Why do people think Morrowind is so superior to Oblivion?

[Tyrant T100]

Also in some ways I think the graphics of Morrowind have aged better than Oblivion's mostly due to art direction. As Morrowind was quite unique a high res texture pack and a high polygon model pack fixes all the issues with it. Where as Oblivion will always suffer from rather bland environments and of course those creepy potato faces. Oblivion came out the same year as Dark Messiah of Might and Magic and Dark Messiah has aged way way better than Oblivion despite using an older engine because of it's art design.

 

[Right Hook]

Oblivion had a horrible list inventory compared to Morrowinds awesome grid inventory.

This is something I definitely agree with. Morrowind had superior inventory.

 

[RetardedKitty]

Why Oblivion failed in eyes of many was because... it came out to fast. No really, ask people how long did they play Morrowind, how many times did they repeat the game, created new characters, got new add-ons, installed the game again because of the expansions that came out.
Most of people i know including me still played and enjoyed Morrowind in its full a little before Oblivion came out. And when a lot of us got it to our hands... well we got sick of it, no matter how much different graphics or art is or even the quests game was still the same, as someone before me mentioned it had even less stuff than Morrowind. If you eat a chocolate cake for evey day for 3 years, changing your diet to strawberry cake will probably make you ill anyway... because its still a Cake...

 

[imnot]

I actually prefer Oblivion, and I played Morrowind first, I juts cant forgive it for its combat.
And how come evryone in the town has memorised the towns travel guide? seriously ask for dierections and they will rattle of a 3 paragraph long wall of text.

 

[skullduggery]

Well, one of the major problems that I had with Oblivion was that from far away, it looks great. Trees swaying in the wind, people talking, and weather-worn Ayleid ruins.

It seemed however, when you got close up, things fell apart. Animals in the forest pass by each other with a courtesy nod or chase you across a continent, "SAW A MUDCRAB TODAY", and those Ayleid ruins just go "Hey look! I'm old! You can tell by my skeletons." In Morrowind, the Dwemer ruins felt, well...alive, steam bellowing, clockwork guardian clacking down a corridor, and you can pick up random stone gears.

The environment and mythos was also much better. The black Dunmer were colonized by the white Imperials (obvious allegory is obvious), and they were livid about it. Their religion was being pushed aside, their traditional culture supplanted by mercantile Imperial traits, and their lifestyle was under constant threat. This was portrayed really well, at least to me. Even the bad guy was interesting with the whole 'what really happened at Red Mountain?' feeling to it. The random Dreamers that would pop out and talk/attack you in urban areas, and the threat of zombification made those dungeons so much more interesting.

Complex characters, good storytelling, and minor details will make a game great, rather than just, "HERP DERP I'M AN EVIL DEMON MONSTER DESTROYIN' UR CITY CUZ THAT'S WHAT I DO BRO."

Also cliff racers. I must have spent 6+ hours engaging in genocidal extermination of those foul things. Ugh, just remembering that damn screech is angering.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Alright, here's the thing: fully-voiced dialogue, improved gameplay/interface, and graphics/animations? Those are things that happened because Oblivion was a sequel on a next-gen console quite some time after its predecessor. And those aren't areas were people consider Morrowind to be superior to Oblivion.

Yes, I get that. I made the point because adding all of those things meant they wouldn't be able to flesh out certain aspects of the game, like in previous ones. Quality or quantity, I totally see where you are coming from with this though.

No, you clearly don't. It's not quality versus quantity. What you see in Morrowind was the sort of quality that you could get out of the hardware/software of the time. Again, you can't retroactively apply modern standards to past opinions. You can say now that you didn't enjoy Morrowind because it didn't hold up to the test of time, but your assertion was that everyone who preferred Morrowind must have been misremembering whether or not they had fun.

Here's the thing: you judge a game by how much fun you have playing it. A fair number of people had more fun with Morrowind than they did with Oblivion. They didn't play Oblivion and then go back and play Morrowind. They played the latter when it was first released, and then the former when it was released.

Definitely, I didn't claim my opinion was the right one, I realize I technically played these games incorrectly, I took that into account when I was comparing them.

