Why do people hate the army?
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Now, I know this doesn't mean a whole lot, but I've been in an Army JROTC program for the last three years. My 1SGT served in Vietnam, and has given us vivid details about how he was treated, then I compare it to how they're treated today. Overall, soldiers today are treated so much better (in America) than they were in Vietnam. They can still be treated horribly though,and I don't know why. I'm not sure that they understand that the only reason they can speak out like that and voice their opinions are because we have soldiers fighting and dying for us to do so.
The military should really get more respect than they do. So should the police force and firefighters. They are all putting their lives on the line so we can live our lives as peacefully as possible.
The military should really get more respect than they do. So should the police force and firefighters. They are all putting their lives on the line so we can live our lives as peacefully as possible.
I never joke about such matters. (I do actually, but shut up)Zhukov said:
But seriously, this does happen. I know it's hard to believe when you've convinced yourself it's all about dat luverly oil and dem nasty politicians are all selfish and greedy, but soldiers were sent to stabilise Kosovo and Sierra Leone and protect the civilians there. They also protect civilians in Afghanistan and toppled tyannical regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq.
So do a lot of Americans. The "Welfare Queens".Leadfinger said:
The whole goddamned point of having armed forces is securing the integrity of a nation.manic_depressive13 said:
That includes taking down the government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution
Zhukov said:
RedBird said:
I'm going to kindly tell you to shush your opinions when you obviously haven't put a single SECOND of thought into the subject.Grey Day for Elcia said:
The military ends tomorrow. Who will save you if the bridge you are walking on collapses? No Navy divers to help you.
Or what about your ship sinking? No Air Force and no Coast Guard to save your ass this time.
It's easy to complain about the military when you OBVIOUSLY never had to depend on them. I'm glad, it means you never were in a possibly deadly situation. But it's not an excuse to be an oblivious critic because the military is the group of people that make sure you live safely so that you can spit your unfounded opinions.
How many lives have you saved? Because my father probably saved more people that you will ever save, participated in countless humanitarian missions and has done all kinds of Search & Rescue/Medvacs, etc.
It's a bad thing to wish evil on someone, but perhaps you need to dive into some cold water 200 miles away from the coast to freshed up your ideas about the military.
They are also the ones who do the "dirty job" of taking down oppressive governments.PercyBoleyn said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution
Just saying, unless you think you can oppose the government and actually succeed don't talk shit about people you don't know personally. Hate to use buzzwords, but I have to say that post was an ignorant "blanket statement".
Vietnam? You can't hold the military responsible. The US government tried the ingenious plan of letting politicians make war, which lead to the complete clusterfuck that we know as Vietnam.thaluikhain said:
An individual rifle is used for accurate single shot firing. The advent of the assault rifle allows for lighter weapons that will carry more ammo with the added benefit of controlled automatic fire.RazadaMk2 said:
Basically, a weapon is used in a precision fashion during regular combat, but when SHTF you just want to shoot downrange.
It suppresses the enemy, if civilians get hit it's because the enemy is using them as a human shield. "Anyone can get hit" is precisely what happens when you're in a firefight. Don't expect bullets to dodge you just because you're a civilian, be them aimed ot just shot in a general direction.
They are also the people that after getting really pissed kill traitors to the nation (totalitarian governments) free of charge.Liham said:
Firstly, that's totally missing the point of what I was saying.ElPatron said:
Secondly, the US government did a good job of fucking things up, yes, but to a large extent so did the US military.
Westmoreland, for example, might have been a good choice for organising the next Korean War, but was a lousy choice for Vietnam, refusing to acknowledge that the enemy wasn't playing by his rules and certain that his plan was working.
The Australian forces and the US marines were willing and able to fight a proper counter insurgency and guerilla war, but the US army and commanders were not.
Er, suppressing fire has to be aimed more or less at the enemy, doesn't it, which you can't do firing totally blind.ElPatron said:
Having said that, I can imagine various reasons why the soldier might do that, though I don't imagine they'd come up that often. Without seeing teh footage it's hard to say.
Isn't that implicit in "whether we like it or not"? Not all the governments the US military has overthrown have been missed.ElPatron said:
I don't know what you're talking about here.
Personally, I got called a troop-hater for simply not unilaterally supporting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and for not hating all AyRabs, so I tend to assume most of the "hate the troops" crap is overstated.
Yes. I hate the troops. I hate my two cousins, three uncles, and grandfather who have served. I hate like two dozen of my high school friends who are active service or recently out. Yes, I hate a couple of my closest buddies for being Army or Marines.
I HATE THE TROOPS! ALL BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH YOU!
...That's what I normally get.
Personally, I got called a troop-hater for simply not unilaterally supporting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and for not hating all AyRabs, so I tend to assume most of the "hate the troops" crap is overstated.
