Why do people hate the army?

[The_Critic]

To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace.

-George Washington

A nation without a military is a nation without defense. If we didn't have an army in the 1940's we would all be speaking German right now. If we don't have an army today we would all be speaking Chinese or Korean right now. So I don't understand people who hate the military so much as to say it's pointless and useless or a tax sink.

I find it funny that usually the people that are against military or our (speaking as a US citizen here) are usually the people also protest women's rights, environmentalist minded,etc. And yes those things are important, I just wish they would realize that if we didn't have a military nations like north Korea and China or Islamic extremists that hate America would quickly attack or invade us.

Then those things those people stand for, would be non existent. Lets face it, Korea, China, Islamic Extremists, there not know for their women's rights.

...

People aren't saying you shouldn't have a military, I fail to see how you came to that conclusion. People say that you don't need to spend $700,000,000,000 per year on it while your debt is at $15,700,000,000,000 and rising.

Of coarse you know the only reason we aren't invaded is cause our military is the most advanced in the world, cut funding and we won't causing a risk to our national security.

You can easily defend you borders without spending, AGAIN, $700,000,000,000 per year.

Your navy almost has as many planes as the entire russian air force. You cannot say that is not excessive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Your military spending is greater than the combined spending of #2-#14 of the worlds largest militaries. That's right, if you combined 14 ENTIRE COUNTRIES military budget you still wouldn't match the USA, that includes China, the UK, Russia, France etc

You spend just under 50% of the total WORLD military expenditure on your military.

To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace.

-George Washington

 

[Chemical Alia]

I was in active duty both before and after 9/11, and I feel that a lot of people's opinions of the military are influenced by current trends, but also by a lot of misconceptions and assumptions. Especially when they don't know any military people, themselves.

I look up to people like you.

Just Saying.

And I look up to people like you!

I was in active duty both before and after 9/11, and I feel that a lot of people's opinions of the military are influenced by current trends, but also by a lot of misconceptions and assumptions. Especially when they don't know any military people, themselves.

I think this guy is onto something.

Personally I am against war when it can be avoided. Let's take either of the two world wars as an example here. One nation wanting to increase their financial standing expanded their territory and their wealth on the cost of nations they were able to defeat. This situation was not misinterpreted nor do I think it could have been solved without going to war. Then there's the war in Iraq which probably was necessary too, but the reasons for going to war were sketchy at best. There's also news about all the sick things some soldiers do in order to maintain the mindset they need to keep fighting. I probably shouldn't mention specifics in order to keep this civil. However to get on with my point this is what people see. They see the group of soldiers mistreating captives. They see a war they didn't want.

Soldiers don't go to war. Soldiers are sent to war. People seem to think that if we didn't have soldiers we wouldn't have wars. I am a strong opponent of war and I am a pacifist, but I still respect soldiers for the duty they are doing.

Well put, and thanks! I love it when other people say what I'm thinking better than I could, myself.

 

[greatcheezer2021]

we hate the army in modern times, because we have lost our ways of gentleman's warfare.

before back then, you'd die all just the same but you knew it would be your death, serving on the battleground.

now its even more proficient at killing in mass numbers. the bodies are growing as are profits for bullets. but in the end, it doesnt even matter.

 

[The Ubermensch]

The US Marines have a saying, "Gung ho". It originates from china and means work togeather. What has annoyed me about this is the saying "He's very gung ho" or "Hey don't go all gung ho on us". Just think about that for a second "He's very 'Work Togeahter'" or "Hey, Don't go all 'Work Togeather' on us". Thats because in media it means 'enthusiastic'. There is a discrepancy between what the fiction of the media and the reality. Fiction = Starship Troopers, Reality = Full Metal Jacket... kinda. (I'm not a US marine and we aren't in the middle of the 'nam war [or are we?] so I wouldn't know but Gomer Pyle probably wouldn't have gotten past initial assesment, real DIs aren't nearly as awesome as Gunnery Sargent Heartman, and I like to think we avoid senselessly gunning down civilians from helicopters)

The reason I joined was actually due to my association with Military, particularly US military. I have no idea how but I managed to get into a few online clans that were predominantly US Navy. The rest of the world has this steriotype of yanks, and to be honest its true for the most part, but those clans were different. You can tell someone is lying about being in the military by the way they talk. Military are different, and in my opinion, better than Civilians.

