (again, aside from Atlus games, who seem to have their efforts focused directly on that turn-based nostalgia sweet-spot).

So... yeah, just haven't seen much lately that does the trick. I guess I'll be stuck waiting for Persona 5. Oh well, I'll just go play P3P or Xenogears again.

Edit: On Xenoblade Chronicles - I do not own a Wii. IF the game actually took place in the established Xenogears/Xenosaga chronology, I would have bought a Wii to play that game. It, sadly, does not - it is just written by the same person. Does it sound awesome? Yes. But it is not turn based (the combat sounds rather like FF 12, which I disliked) and Xenoblade has no impact on the existing Xenogears storyline, so... not worth buying an entire console for.

 

[TehCookie]

I can understand how they wouldn't appeal to someone, but I still have no idea how mentioning them can lead to people foaming at the mouth and insulting the genre. You can say it's the internet and it happens with everything, but JRPG bashing seems to be a lot more common and even acceptable.

Compared to how ever accepting this community is to military shooters?

Every genre gets mocked.

I would imagine people who "hated" JRPGS did so out of the beleif they were archaic, full of anime stereotypes and generally boring. Which has a degree of truth, same as saying shooters cater to "brain dead jingoistic idiots"

Whatever.

Accept that fact that some people will not enjoy what you enjoy OP and move on.

Was I not clear enough when I typed "I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW THEY WOULDN'T APPEAL TO SOMEONE"? People like different things, I would never expect everyone to agree with me. Also I already pointed out all genres are mocked, and asked why it's more frequent with JRPGs. Most people dislike sports games, but they're just ignored. Why don't people treat JRPGs the same way?

 

[squid5580]

I can understand how they wouldn't appeal to someone, but I still have no idea how mentioning them can lead to people foaming at the mouth and insulting the genre. You can say it's the internet and it happens with everything, but JRPG bashing seems to be a lot more common and even acceptable.

A lot more common than say COD bashing? Or EA bashing? Or the flavor of the week bashing (like ME 3 lately)?

I think the fans who are defending (AKA the ones forcing their likes down other people's throats) are just as much to blame here. Here is an example. I don't like COD. I didn't like 4 and I never even bothered with the rest. Yet if I tell a hardcore fan that I am going to be subjected to a rant about how I am a lesser person and blah blah blah changing my opinion from not liking to absolutely despising COD not because I hate it because I am forced to choose a side and not any middle ground. To a fan it is either love or hate. I am not allowed to simply not enjoy.

 

[Fishyash]

I personally don't see this 'hatred' that you are constantly viewing.

I personally enjoy JRPGs. I don't play them often however, because now my primary platform is the PC. JRPGs are almost always released on console.

Honestly though, even if I did oftentimes purchase games on console, I don't really see myself buying JRPGs for a different reason.

The reason is I am not really a big fan on the fact that JRPGs have taken a different turn from the old RPG route, compared to what the WRPGs have done.

Despite JRPGs having the same roots that modern WRPGs have (Mainly Wizardry and Ultima), JRPGs concentrated on simplifying the experience. They did it, (VERY well. I do enjoy JRPGs, especially when I was younger), but WRPG developers continued with developing on PC. Now that WRPGs are being released regularly on console, they have definitely gotten a different result out of it. One that I prefer.

I honestly think the line between western and japanese RPGs have blurred a little now. They still play differently and are narrated differently (beyond the aesthetics between these games) but in the end, western RPGs have a level of character personalization and personal involvement that I don't really notice in japanese RPGs.

This isn't the only reason, personally. But it's the simplest one I can come up with as to why they aren't as appealing to me nowdays.

 

[TehCookie]

I can understand how they wouldn't appeal to someone, but I still have no idea how mentioning them can lead to people foaming at the mouth and insulting the genre. You can say it's the internet and it happens with everything, but JRPG bashing seems to be a lot more common and even acceptable.

A lot more common than say COD bashing? Or EA bashing? Or the flavor of the week bashing (like ME 3 lately)?

I think the fans who are defending (AKA the ones forcing their likes down other people's throats) are just as much to blame here. Here is an example. I don't like COD. I didn't like 4 and I never even bothered with the rest. Yet if I tell a hardcore fan that I am going to be subjected to a rant about how I am a lesser person and blah blah blah changing my opinion from not liking to absolutely despising COD not because I hate it because I am forced to choose a side and not any middle ground. To a fan it is either love or hate. I am not allowed to simply not enjoy.