Yes. I hate the troops. I hate my two cousins, three uncles, and grandfather who have served. I hate like two dozen of my high school friends who are active service or recently out. Yes, I hate a couple of my closest buddies for being Army or Marines.
I HATE THE TROOPS! ALL BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH YOU!
...That's what I normally get.
Yet soldiers go on killing sprees, shoot civilians who were blatantly non-threatening when there isnt even anything to suggest it was necessary (good example would be the video of, I think, Afghanistani journalists being gunned down via manned drone for meeting as a group when they report the truth, or the airstrike of al jazeera HQ. All done by soldiers who would have done none of the sort had they any form of morality/humanity). Most soldiers are there out of need for employment rather than patriotism, why do you think they are paid a ridiculously low wage? The army wants people thick enough to not question orders, if your smarter than that then you are the ones giving the orders and youve probably had your morality broken a long time ago. If patriotism is the reason then thats pretty sick, even if you arent killing yourself you are involved in the fighting and so are equally responsible, being willing to kill for oyur country doesnt make you a patriot it makes you a murderer with a flag. We call out those who fight for their religion or fight for countries who arent our friends, what truly differentiates them from our soldiers? Delivering death is not an act of patriotism, we do not accept that a man can kill another in any other walk of life so why do we here? I understand what you are trying to say but I still dont like the army and your reasons dont apply to my position.Iron Criterion said:
It is not as complex as people often make it out to be.
Army is created in order to fight with force, agiasnt outside offence or attack outside source (for inside we got other professions, such as police, swat, you name it, altrough there are cases where army can interfere).
Being mainly fighting oriented they attract people who are mainly fighting oriented. Nature made it so those guys are mostly complete and utter idiots. This is partly because smart people realize that a good fight is the one you avoided. But we dont got so many of them.
Therefore, if army mainly have idiots in it, and people hate idiots, therefore army is hated by the people.
Secondly, armys main objective is to kill. Most people hate killing, therefore they hate army. Most people that love killing are either in army or in jail.
Thirdly, a concept of patriotizm. military is often praised for beign patriotic. smart people know that patritism is bad. therefore smart people hate the army.
Army, as a concept, in itself is not bad. Army, as a reality - is.
Personally, i dont think army is all bad or all good. i think there are both sides in this situation.
Army is created in order to fight with force, agiasnt outside offence or attack outside source (for inside we got other professions, such as police, swat, you name it, altrough there are cases where army can interfere).
Being mainly fighting oriented they attract people who are mainly fighting oriented. Nature made it so those guys are mostly complete and utter idiots. This is partly because smart people realize that a good fight is the one you avoided. But we dont got so many of them.
Therefore, if army mainly have idiots in it, and people hate idiots, therefore army is hated by the people.
Secondly, armys main objective is to kill. Most people hate killing, therefore they hate army. Most people that love killing are either in army or in jail.
Thirdly, a concept of patriotizm. military is often praised for beign patriotic. smart people know that patritism is bad. therefore smart people hate the army.
Army, as a concept, in itself is not bad. Army, as a reality - is.
Personally, i dont think army is all bad or all good. i think there are both sides in this situation.
Actually, that's pretty standard procedure. He no doubt wasn't firing totally "blind", like you seem to think. It's much more likely that he knew the position of the enemy combatants, either through previous looks or by hearing their weapons fire, and was spraying some ammo over his cover to make them duck, to give him time to get up and take an aimed shot.thaluikhain said:
I think it's fine for you to think it's wrong for the US to spend that much money, but I do not think it's right for you to think that the people who get into the military are stupid. You don't know them or why they do it, therefore you have no room to make judgement.Anoni Mus said:
While I can't approve of military coups in general, the Portuguese military acted in a righteous fashion in taking down the authoritarian government in Portugal (though they had previously kept the regime in power). In any event, the missions that you are talking about are mainly humanitarian missions, which only account for a tiny percentage of the money actually spent on militaries globally. If you're just interested in these kind of missions, why not cut out the huge waste of money and slaughter of people in the third world and just have coast guards and rescue forces? To bring up the Japanese example again, the Japanese coast guard is much more responsive and effective than the bloated, politicized Japanese Defense Force.ElPatron said:
When I first saw the thread title, I thought "Are you crazy?" Then it occurred to me that you might not live in or next to America. Anyone caught badmouthing a soldier/military serviceman in Canada or America (especially America) would not see daylight the next day.
Personally I don't like it because it drains funds that could be used for social stability in a country.
Other then that it's way too often used to force western ideals onto normal civilizations that don't want them. Even if they need them, but invading and bombing them generally isn't that way to go about that.
Though I do think basic training for a few months would do wonders for some people.
