Or when they do change the mechanics it's in an incomprehensible or unintuitive way (for the sake of change, as opposed to improving a good thing).Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon said:
Why do people pick on JRPGs?
- Thread starter Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon
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One reason I think is the fact they always feel the same. The story lines and moods of jrpgs seem almost fully or partially grabbed from another rpg. Most people nowadays are used to strange mixes of games that try to push the envelope. Im not saying jrpgs don't do this but sooo many of seem to follow this trend that good ones are buried in the crap of other jrpgs.
Another thing is that only a few jrps run in "real time" most are turn based manifests it doesnt feel natural that way I can understand popping up a menu in some battles to use items when needed but It would be nice if more jrpgs were not turn based.
For example in an encounter be set in a type of arena where you can freely move around to flank your opponents or doge there attacks they keys are mapped to abilities you set so there is little menu operation and each character while they can move have a cool down after there attack and some have negative and positive effects on the user. Finlay if need be you can put your more complex or less used moves and items in a quick pause menu if need be.I bet a good jrpg has used this system but me as a general gamer may not know about it unless I was told from someone who looks actively for these games.
To sum it up If it felt more natural I think there wouldn't be so much bashing.
Another thing is that only a few jrps run in "real time" most are turn based manifests it doesnt feel natural that way I can understand popping up a menu in some battles to use items when needed but It would be nice if more jrpgs were not turn based.
For example in an encounter be set in a type of arena where you can freely move around to flank your opponents or doge there attacks they keys are mapped to abilities you set so there is little menu operation and each character while they can move have a cool down after there attack and some have negative and positive effects on the user. Finlay if need be you can put your more complex or less used moves and items in a quick pause menu if need be.I bet a good jrpg has used this system but me as a general gamer may not know about it unless I was told from someone who looks actively for these games.
To sum it up If it felt more natural I think there wouldn't be so much bashing.
Because it's Japanese?
Honestly I have no hatred towards Jrpgs more than any other genre (in fact some of my favorite games fall under that category) but for fans of Jrpgs, things have gotten stale recently. Save for creative games like Lost Odyssey and the Persona series, there hasn't been much of anything new and exciting recently.
As for people who don't like Jrpgs, they pick on them because it's easy to I suppose
Honestly I have no hatred towards Jrpgs more than any other genre (in fact some of my favorite games fall under that category) but for fans of Jrpgs, things have gotten stale recently. Save for creative games like Lost Odyssey and the Persona series, there hasn't been much of anything new and exciting recently.
As for people who don't like Jrpgs, they pick on them because it's easy to I suppose
Well for one they're all clearly idiots because they think all RPGs from Japan are the same. Secondly, ZP. Thirdly, its just an easy genera to pick on because it is the minority as compared to shooters and such. Fourthly, some people have a bad experience and never ever let it go and instead rail away forever. Lastly, It's mostly a matter of perception and apparently there is more negative perception then positive perception.
People have different tastes in games. Why is that so fucking hard to understand?
Why is it, that every time someone mentions a dislike of JRPGs, the JRPG fans start throwing around the "you just don't understand"-excuse?
"You dislike them because they're popular."
"You dislike them because they're japanese."
"You dislike them because Yahtzee hates them."
"You dislike them because you don't understand them."
"You dislike them because you're an idiot."
The thought of people disliking JRPGs because they don't appeal to their taste in games never crossed any of your minds?
And the main reason people "pick" on JRPGs is because of the whiny fans that cry incessantly about how all the mean people hate their favorite games.
People will always have different opinions - get the fuck over it.
If you like a game, why should you care if I don't?
As much as you are allowed to say how much you love JRPGs, the people who don't like them are allowed to say how much they hate them. It's that simple, and if you find that fact offensive, the internet isn't the right place for you.
People should also be allowed to voice their opinions about certain things without being called "idiots" or "losers" *eyes thread*
Why is it, that every time someone mentions a dislike of JRPGs, the JRPG fans start throwing around the "you just don't understand"-excuse?
"You dislike them because they're popular."
"You dislike them because they're japanese."
"You dislike them because Yahtzee hates them."
"You dislike them because you don't understand them."
"You dislike them because you're an idiot."
