Why do people hate JRPGs?

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Jitters Caffeine

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I dunno, I guess because the genre is pretty unwelcoming to people unless they are already fans of a very specific kind of game or culture. You kind of have to be okay with how very strange the way Japanese game companies write their stories, character, and how they seem to enjoy their games. Do you want to spend 70 hours playing through an incredibly difficult series of numbers, spreadsheets, multiple different menus for everything, and usually at least 2 different kinds of item crafting before you can get to the secret hidden content AFTER you beat the game? Because if you're not the kind of person who likes that stuff, then you won't like JRPGs as a genre. There's just a lot of cliches and preconceived notions about the genre that a lot of people REALLY don't want to take the time to get into.

I know I used to love the older FF games, the sprite based ones where you didn't have to spend half your game watching Titus' cringe-inducing mug smile at me for 10 minutes in between my play time, or listening to Cloud or Squall complain about things. Technology has just advanced to a point where all those game animators who wanted to make big long narratives now CAN through long CGI cutscenes. Those cutscenes just happen to be stylized very heavily from Japanese art styles. Specifically manga styles these days. A lot of people just don't like that. Not to say that anyone who doesn't like JRPGs is a CAW A DOOTY player who hates any kind of diverse color pallet, just that it's an art style that's VERY off putting if it's not something you've already accepted.

The games are usually notorious for being incredibly focused on numbers. Fighting enemies to increase your level, which increases your health/attack/magic/ect. All of which requires you to do a lot of trial and error to make sure your numbers are high enough to beat the enemies you're going to face in the upcoming area. This adds a lot of "busy work" to your game. Whether it's Pokemon or Final Fantasy, you're going to be sitting in one area fighting the same enemies over and over to level yourself up. Again, it's just not something that appeals to people.

I think the word "hate" has somehow been redefined as "Something I don't particularly like or have a strong opinion about" when we weren't looking, and we all just kind of accepted it. Do I like newer generation JRPGs? Not particularly, but I don't hate them. I find myself fully capable of ignoring them.

I also believe there's a crowd out there who will spew hatred for something they don't like and grief people who like things they don't. Usually a crowd associated with liking games that are specifically made to cater to people with short attention spans or people who need a constant sense of accomplishment or progression. Much like the CoD Multiplayer. They're the one's who will go online and start a flame war about how casual games are ruining the game industry or how gay the Wii is for not being marketed specifically to them.

All in all, why do people not like JRPGs? They're just a niche genre that appeals to people who either consciously or subconsciously have made the decision to like the art, culture, and narrative styles of Japan. Not everyone does. Kind of easy to see that.
 

Rheinmetall

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EyeReaper said:
So what is the reason behind all this hate? or is it just a bunch of FPS "hardcore" gamers acting as the voice of the community?
J-rpg have their own fan-base too, with their own voice in the internet, quite powerful I would say. My guess is that it's not only the FPS audience that doesn't like J-rpg, but also a significant part of the j-rpg players themselves who felt in a way betrayed by Square Enix, the leading company in that department, the company which always gave the pace for the entire genre. J-rpg with Square is a completely different story from j-rpg with Square Enix.
 

Terramax

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s69-5 said:
Bwahahahahahaha! No...

FPS is the most stale genre in games today. So much generic shovelware....
Bwahahahahahaha! YES!

Because these games are still playable! You actually PLAY THEM as opposed to sitting there chugging through boring cutscenes, long winded conversations and statebuilding that rarely shows immediate difference to the little gameplay there is.

s69-5 said:
Plenty:
Dragon's Dogma
Fair enough. It's basically a Japanese RPG immitating a Western RPG, but we'll take that.


Demon's / Dark Souls
Although this arguably more an action game, than RPG. But fair enough, we'll take this one.

Atelier: xxxxxx (series) - no big evil. No need to save the planet. Often don't even need to kill a single monster if you choose not to.
Oh, please.... look at it!

Eh, another 'action rpg', but we'll take that.

Valkyria Chronicles
Are you being serious? Teenage anime characters, terrible anime voice acting, and tactical elements only original if you haven't played games like Breathe of Fire Dragoons Quarter. And is the story groundbreaking?