Other then that it's way too often used to force western ideals onto normal civilizations that don't want them. Even if they need them, but invading and bombing them generally isn't that way to go about that.
Though I do think basic training for a few months would do wonders for some people.
It's more complicated then love / hate them. I wish they would just get the hell out of that country because no matter what a good soldier does it will all be outdone by some idiot bad soldier going on a rampage or some idiot burning a muslim book that continously fuels their hatred and creates way more terrorists then they can ever hope to gun down. The more they try to stomp out terrorism the more terrorists they create. If I lived in a third world country and an american soldier killed a family member either by accident or a rampage I myself would probably say enough is enough myself.
It's a war that can't be won, and I'm tired of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer from how badly our economy has been fucked over by this.
It's a war that can't be won, and I'm tired of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer from how badly our economy has been fucked over by this.
Because people don't understand what an Army is supposed to do. That's why.
Not even those who join it in the first place.
I mean, why did the OP join anyways? It doesn't matter b/c once you become conditioned to follow orders you will have to submit your individuality to the general groupthink of the whole which, even if not explicitly a bad thing, in turn, is completely determined by the opinions and wills of those most in charge, and those in charge submit their world view to either their own personal interest or that of politicians (the most common scenario in the west).
And, in the end, the soldier ends up getting exploited just like everyone else, except than in his/her case it lends to him commiting/watching all kinds of atrocities and/or collecting all kinds of mental baggage in the carrying out the wishes of those who issue the orders but suffer none of the consequences. But at least they do give him a nice stamp of patriot, huh?
To assume that an army is a defacto positive body of action is rather short sighted, I think; given that it is subject to the wills of politicians (who then in turn may further be subject to the wills of yet more third parties) at the time.
In the end it is the soldier that has to solely put up with all the traumatic shit of being involved in war. And let's not even mention the civilian populations getting involved with those poor people...
The most one can say about an army, any army, is that it is a tool made of numerous small components that have to perform as if they were a single one. Neither good nor bad, and solely dependant on who wields it (orders it) to do something--be it good, bad, or somewhere in between.
Not even those who join it in the first place.
I mean, why did the OP join anyways? It doesn't matter b/c once you become conditioned to follow orders you will have to submit your individuality to the general groupthink of the whole which, even if not explicitly a bad thing, in turn, is completely determined by the opinions and wills of those most in charge, and those in charge submit their world view to either their own personal interest or that of politicians (the most common scenario in the west).
And, in the end, the soldier ends up getting exploited just like everyone else, except than in his/her case it lends to him commiting/watching all kinds of atrocities and/or collecting all kinds of mental baggage in the carrying out the wishes of those who issue the orders but suffer none of the consequences. But at least they do give him a nice stamp of patriot, huh?
To assume that an army is a defacto positive body of action is rather short sighted, I think; given that it is subject to the wills of politicians (who then in turn may further be subject to the wills of yet more third parties) at the time.
In the end it is the soldier that has to solely put up with all the traumatic shit of being involved in war. And let's not even mention the civilian populations getting involved with those poor people...
The most one can say about an army, any army, is that it is a tool made of numerous small components that have to perform as if they were a single one. Neither good nor bad, and solely dependant on who wields it (orders it) to do something--be it good, bad, or somewhere in between.
While i'm not an expert at this stuff, think it's mainly due to the fact that in age where people are starting to get along more, weather that be people of different creeds, races, religions, or what have you, having an army and conflict reminds people that they is still fighting and a need for an army. It also reminds that conflict between humans is inevitable, and they will always be conflict of some kind.
I think it could also be that patriotism is seen as pointless nowadays, because so many countries rely on each other. I mean, if you want to support your country and love it, then fair enough, it's just hard too when other countries are needed to stop it from going bankrupted.
Alternatively, it could just be that people criticise the army as it costs governments a lot of money to maintain, should it gives them something to complain about when the economy is bad.
Or the guy in your case could be drunk. I'm not assuming that because you're Irish, it's just that that guy sounds like the kind of old boose hound who spends his whole night drinking cheap beer and shouting the occasional racist remark. And probably had a beard. Just the image that went though my head.
I think it could also be that patriotism is seen as pointless nowadays, because so many countries rely on each other. I mean, if you want to support your country and love it, then fair enough, it's just hard too when other countries are needed to stop it from going bankrupted.
Alternatively, it could just be that people criticise the army as it costs governments a lot of money to maintain, should it gives them something to complain about when the economy is bad.
Or the guy in your case could be drunk. I'm not assuming that because you're Irish, it's just that that guy sounds like the kind of old boose hound who spends his whole night drinking cheap beer and shouting the occasional racist remark. And probably had a beard. Just the image that went though my head.