You are right, I was limited to the threads I've seen and I don't visit many hate threads. I just hate it when you are having a pleasant thread and someone like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.366654-Need-a-good-JRPG-for-Xbox#14302067] shows up. Trolls and the internet I know, but on the occasions I did go into other game specific threads it seemed to be less common or at least a better troll.

 

[Luca72]

Ah, Dragon Quest III, how much I loved thee for allowing me to make up my own characters with their own personalities...

...too bad the save battery died.

Holla' atcha' boy! Between the personality test at the beginning and the ability to customize every characters role in your party (dare I say it, allowing you to play multiple roles?) that game probably had the most lasting appeal to me of any JRPG. Even though it was a lot more simple in terms of gameplay and story than most others I've played.

The only thing I really like about JRPG's is that they're allowed to exist in some really out-there settings. I actually really liked the later FF's for this, but they're the only JRPG's I've played in the last few years.

What I don't like is when they go "style over substance". I think some of the outfits, machines, etc. are pretty creative, but sometimes everything is so over-stylized that there's literally nothing to connect to. Did anyone see the FFXIV trailer where a guy is fighting a monster in a fantasy setting, then all the sudden this giant sideways-helicopter rifle thing comes blasting in? It's so bananas I can't relate to anything that's going on. FFXIII seemed to have a lot of that too before I just outright quit. A lot of pretty visuals that mean nothing.

Then there's the bargain bin of character archetypes, none of which act remotely how a character would behave in real life. For Final Fantasy specifically, a series of games I still genuinely enjoy, I didn't notice how bad this was until I played Dissidia, and realized there isn't a single main character that had an interesting personality (except Zidane, kind of). I'm okay with a linear narrative as long as it provides an interesting framework for a story, but in most of these games I tend to wish I could follow the villains around instead, since their crew at least seem to have pulses.

 

[dimensional]

same reason people hate anything ignorance (not total ignorance of course as you do need to know of somethings existence to hate it) and or conflict (real or imagined) of some sort or another usually its a mix of the two, then people just start making their own reasons to justify their hatred.

well actually you can have hatred without ignorance and just conflict although I would say this is rare but you cant have hatred just from ignorance.

 

[RaikuFA]

For those who think the hate dosen't exist...

Go take a look at a review for a JRPG that isn't high profile. It's not pretty.

 

[TheVioletBandit]

I don't really like them, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy them if you want.

 

[Ryank1908]

I genuinely feel the genre has completely fallen behind. Final Fantasy 7 used to be the pinnacle of story-telling in video games and, in most modern examples, it hasn't changed in the slightest. The same character archetypes are being used in every game, the dialogue is clunky and uninspired, and translation efforts usually leave painful gaps in cutscenes and so on. When you're up against something like The Witcher 2 or the Mass Effect franchise you just can't get away with that anymore.

The JRPG is, at its core, a game that relies on storytelling, considering the amount of time you spend watching cutscenes and dialogue. Unfortunately the quality of that storytelling just isn't up to par anymore.
I am obviously talking about the general market of JRPG's. There are still fantastic examples of the genre.

 

[Austin Howe]

Essentially: Bias. There are legitimate criticisms of the genre, but most of those actually come from within the fan communities, and even those are filled with irrational bias types.

Some people can appreciate brooding, some can't. That's usually what it boils down to with story.

Gameplay is more or less something you have to adjust yourself to with the genre. Some people do so willingly, some grudgingly, and some not at all.

 

[Austin Howe]

Because 99% of games calling themselves JRPGs are animated movies that limit player interaction to clicking X on an attack. No player agency in the world, no affect on the story, no player made decisions in dialog, no player influence on the story, no character development beyond exactly what the developer wants--these are all things diametrically opposed to the roleplaying experience.

Final Fantasy: not an RPG.

Planescape Torment: an RPG.

Even fans of the genre (myself included) think it's time for a change in nomenclature. IE, this is going to stop being a relevant criticism soone enough.

 

[Don Savik]

Stop making theeeeeeeeseeeeeee.

I've already replied in like, 3 of these threads. They already exist. Please use the search.

To answer your question:

EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENT PREFERENCES. Not everyone likes what you like. Get used to it. It doesn't affect you at all.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

Popular genres tend to be judged by the most overused, over copied games.

For example, people bash Call of Duty for flooding the market with samey brown shooters, ignoring the few colorful gems like Bulletstorm. People bash JRPGS for being full of overused cliches, lackluster combat systems, bloated overdone cutscenes, angsty girly men, ridiculous plots, and dialogue that could peel paint off walls. Again, people ignore the ones that buck this trend, like the Mario&Luigi series.