Why do people pick on JRPGs?

[Swny Nerdgasm]

Because they aren't Baldur's Gate 2?

 

[Xander_VJ]

Because most JRPG haters only really know a couple of series (and one or two games of each one), see a couple of screenshots and a video of the rest, and then make their "opinion". At maximum, they play two hours.

Most people who bash JRPG games nowadays are not people who liked them before and now hate them. They are people who didn't like them from the very beginning.

But JRPGs were insanely popular before, something that REALLY pissed off that kind of people. And since now they lost their thunder, they are just taking advantage of the situation to let all their frustation out.


In any case it's true that the genre lacks of a true star game to drive the genre forward. The series that used to do it in the past has completely lost it. Completely. Still, maybe FF XIII is full of it, but it really wanted to change (whoever says otherwise, don't know a crap about JRPGs... or games for that matter). It was just misguided. But unfortunately, its misguidance had AWFUL consequences.

Still, there has been some great JRPGs in the recent years. "Lost Odyssey" is one of the most emotive games of the last years. "Tales of Vesperia" proved that you can still have a compelling anime-like story with likable characters if you do things right. The "Persona" games that there is still room for innovation. "Resonance of Fate" and "The World Ends with You" that combat systems can explorer new interesting terrains.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Mostly because their not testosterone filled games like halo and COD.

This is why.

If someone likes something, they'll defend it while also insulting it's competitors. This was a thread asking why the hate for a certain genre and lo and behold comments like this come up.

"I like my game, I hate your game and you're stupid for liking it."

You mistake my comment for an insult. I merely said their not testosterone games like halo and COD. I am saying how they are different. Are you saying that JRPGs have all the action, killing, gore, and violence in a shooter like COD?

 

[clipped crow]

Mostly because their not testosterone filled games like halo and COD.

This is why.

If someone likes something, they'll defend it while also insulting it's competitors. This was a thread asking why the hate for a certain genre and lo and behold comments like this come up.

"I like my game, I hate your game and you're stupid for liking it."

You mistake my comment for an insult. I merely said their not testosterone games like halo and COD. I am saying how they are different. Are you saying that JRPGs have all the action, killing, gore, and violence in a shooter like COD?

No no, you're right.

Spoiler

That guy right there is much less filled with testosterone this this guy. Yep...

Spoiler

While that wasn't your intention and I am sorry, I still stand by my point that each side merely likes their own games and holds an odd competition of insulting the others' games. This stemming from a misplaced insecurity of there own choice. The only reason that JRPGs are picked on most is because they are the smallest group, mostly from the J part of the JRPG...

 

[veloper]

There are 2 kinds of RPG from Japan:
1 SRPGs are japanese tactical('strategic') games and can have pretty solid TB gameplay

2 what we call JRPGs are grindfests interspersed with terrible dialogue and VO.

The terrible stories and silly extravagant characters can be forgiven in SRPGs, because gameplay is king. Not so for JRPGs where the rediculous stories is all they have going for them.

Where does a game like Star Ocean or Tales of* fall into, where the combat is king, and more fast paced than anything you find in WRPG's and is extremely varied and rewarding, and where grinding is optional to give newbie players an edge if they need it?

SRPGs are always turn-based. So both are not SRPG, but JRPG.

Ok, then you would say, according to your generalization, that games like Star Ocean and Tales only have the ridiculous stories going for them, when in fact they have superior combat systems to every WRPG release from the last 100 years.

First of all, most WRPGs have shitty combat, so that doesn't say much. You have to go back to oldschool games or play indie games like Knights of the Chalice (2009).

Secondly, Star Ocean and Tales are flashy and may appeal more to action gamers, but that's not the same thing as having the depth of a SRPG.

Or Demon's Souls, where combat is still fast paced and fluid, but requires actual coordination and tactics, and careful approach of every foe, rather than just bosses. Tell me the name of a WRPG better than Demon's Souls and I tell you that you are wrong.

It's an ACTION rpg, not a pure RPG. How do you even suppose to compare DS to traditional RPGs?