The majority of Civilians mean well, but when it comes down to it they tend to be introvered in there thinking. The main reason behind Basic is to break that introverson, you're living for something greater than your self. Its is both the strenght and weakness of capitolism that it plays off the selfishness of man, where as the military exists as a socialist meritocracy within a capitolist society.

I think thats the crux of the issue, The Military are a completely different society within civilian society. That and I REALLY LIKE JUMPING OUT OF AIRCRAFT WITH WEAPONS STRAPPED TO MY CHEST Career enlisted are adreniline junkies.

 

[Terramax]

It's ridiculous when people talk about 'for queen and country'. No-one joins the military to 'protect' their country. Not in the UK anyway. What I find pathetic is when people give me this 'they protect our country, they sacrifice themselves for us'. That's a load of tosh and everyone knows it.

Most people who join the military in England do it for personal gains (mainly money). I do, however, disagree with the mercenaries comparison. I have far more respect for mercenaries. At least they openly choose what they want to fight for. They won't hide behind a flag or politician. I'm under no illusion of what kind of work they do, but I mercenaries have this stereotype about them also.

Military personnel also tend to be very horrible in real life. This is especially the case for marines. I know a few friends who have been, or are in the British military, and it's disgraceful how they even treat each other. Again, especially the marines.

My friend joined the marines because he genuinely wanted to make a difference. He studied the marines since he was about 11, and entered at 18. He left not long after because everyone else in his squad were, in the nicest possible way of describing, a bunch of bullies. Violent, boarderline schizos, some of which have already assaulted, even sexually assaulted, prior and during their time in the marines. And these people represent our country abroad?

Something else that bugs me is what we pay them to do. A friend in the army has spent the last 12 months being paid to ski around the world. Skiing! With my tax money!

Do I have a problem with the ideas of armies as a whole? No, every country needs them. But soldiers are like politicians. We will always need them. But we needs ones with the public's interest at heart. And in both cases, they don't. They only care about themselves.

I definitely disagree with this Starship Troopers (movie) ideology about you only having respect, or some sort of moral high ground, if you've been in the military. This nonsensical, arbitrary patriotic bull.

I also find it rather bizarre so many have the utmost respect for soldiers, but not for police officers. What's up with that? I'm not saying the police force are perfect, but people will slag them off but will toot the above for traveling abroad and 'supposedly' maintaining the peace? Say, what?

 

[Nikolaz72]

Listen here. Your government doesn't like you. In fact, chances are your government is comprised of a bunch of fucking assholes. When you join the military, you are agreeing to take orders from a bunch of assholes. You are expressing willingness to go to another country and kill people on behalf of this group of assholes, simply because you were told to. I don't find that admirable. I find it extremely disturbing that many people believe those in military positions deserve extra respect by virtue of having a diminished capacity to empathise and think for themselves.

I really don't get why people miss that part. They willing gave up their autonomy to run off to do the bidding of the government. And people somehow try to separate the government from them. Well they agreed to follow their orders, so how can they really not accept blame as well? If I tell some crazy guy on the street "Oh I'll do whatever you want" people wouldn't think twice about blaming me as much as him, if not more, if I followed his orders.

I really dont think the goverment dislikes people. I think they are either rather indifferent about people, or actually. 'like' people. People are the reason they have the position they do, get the salary they have. And that the country they rule keeps working.

Ultimately the goverment is put in place by the people, so if you bend the whole militarything about 90degrees the soldiers are 'technically' commanded by the people representatives.

I dont like Nationalism or Patriotism, as im neither a nationalist nor a patriot. However I do not think every goverment in the world deserves bashing, sort of 'guilty until proven innocent'

 

[Elamdri]

Im only a reservist, so i can't speak for frontline soldiers.

I nearly got in a fistfight tonight with someone who cheapened what the Irish army does, and belittled their contribution to UN peace keeping mission by labeling them mercenaries.