FF: Versus XIII
Well, don't know if I can judge as it hasn't been released. It looks to have your typical melodramatic FF acting, and typically young and beautiful main characters. They're saying it'll have 'the darkest ff plot yet' so there's hope, but why put out a game that's not been released yet?

...and many more...
You might have to list these 'many more' because besides the 'action RPGs', there's not much to prove me wrong so far. And are we saying that JRPGs are only innovative or different if they're just immitating Western RPGs?
 

Terramax

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Jitters Caffeine said:
This, really. He nails several points. Like the emphasis on stat building as opposed to true gameplay, which is something that you can't even complain about in FPS games.

Kahunaburger said:
Is the story of Dungeons of Dredmor that engaging or innovative? What story?

Is Dungeons of Dredmor a breath of fresh air for commercial WRPGs? Yep.
Never heard of that game. And what makes you think I haven't got any gripes against WRPGs? I play less of those than I play JRPGs.

Off the top of my head: Demons' Souls/Dark Souls, Devil Survivor, Ni No Kuni, Recettear, and a variety of ports. I barely play JRPGs, though, so someone who actually is into the genre can probably give you more examples.
Well, I looked up some stuff regarding Devil Survivor - how is it different?

Kinda looks like FF Tactics Advance, but with ANOTHER layer of turn based fighting to think about.


It also appears to star yet more anime 15 year olds. At the end, they've even included a lovely skirt shot for fans to fantasise over.
 

Jitters Caffeine

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Kahunaburger said:
Is the story of Dungeons of Dredmor that engaging or innovative? What story?

Is Dungeons of Dredmor a breath of fresh air for commercial WRPGs? Yep.
Did you just call Dungeons of Dredmor a Western RPG? THE ROGUE-LIKE COMMUNITY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A WORD WITH YOU!

Terramax said:
This, really. He nails several points. Like the emphasis on stat building as opposed to true gameplay, which is something that you can't even complain about in FPS games.
Amazing what I can come up with at 3am. I thought it was going to come out as an incoherent mess. Glad SOMEONE could make heads or tails of it.
 

DisturbiaWolf13

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EyeReaper said:
Okay, here is something i haven't been able to understand: what is up with no one liking JRPGs? it seems that everywhere i look on the internet, there is someone bashing this genre, including Keiji Inafune himself! Obviously every genre has a bad egg, but it seems to me that everyone thinks JRPGs are a horrible conglomeration of hitler and Mass Effect 3's ending.
in my opinion, i find them extremely underrated, for example, i would much rather play Persona 4 over say, Halo or The Elder Scrolls.So what is the reason behind all this hate? or is it just a bunch of FPS "hardcore" gamers acting as the voice of the community?
Well perhaps if I find one that both allows me to make the character I actually want to make and has anything as interesting or meaningful as The 36 Lessons of Vivec [http://www.imperial-library.info/content/36-lessons-vivec] I'll start considering that game an RPG.

But I'll still feel insulted that you grouped Elder Scrolls with Halo.
 

paislyabmj

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they are usually very linear and involve you controlling characters with voices names back stories and personalities were as for the moment westerners seem to prefer characters in rpgs being a thing they created. personally i am not a big fan of either but can see the merits in both.it all comes down to personal preference i guess.do you want to have a story told to you or do you want to try writing it yourself.
 

TheCrapMaster

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Well hate is sucha strong, tho i admit for a long period i was just hating on JRPGs without having tried them. My fixed opinion was that all of them are about teenage models who weild way to big weapon where the closest thing to a "roughneck" is the one with the long hair who looks emo.

But i decided to give the JRPG a living chance. So i started to play The Last Remnant who a friend had. And well, wasent probably the best choice of game to kill my opinion of JRPGS, seeing it was basicly everything i thought incarnate. Everyone who was something was under the age of 18.So i basicly felt i was leading a army of kids where the adults blindly followed.

The combat was sorta nice, the story "okay", was kinda obvious tho almost at the start of the game. Tho i dont realy hate the gengre anymore after playing it, i more have come to terms that its just not something for me. Something about kids/models running around and killing stuff before they even hit puberti/look like they wouldent be able to swing a twig bugs me. And i know not all JRPGS have child heroes/fashion models, its just how i see them.
 

GamerAddict7796

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SageRuffin said:
I don't hate JRPGs. I just don't like them. Most of them don't interest me for one reason or another, whether it be characters, gameplay mechanics, or the lack of real role-playing (I'll explain if anyone cares to listen).