What differentiates an Action RPG from a "pure" RPG? It has all the stuff you would find in a traditional RPG, it has character customization, inventory, equipment, character progression based around certain atributes, you kill demons, demons give "xp and money", also phat loot.

Action is what differentiates them, obviously.

A SRPG or an old school RPG is a thinking man's game, not a popamole. Tactics and strategy, not fast reflexes.

We have seperate labels for these genres, because fans of the one, may not prefer the other.

They are all RPG's we are talking about, and Demon's Souls is a Japanese RPG, which is what the "J" stands for.

"RPG" without a prefex, has become a meaningless label that says nothing about the actual gameplay.

So no, not every game with an XP bar from Japan is a JRPG. Such a label would be pointless.

Genres are not about WHERE it's made, but about HOW it plays. A JRPG is an RPG in the form of the early RPGs from Japan, so think Final Fantasy.

A western developer could make FF-clone and it would then also be a "JRPG", while SRPGs are typically made in Japan, but are NOT JRPGs.


Demon's Souls is an action game with XP and loot, so ARPG, not JRPG. A nice action game, with a good challenge, but action nontheless and so it may not appeal to oldschool roleplayers.
I had said traditional RPGs for that reason.

You don't go about making generalizations about JRPG and then dismiss 2 series and 1 title because they are not convenient to your generalization.

Or else I could just say every WRPG is about crappy lore on humans, elfs and orcs and then dismiss Mass Effect and Fallout and other inconvenient titles as being "alternative" RPG's and not really WRPG.

You can rip on WRPGs as much as you like, as most WRPGs are mediocre or worse. Generalisations are useful like that.

 

[Kurokami]

Recently it has been apparent some people have been picking on JRPGs. Why? They are saying that they are repetitive, understandable, but if you're going to pick on something for repetitiveity why JRPGs? Other genres aren't even trying mainly (the bulk of) FPSes, Fighters and Hack and slashes (not sure if thats the right name but things like Bayonetta, Devil may cry and darksiders). If we changed the game mechanics halfway through a game like street fighter people would complain, would they not? What is the difference with JRPGs who actually try to change it more then any other genre. (see Renasonce of fate, Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 and (sigh) Final Fantasy 13)
[/rant]
What are your thoughts?

People have differing opinions, I for example would choose to pick on FPS when looking at generic games, others look at JRPG's when they wanna express tedious turn based gaming or emo leads. Its just a matter of opinion, don't take anything by it.

(I personally enjoy JRPG's, such as the final fantasy games, or atleast most of the ones I've played. The latest, which as you said tried to be different, is not among my worth while list)

 

[Xander_VJ]

I just love "convenient" genre definition...

When a game does not support my theory that a genre sucks/rocks, I just pick a characteristic that doesn't fit and say "it's not a [bashed/praised genre name], it is a [another genre name].

Strategic RPGs (the ones that follow the "Fire Emblem" or "Disgaea" formula) and Action RPGs (the ones that follow the "Secret of Mana" or "Tales of" formula) have been considered inside the JRPG genre since the SNES days, back when we didn't use the freaking "J" and they were just "console RPGs" or "RPGs".

We can't take "Star Ocean 4" for picking on JRPGs for it's mediocre story and dialog, and then when we point out other better written entries in the series ("Star Ocean 2") say it doesn't count because "Star Ocean is not a JRPG series, but a ARPG series".

I mean... C'mon!

 

[Shock and Awe]

Personally it is because they are very cliched and have failed to advance with the rest of the industry, unlike their western cousins. Older JRPGs such as Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger are fantastic, partially because they rely on an amazing story, not graphics like modern JRPGs.

 

[eatenbyagrue]

Okay, I take it back. People like to hate on JRPGs, because like every other species, genus and sub-genus of fanboy, the JRPG fan is annoying as hell, and watching them seethe is nothing short of amusing.

JRPGs are also a very visible, and easy to hate target, since there's a lot of things silly and/or just plain ridiculous in pretty much all of them.