They broadened their vague assertions to all western armies and then had the gall to lecture me on patriotism, whilst at the same time belittling what little bit i have contributed when they have done nothing. This wasn't someone trolling me for fun, but a genuine arsehole who hates the army but is more manly than them..... how is christ's name do you deal/educate a person like that and not willingly murder them?

He called me a cheerleader, and you know what... fine.... I'll happily laud to everyone the contributions the defence forces make, ill readily admit im only a reservist sandbag scumbag.... A civilian can only contribute so much, but what i can do, i bloody well do. Why should i be ashamed of that, and why should i be ashamed of the Irish army? Why should anyone be ashamed of their army?

At the end of the day, war is an ugly thing. I remember back when the world was a relatively peaceful place. I mean, you had wars and conflicts, but for the most part, the first world nations were not terribly involved. In this modern age of endless war, things are different. When I was a kid, the military was a good way to get your school paid for and to get a decent pension. Nowadays, it's a good way to get shot.

Everyone should hate war. If you don't hate war, something is wrong with you. Hating armies, well that's somewhat a matter of perspective. I am happy that my country's army defends me. I would be foolish if I believed otherwise. But I hate the necessity of that function. I hate that my army has to exist in the first place. And I hate that they kill people in the name of my safety.

Hermann Goering famously said during the Nuremberg Trials "Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

 

[Stu35]

Well gee, do tell me who they're killing and being killed by that's ready to come over to America and stop me from talking.

Right now? Angry militant Muslims who 11(ish) years ago flew a couple of planes into a densely populated civilian area known as New York city. Knocking off a couple of towers as they did it.

Their ultimate goal, as they've established it, is to curtail the current American way of life (which they see as being wrong) in order to impose their own - which includes restricting Freedom of Speech.

Currently, these people are being trained in Pakistan in order to fight an Insurgent war in Afghanistan, with the goal of ensuring that Afghanistan remains under a strict form of Islamic law, and more importantly, returns to being a safe location with a government (or lack therof) which will not support anti-terrorist activities. They want to do this because Pakistan is currently not safe enough for them, as the Pakistani government is willing to (mostly) look the other way when America puts Hellfire missiles through known terrorists bedroom windows.

They need Afghanistan, with Afghanistan, they can begin to once again look to take the fight to the United States.

Now, you can fight them in New York city, or you can fight them in Afghanistan, 6,000 miles away from New York City. Your call really.


Personally, being British, I remain a little more worried by the direct threat Argentina poses to my country, as well as the residual threat of Dissident Republicans in Northern Ireland. However, being a human being - I want to see the people of Afghanistan (not to mention everyone else in the world) with the same freedoms that I have enjoyed in my life.

So, there's your two arguments for the War in Afghanistan - national security (always a 'meh' argument for me), and simple humanitarianism (American women get to go to University, why shouldn't Afghan women?).

I remember back when the world was a relatively peaceful place. I mean, you had wars and conflicts, but for the most part, the first world nations were not terribly involved. In this modern age of endless war, things are different. When I was a kid, the military was a good way to get your school paid for and to get a decent pension. Nowadays, it's a good way to get shot.

I think you remember when western involvement in conflict was less newsworthy.

My dad was in the Army, as I am now, and IIRC the only year a British soldier has not been killed on active service since records began is 1968. Can't speak for America, but Britain has always been at war.

 

[A Raging Emo]

I think many nations have a completely overinflated military budget, and they would be better served cutting down on that then on other things.

I'm not sure if you're aware or not, and there is no malicious intent in this post (as there seem to be in a lot of "Correction!" posts on these forums), but the Military Budgets aren't just for building bombs and bullets and guns and tanks. I'd say at least a third of that goes to pay the salaries of Soldiers. Admittedly, I'm speaking for the British Armed Forces here, and I do agree that the United States does spend far, far too much on it, but maybe it's for the same reason, as there are many more people in the US Armed Forces than the British Armed Forces.

Another thing. Many people think that "Anti Soldier" and "Anti War" are the same thing, when they aren't. People hate the Army, people hate the Soldiers. What we should hate is the fighting. It's been said before, and I'll say it again; the best soldiers are Anti War. I think instead of letting people scare themselves, the Army (or at least, our governments) should try to educate the general population as to what we actually do, both overseas and at home, without turning it into propaganda.