The thought of people disliking JRPGs because they don't appeal to their taste in games never crossed any of your minds?
And the main reason people "pick" on JRPGs is because of the whiny fans that cry incessantly about how all the mean people hate their favorite games.
People will always have different opinions - get the fuck over it.
If you like a game, why should you care if I don't?
As much as you are allowed to say how much you love JRPGs, the people who don't like them are allowed to say how much they hate them. It's that simple, and if you find that fact offensive, the internet isn't the right place for you.
People should also be allowed to voice their opinions about certain things without being called "idiots" or "losers" *eyes thread*
Mostly because their not testosterone filled games like halo and COD. I've seen people hate on normal RPGs like Fable because it isn't a shooter.
Anyway, I don't think people hate JRPGs as much as you think. Pokemon is a JRPG and it sells quite well.
I myself enjoy JRPGs. I liked FF13 because it was a break from western RPGs who give you tons of freedom but lack story. It was nice for a change to just play and get told a great story.
Anyway, I don't think people hate JRPGs as much as you think. Pokemon is a JRPG and it sells quite well.
I myself enjoy JRPGs. I liked FF13 because it was a break from western RPGs who give you tons of freedom but lack story. It was nice for a change to just play and get told a great story.
3. you'd be surprisedFallen-Angel Risen-Demon said:
OT: i've never finished a final fantasy game due to the excessive amount of grind required to defeat certain bosses, but i did like what i saw of these games, i loved both Kingdom Hearts games and realized that the reason Lost Odyssey is on four discs is because it's addicted to story tangents. i haven't played FF XIII yet and i don't think i will, just isn't my cup a tea any more. Actually OT, i think that people make fun of RPGs because of stereotypes that they've heard, and while some are true these people don't realize that the true ones are also part of the JRPG experience.
Well, I don't think the majority get pissy if someone legitimately doesn't like a game that is a JRPG due to personal taste ie. "I didn't like this because it had turn-based combat", or at least I hope they don't because that would be dumb, it's perfectly understandable to not like turn-based combat. The problem seems to arise when someone with limited experience of the genre says they all suck and gives a list of reasons why they all suck despite having very little experience with that genre. It's not really a simple difference of opinion then, it's a stereotype born of ignorance that's clearly false to the people who have actually played a lot of JRPGs. The genre is simply too diverse to dislike it for any listed reason as the genre really doesn't contain any particular thing in EVERY example of that genre. For every "reason" someone lists for not liking JRPGs I can list a JRPG that doesn't contain that reason. Hence all the yelling and screaming.Azaradel said:
With that in mind, I can understand how people get pissed about a lot of the opinions people post about JRPGs in general, they're, well, wrong. It isn't all angsty teenagers, the goal isn't always to save the world, that's not an opinion it's a fact. Now do a lot of JRPGs contain that? Of course! It's a genre, works in a genre tend to be similar, that goes for every genre not just JRPGs. So, in a way both sides are right, and both sides are wrong. Yes, if people actually played a lot of JRPGs pretty much every person in existence could find one they like, and yes it's dumb to act like an authority on something you have very little experience or knowledge of(most of us hated it when Roger Ebert did it right?). At the same time however, stereotypes exist for a reason. Sure they suck, and it would be better to have knowledge of everything but there's simply not enough time in the day to do it. As the quoted post shows, half of the arguments against JRPG haters in this thread are stereotypes, mostly because there's not enough time in the day to address every reason why someone might not like a JRPG. Just the same, there isn't enough time in the day to try every JRPG out there, and most people can't be bothered if they don't like the basic concepts that are likely to appear in a given genre, especially if they appeared in all the ones they tried whether it be turn-based combat or angsty teenagers. It makes little sense to try something likely to contain stuff you don't like if you could just go try something from a genre that is more likely to contain things you do like. Stereotypes are a necessary time and money saving evil that everyone uses, and will continue to use until we're immortal and robots do all the work so we can try everything that ever existed.
TLDR:
Obnoxious JRPG Haters: Quit acting like an authority on something you're ignorant of.
Obnoxious JRPG Lovers: Realize that everyone stereotypes, yes that means YOU person reading this post, and while it's fine to try and dispel these stereotypes it's not okay to say everyone who dislikes JRPGs is a moron or xenophobic or whatever crap you're coming up with in this thread. Everyone's ignorant in their own way, for some people it's a video game genre, I can think of worse things.