Occasionally one will drop that grabs my interest. Resonance of Fate is one such game. While on the one hand it has several tropes inherent to JRPGs (characters are fully composed from the offset, for example), it's also so far sideways in terms of other things (gun-based combat? fuggit, I'll roll with it!) that I actually ended enjoying it.
No joke, I would gladly listen to the lack of real roleplaying. Take it away maestro...
 

Kahunaburger

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Jitters Caffeine said:
Kahunaburger said:
Is the story of Dungeons of Dredmor that engaging or innovative? What story?

Is Dungeons of Dredmor a breath of fresh air for commercial WRPGs? Yep.
Did you just call Dungeons of Dredmor a Western RPG? THE ROGUE-LIKE COMMUNITY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A WORD WITH YOU!
It's a complicated taxonomy haha. It can be both a roguelike and an RPG, and I would be very surprised if the commercial success + roguelike mechanics don't spawn WRPG imitators at least with some of the mechanics. At any rate, that's what I have my fingers crossed for :)
 

Kahunaburger

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Terramax said:
Kahunaburger said:
Off the top of my head: Demons' Souls/Dark Souls, Devil Survivor, Ni No Kuni, Recettear, and a variety of ports. I barely play JRPGs, though, so someone who actually is into the genre can probably give you more examples.
Well, I looked up some stuff regarding Devil Survivor - how is it different?

Kinda looks like FF Tactics Advance, but with ANOTHER layer of turn based fighting to think about.


It also appears to star yet more anime 15 year olds. At the end, they've even included a lovely skirt shot for fans to fantasise over.
The gameplay is basically tactical RPG + 1-2 turns of SMT-style turn-based combat per attack. It's very good, but not the reason why it's interesting to me. The thing Devil Survivor does really well is marrying choice & consequence to its schedule-based narrative.

Essentially, everything you do takes time, certain things happen at certain points in the game's timeline, and if (for instance) you're not around to save a character, that character will die and the story and possible future choices will change around that character's death. Or, some pieces of information are only available in certain circumstances or small windows of opportunity, and what information you have changes your options later on. It's a very elegant system that varies the story in non-trivial ways depending on your actions.

The advertising is of course focused on the turn-based combat and the (very animu-looking) characters, because if you put "central time management mechanic that ties choices to non-trivial consequences and reflects the setting, plot and tone" in a trailer, 90%+ of your customer base will be wondering WTF you're talking about.
 

theSteamSupported

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Am I the only one who gets the sense that the Anime aesthetic is despised due to its 'unmanly' nature? Or maybe it is due to its bombastic nature, which in the west could be considered a bit immature.

I don't really know, actually. There might be some other reason why many people around here prefer Batman over Sailor Moon (I don't).

s69-5 said:
theSteamSupported said:
The only RPG I've ever played is Civilization IV. On God Mode.

Role playing has never been my thing. :/
Then you've never played an RPG since Civ 4 is TBS. It's different.
Maybe I should have said that Civ IV is the closest thing to an RPG I've ever played.
 

Kahunaburger

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FelixG said:
Kahunaburger said:
Grey Day for Elcia said:

Because 99% of games calling themselves JRPGs are animated movies that limit player interaction to clicking X on an attack. No player agency in the world, no affect on the story, no player made decisions in dialog, no player influence on the story, no character development beyond exactly what the developer wants--these are all things diametrically opposed to the roleplaying experience.

Final Fantasy: not an RPG.

Planescape Torment: an RPG.
I enjoy the fact that a Bioware writing director is making this case that FFXIII is not an RPG: "You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character..." xD

(FFXIII has mechanics derived from P&P RPGs. It's an RPG. Whether it's a good one is up for debate haha.)
One could argue that Battlefield 3 is as much of an RPG as final fantasy 13 is though, you level up, you gain abilities, and you can switch roles on the fly to better defeat opponents!

THey both even have a crappy story to boot! :p
BF3's core mechanics are shooter mechanics, so most people consider it a shooter with a limited pseudo-RPG progression mechanic. Turn-based combat, OTOH, is a core mechanic that you can trace directly back to P&P.

Although the "is X an RPG?" debate is basically just semantics :p