It's not worth just saying "Army! FUCK YEAH!", we should actually teach people what we do, why we do it and our methods of doing it all.

 

[Davroth]

I think many nations have a completely overinflated military budget, and they would be better served cutting down on that then on other things.

I'm not sure if you're aware or not, and there is no malicious intent in this post (as there seem to be in a lot of "Correction!" posts on these forums), but the Military Budgets aren't just for building bombs and bullets and guns and tanks. I'd say at least a third of that goes to pay the salaries of Soldiers. Admittedly, I'm speaking for the British Armed Forces here, and I do agree that the United States does spend far, far too much on it, but maybe it's for the same reason, as there are many more people in the US Armed Forces than the British Armed Forces.

Another thing. Many people think that "Anti Soldier" and "Anti War" are the same thing, when they aren't. People hate the Army, people hate the Soldiers. What we should hate is the fighting. It's been said before, and I'll say it again; the best soldiers are Anti War. I think instead of letting people scare themselves, the Army (or at least, our governments) should try to educate the general population as to what we actually do, both overseas and at home, without turning it into propaganda.

It's not worth just saying "Army! FUCK YEAH!", we should actually teach people what we do, why we do it and our methods of doing it all.

Let me pose this question then. Why do we need soldiers to fill in humanitarian causes? You could have specialized people for that, and you wouldn't have to train them to handle weapons to do their job. And I only looked into the numbers for the US, but their amount of standing troops makes only sense if you lead an attack war. You could go with a fractions if it was just about protecting the homeland.

And to be honest, I find it worrying how the US soldiers in Iraq and Iran literally snapped, and acted in the inhumane ways possible. And there are lots of examples of that. It's what happens when you put a human in that kind of situation or what can happen.

Something about that is wrong, and I don't think we can blame this on individuals. It happened to many times by now.

I wouldn't go as far as say that all soldiers of the world are questionable. But seriously, I have more then enough reasons to believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the US Army.

 

[zefiris]

What usually happens is the other way round: Someone dares not to support soldiers 10000% (and might even criticize the military, gasp!), and is immediately dogpiled by aggressive wannabe-patriots, most of which never served in an actual war.

The army version of console fanboys, if you will.


A LOT of people risk their lives. *I* risk my life. I don't get any thanks or respect for it, nor do I demand it. Why are soldiers special there?

Spoiler: They aren't. A few countries simply have a rather weird fetish for their army. I for one am glad to live in a country where that doesn't exist. The army is considered an important part, but soldiers are not worshipped, and we actually are allowed to *gasp* criticize the army when they do bad things without getting dogpiled by wingnuts.


Oh, and PS: I probably support soldiers much, much more than most of you wannabe patriots. Who among you has actively lobbied to help soldiers, say, get properly treated by an army after the war? I bet you didn't. You just shout army support when it's easy.

 

[Bertylicious]

We've employed a few ex-servicemen. They're all a bit odd, but then they're trained killers so I guess that's to be expected.

 

[Tanner The Monotone]

I can't speak for everyone and I can't say I "hate" the army, but this is my gripe.

The DoD takes up $700 Billion in spending, which is about 20% of our total budget (both 2011 & 2012 estimate). This is unacceptable during a recession like ours, especially with the scaling back of the war in Afghanistan and our exiting out of Iraq. Not, only that, but It bothers me even more that no one seems to consider a budget reducing as a viable strategy, despite our having more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined or our spending money on pointless upgrades to air superiority fighters like the F-22 or our having a bunch of B-52s that a pretty useless considering they're both outdated and not strategically viable.

Also, the fact that the Military is the enforcer of some our more dickish policies.

Other than those things, I'm fine with our military. I don't view every soldier as a hero, but as a government employee with a sometime dangerous job. Still, to paraphrase Bill Maher "I like having a military that scares the shit out of other countries, I just wish that it didn't come with the whole military-industrial complex."

Yeah I agree.

Right now, America does not need to be spending that much money on the military. Use that money to climb out of the recession and build the economy again, THEN start making laser guns (please?)

My solution? Take away the A/C from the air-force. Make them sweat a little.