People on either side of the fence who aren't being jackasses: Internet high five!
Because no one plays Dragon Quest in the west.
In all seriousness, lots of JRPGs follow a very similar structure. Like lots of genres. Lots of them are stuffed to the brim with plot exposition that the player feels that they have no control over. I feel like games such as Final Fantasy don't need me. That they are too cool for me and would rather just jabber on about it's supposedly complex artsy plot, making no effort to make any characters likable or think about proper pacing and art design.
But that's just how I would describe Final Fantasy.
Lots of people hate Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy is popular. Therefore it is a target. Like any popular game.
But not all JRPGs are Final Fantasy. Sure, some people hate JRPGs by design, and that's understandable. But that's a matter of opinion.
In all seriousness, lots of JRPGs follow a very similar structure. Like lots of genres. Lots of them are stuffed to the brim with plot exposition that the player feels that they have no control over. I feel like games such as Final Fantasy don't need me. That they are too cool for me and would rather just jabber on about it's supposedly complex artsy plot, making no effort to make any characters likable or think about proper pacing and art design.
But that's just how I would describe Final Fantasy.
Lots of people hate Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy is popular. Therefore it is a target. Like any popular game.
But not all JRPGs are Final Fantasy. Sure, some people hate JRPGs by design, and that's understandable. But that's a matter of opinion.
Obviously, I like JRPGs. (See my avatar. Tales of Symphonia is high on my list of 'favorite games ever.') So I may be a bit prejudiced in my opinion on why people dislike the genre. But I'll do my best to stay impartial.
They can be polarizing, for sure. Some people get turned off by the unrealistic, anime-esque designs when they're used to and/or prefer realism (though, of course, not all JRPGs are anime-esque). Some don't particularly like a feeling of enforced linearity. And some may just not like the genre conventions like turn-based battles or random encounters or what have you. And, of course, there's the stereotype that every single JRPG ever has the same whiny, feminine protagonist and the same storyline. Partially true, perhaps, for some games... but not entirely.
"Picking on" JRPGs is just a product of JRPGs being a fairly small genre in the West. Western gamers aren't used to JRPGs, and so they dislike them. Simple as that... or at least that's how I see it.
They can be polarizing, for sure. Some people get turned off by the unrealistic, anime-esque designs when they're used to and/or prefer realism (though, of course, not all JRPGs are anime-esque). Some don't particularly like a feeling of enforced linearity. And some may just not like the genre conventions like turn-based battles or random encounters or what have you. And, of course, there's the stereotype that every single JRPG ever has the same whiny, feminine protagonist and the same storyline. Partially true, perhaps, for some games... but not entirely.
"Picking on" JRPGs is just a product of JRPGs being a fairly small genre in the West. Western gamers aren't used to JRPGs, and so they dislike them. Simple as that... or at least that's how I see it.
This is why.Saucycardog said:
If someone likes something, they'll defend it while also insulting it's competitors. This was a thread asking why the hate for a certain genre and lo and behold comments like this come up.
"I like my game, I hate your game and you're stupid for liking it."
Well I won't keep beating a dead horse about the whole issue of every genre being quite stagnant, but I'd like to point out there is no "Shin Tagami" series.Selvec said:
You're probably referring to "Shin Megami Tensei". But ignoring the entirely forgivable spelling error of a Japanese name, last I checked that's one of the better received series in the genre. So maybe check your facts.
I resent that statement. Star Ocean: The Second Story was awesome. Much better than FFVII, in my opinion.AC10 said:
Oh? Well, alright, I can forgive that.AC10 said:
You should seriously try when you get the chance. It is a really, really good game.
I'm sorry... Why are you comparing JRPGs to anything other than WRPGS?Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon said:
That's just incredibly stupid of you.
You don't find "chest pumping patriotic[...]"-whateverness in WRPGs.
Either you're purposefully making a strawman, or simply misunderstand the whole ordeal.
OT:
Because we don't like them.
People tend to voice their opinions on things they dislike. JRPGs are one of these things. Some are decent (Lost Odyssey), some are good (Final Fantasy 6), but most are shit.