 

[Cheesepower5]

Okay, I take it back. People like to hate on JRPGs, because like every other species, genus and sub-genus of fanboy, the JRPG fan is annoying as hell, and watching them seethe is nothing short of amusing.

JRPGs are also a very visible, and easy to hate target, since there's a lot of things silly and/or just plain ridiculous in pretty much all of them.

"Like any other"...

Aren't you kinda contradicting yourself there buddy?

 

[Skorpyo]

Mostly because they are easy targets.

They are more about subject matter than instant-gratification killing.

Also, bad voice-acting and cutscenes.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Snip

Its a simple fact that JRPG's are from Japan and are a from a whole different culture then FPS and similar shooters. JRPGs are as non-direct action based as you can get, and as a culture, Western culture has been about direct conflict for hundreds of generations, while Japan has been a much more passive culture. The anime design plus the often bad voice dubbing in everything ported from Japan (CURSE YOU 4KIDS!) makes the culture differences stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[Mykayel1]

I think ive grown out of JRPG's. I used to enjoy the final fantasy series but I cba to start picking them up again. I don't necesarily hate them now. I just became cinical about the many things jrpgs have in common nowadays. (Pink haired, androgenous teenagers killing Satan - Yahtzee)

I'd actually like to know what you are talking about (you and yahtzee), I've played Persona, Final Fantasy 7,8 and 10 along with Resonance Of Fate....the main characters did not have pink hair and I didn't battle Satan. If you are referring to a 'satanic' figure as the end boss, well that also applies to almost ALL Western RPGs (heck, DIABLO is even NAMED after Satan), Dragon Age Origins is also very bloated and cliche and has a Satanic figure as the end boss...hmmm...what about World Of WarCraft? (Molten Core? Illidan? Onyxia?) People complain about that all the time, but it also applies to Western RPGs. Hey, here's another fun fact: JRPG Characters have unrealistic powers. I'd again like to mention they are not meant to be realistic. Gears Of War is unrealistic, Halo is unrealistic, GTA4 is unrealistic, what do those games NOT have in common with JRPGs? Well they CLAIM they are realistic.

So, basically people hate (I said HATE, not dislike) JRPGs either because they are xenophobic or just plain idiots (like there is much of a difference). Also, I'd like to point out that some people don't like JRPGs because it's a matter of taste, the 'xenophobic or idiot' description does not apply to those people, they just don't like them, you can't make them like JRPGs because it's just their personal opinion and they shouldn't be forced to explain it.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

For me, JRPGs lost most of their appeal when I graduated to my 20s. A lot of JRPG protagonists are spiky-haired teenagers who spend most of the game whining about family drama or awkwardly engaging female party members. It's the standard"coming of age" character arc found in nearly every book/movie/game directed at young adults. There's nothing wrong with it, but I don't identify with any of it at this stage in my life. As a 28 year old man, I'm not playing videogames to escape into some stagnant alternate reality where everyone's still in high school.

Not trying to be condescending. I just happen to believe quite strongly that there is a significant correlation between age and fondness for JRPGs. And there's nothing wrong with that either. I loved 'em when I was younger, and I feel like you might be kind of a boring teenager if you don't.

 

[TiefBlau]

It's simple, they're losers.

I'll explain. The protagonists are often young, slim and attractive, and are liked by girls. This is the exact opposite of the gamers complaining. These gamers are old, were never popular when they're young, still aren't landing any girls, are out of shape and ugly. They want games where the people look like them, like in Quake 3 Arena or Kane & Lynch.

Anecdotaly, I've never met anyone in person who is reasonably good looking and has an attractive girlfriend complain about a JRPG in the way people on the internet do.

I know this will draw a lot of rage, but it's true.

Alternative, more reasonable explanations.
1. Global Warming
2. Resurgence of Hitler.
3. 50% of world raped by spontaneously appearing ninjas.

 

[MrJohnson]

It's simple, they're losers.

I'll explain. The protagonists are often young, slim and attractive, and are liked by girls. This is the exact opposite of the gamers complaining. These gamers are old, were never popular when they're young, still aren't landing any girls, are out of shape and ugly. They want games where the people look like them, like in Quake 3 Arena or Kane & Lynch.