 

[Bvenged]

When told by people that the military is a waste of time, patriotism, etc. You should just agree - I mean, it's not like Somali pirates hurt innocent people or anything? It's not like rouge states are a threat? It's not like terrorism is a thing and we're (as independent nations united under one front) opposed to the ideologies of madmen wanting to hurt innocents in our own streets?

Each nations' military allows their citizens to live life without much fear of being shot in the face or blown up by a zealot. If you think the military should disarm and disperse, why don't you go and spend a few months unarmed in a region of Taliban influence in the Helmand province of Afghanistan first? I'm sure it would be a blast *ahem* for someone who is simply a westerner.

 

[ThatGuy]

I was in active duty both before and after 9/11, and I feel that a lot of people's opinions of the military are influenced by current trends, but also by a lot of misconceptions and assumptions. Especially when they don't know any military people, themselves.

It might be more accurate to say "current wars" instead of "current trends." Wars are contentious by nature and thrust the military into the spotlight.

A government seems nebulous and is hard for people to relate to, but a military has a very public face. It's out there in the field actually doing stuff. I think that's why people project their emotions re: war onto the military.

 

[thiosk]

I think the US military, and the fact that it can pretty well wreck almost any pair of countries in the world simultaneously, is awesome. We probably wouldn't be able to hack both russia and china at the same time, nukes and all, but Poland and Portugal? Shits bout to get dicey. fuck the letter p

This being said, I am in favor of withdrawing all us troops from every country and let the rest of the world police itself. Strange mix of thinking we got here in 'merica.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Because peace and love man. If we all could just like, get along, we wouldn't need an army dude.

I'll respect the people who are willing to risk their lives to protect their country, and hate politicians for the wars.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel. I understand why we need an army, but I don't trust politicians...

 

[Idocreating]

It seems if you respect the army you're a patriot, and patriotism is bad because it means you hate everyone that isn't from your country. I've had a few 'debates' with escapist members about 'patriotism' every time I say I respect soldiers people rag on me and tell me that I'm a terrible person that should die in a hole.

Respecting soldiers for what they do makes you a Patriot.

Respecting politicians and military leaders for sending said soldiers into pointless conflicts makes you a Moron.

(Not implying anything, just my two cents)

 

[Sidiron]

It's very intriguing and quite telling that we always seem to lose the lessons of the past, mainly because we are ignorant and also because it is in the 'powers that be' interest that we remain stupid.
The miltary, especially in the western world, is not a defensive militia, which people seem to want to paint it as. The US is the country with no foreign bases on it's soil and yet has managed to place it's own camps in nearly every major country of the world, a subject which is very contentious in it's own right but I shall only reference it here.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" -Oscar Wilde
I could carry on quoting greater minds than mine quite happily but will explain my point instead. Patriotism is not a valid reason to give your military carte-blanche to do what it likes, neither is the role of a soldier, the passive following of orders if you wish to debate this I shall refer you to the verdict of the Nuremburg trials held after the atrocities committed during World War 2 which stated that 'I was just following orders' does not absolve you of responsibility for the results of the orders you follow.

The politicians and generals are the ones that have created these conflicts and are endangering the lives of nations, which is the reason that everyone is so damn scared of being attacked, which in turn is the reason why the military needs to go out and "enforce" peace in the world. That my friends is called circular logic, but most people suffer this selective amnesia and idiocy becuase it is encouraged via media and upbringing.

The US has always rallied against some foe, or other, since World War 1 for the sole reason of keeping the "military-industrial complex" running, whether it was the Huns/Krauts (Germans) and the Japanese, then it was the Red Devil ('Communist' Russia) and then the Red Chinese before moving onto various Arabic or African countries and then Al Qaeda, whilst keeping the Chinese threat on the back burner for idiots like Romney to wheel out for an extra few votes.

Now the individual soldiers who want to go out and try and help keep the peace, I will always respect and commend on their hard work but I will also disregard this whole notion that they are out there fighting for my freedoms, as just as many armies have been used to suppress freedoms as enable them, the lovely American police force, which is nothing less than a well funded militia nowadays has spent most of this year, "enforcing" the law on it's own citizens using all kinds of damaging weapons and tactics. This is a door that swings freely both ways.