Anecdotaly, I've never met anyone in person who is reasonably good looking and has an attractive girlfriend complain about a JRPG in the way people on the internet do.

I know this will draw a lot of rage, but it's true.

Now some entries in the genre really do have some serious drawbacks, particularly with translations but that's when you'll hear specific complaints rather than general dislike of RPGs.

I know pe-pe-pe-pe-PLENTY of attractive people who don't like JRPG's.

Want to know why? characters they can relate too, realistic characters, good storylines that aren't overcomplicated, mechanics that are changed at least somewhat then every other one in the genre, are all not present in the majority of JRPG's.

That, and the cultural gap.

 

[2fish]

My personal issue with the few JRPGs I have run across is emersion, that little connection between myself and the game is huge for me in RPGs. In other types of games see bayonetta I can forgive the lack of it because I get to hack and slash thing to death, the fast pace keeps me from having to focus on my character and the reasons they are acting the way they do. In any FPS I don?t have to worry about the way I react to a problem, I just shoot it.

In my RPGs I need to be able to connect with my character, have my goals and their goals become one. Something in the JRPG hinders that connection for me. Maybe it is the art or the culture gap. I watch a little anime and there are some Japanese culture things that I find annoying, when they run a semi-serious anime and then for some reason pop this into it

to me it breaks flow and removes me from the show/game.

I also have something against the art style, it bugs me if I watch it too long.

In the end it all comes down to taste. I fear that this has become a powder ked of a thread, we just have to sit back and watch the fanboys and the haters devour each other.

I shall leave before I get the urge to offer a match

Spoiler

 

[LastCelt1989]

Because as cliched as some wrpgs can be (dragons age), they still dont hold a candle to JRPGS.
The best example I know of is Eternal Sonata, not a bad game but it plays like a laundry list of J-cliches, silly haircuts? Check. Annoying comic relief? Check. Ridiculous weapons? Check.
Linear, corridor based gameplay? Check.
And so on and so forth, this is the same stuff that people were getting fed up on in the PS2 era and Eternal Sonata is not that old a game.
FF13, as much as I love that game, that series is kinda the flagship title for JRPGs (at least in the west) and yet it too managed to tick all the same boxes.
Remember that for RPGs the chief focus is the story, this isn't like an FPS were a story is nice but is really just a sideshow to the acton, no here its center stage and some of the plot holes in JRPGs are just inexcuseable. Anyone whos finished FF8 can attest to that.
As for charcters, lets just look at the final fanatasy series from 8 onwards.
8 - No-one can make an arguement for these people not being emo. I'm sorry but just look at Squall and Laguna, they look like mannequins in a hot-topic.
9 - Not emos but weird cartoony characters and furries. Again, not the best thing to appeal to a western audience but at least it was different.
10 - Wakka? Irratating and incompetent. Yuna? Naive and stupid. Seymour? The most unthreatning villain in any videogame ever, has an incredibly soft voice for a badguy and just looks ridiculous. Tidus? Again, a walking goddamn cliche with some of the worst voiceacting since the original resident evil.

Its possible that all these points are specific to final fantasy and not JRPGs in general but like i said above the vast majority of them are prevalent in both Eternal Sonata Valkyrie Chronicles so Im more inlclined to say there more widespread then that.
At the end of the day, as long they persist on stories that just leave titanic plot holes and chaacters that i swear are impossible to get behind (Snow)they are only going to get less and less popular.

 

[CmdrGoob]

Oh god yes, Eternal Sonata. Don't remind me.
*shudder*


So bad.

 

[Apathetic Flamingo]

I used to love the Final Fantasy series, but it all slowly changed... I don't hate JRPGs. I hate Square-Enix, but I can still think of SEVERAL JRPGs that make me smile. Demon's Souls. Super Mario: Legend of the Seven Stars.. Ahem... Finalfantasy7. People say JRPGs nowadays are horrible but it's actually not true. Final Fantasy is awful. Especially XIII, which may just be the worst game I've ever played. Sounds extreme, I know, but it's true.