Again, no, you clearly didn't. I think it's safe to say that every person who says they enjoyed Morrowind more than Oblivion also played Morrowind when it was first released. That is the single fact that invalidates every assertion about graphics, game engine, etc that you can make, simply because it was physically impossible to do those things when Morrowind first came out.

Gameplay? Yes, Oblivion was an improvement. Story? Not so much. Oblivion had a great story, but Morrowind's was better, the highlight being a villain who was actually a compelling character.

And to be frank, you'll never really understand why many people liked Morrowind more than Oblivion. Because you weren't one of those people: it would've required you to be playing Morrowind back in 2002, and then picking up Oblivion in 2006. It has nothing to do with your condescending remark about nostalgia: it's a matter of knowing that standards don't change retroactively for past achievements.

You're right, I can't understand why people like it more, that's why I made this thread, that way I could at least get a little insight into it.

You say 'like.' That's the issue with your entire argument: you say 'like' when you should be saying 'liked.' They liked Morrowind better when they first played it than they liked Oblivion when they first played it. Practically every point you're judging it by is a software standard, which is completely irrelevant. Judging Morrowind's software at the time of its release by Oblivion's standards would be like judging the Kinect by the standards set by the not-actually-yet-invented holodeck.

My remark about nostalgia wasn't meant to come off as condescending, it is unfortunate that you felt it was.

I see. So instead of apologizing for the wording of your original statement, you're expressing pity for how I interpreted it? There is absolutely no sincerity in an apology that says, "I'm sorry you thought that's what I said."

And, ironically, that's the sort of condescension I was talking about.

 

[Exterminas]

I love how people always state that Oblivion had the suprerior combat system.

The combat systems in these games were exactly the same, expect for one thing: Where Morrowind had the possibility to miss with an attack, Oblivion scaled down the damage each hit caused to compensate for a character's low skill.

That's it.

Nothing else was different.

 

[BiggyShackleton]

Hipsters, pretty much.

I couldn't get into Morrowind, hated the interface and the whole thing just felt too clunky.

Oh wow...

Morrowind is clunky????

Oblivion had a horrible list inventory compared to Morrowinds awesome grid inventory.

I rest my case.

Morrowind also had the most awesome sound effect for when you move stuff around in your inventory.

To this day that sound is still stuck in my head, only potentially beaten by the sound Icewind Dale used to make when you equipped stuff. So awesome.

 

[Right Hook]

No, you clearly don't. It's not quality versus quantity. What you see in Morrowind was the sort of quality that you could get out of the hardware/software of the time. Again, you can't retroactively apply modern standards to past opinions. You can say now that you didn't enjoy Morrowind because it didn't hold up to the test of time, but your assertion was that everyone who preferred Morrowind must have been misremembering whether or not they had fun.

No, Morrowind could have focused itself tighter and had more spoken dialogue, less but better functioning skills, etc. and that's just going off what I've seen from other games of that time. Would that been the right choice? Probably not. I feel for it's time, that's what Oblivion did, they focused it more and some people preferred that, others did not.

Again, no, you clearly didn't. I think it's safe to say that every person who says they enjoyed Morrowind more than Oblivion also played Morrowind when it was first released. That is the single fact that invalidates every assertion about graphics, game engine, etc that you can make, simply because it was physically impossible to do those things when Morrowind first came out.

How can you assume that? Generally speaking, you might be right but it certainly isn't true for absolutely everyone. Like I've said, it isn't just about graphics or engine. I thought it was more focused, I didn't feel lost, some people like that, I don't. Preferred story is just an opinion, you can't say one is better than the other.

You say 'like.' That's the issue with your entire argument: you say 'like' when you should be saying 'liked.' They liked Morrowind better when they first played it than they liked Oblivion when they first played it. Practically every point you're judging it by is a software standard, which is completely irrelevant. Judging Morrowind's software at the time of its release by Oblivion's standards would be like judging the Kinect by the standards set by the not-actually-yet-invented holodeck.

When I started this, it wasn't meant to be an argument. It was an opinion poll, I simply stated mine. The reason you find holes in my argument was because I wasn't making one, you are the one who started fighting with me over this. I was just curious and trying to get a friendly thread started, that's it.

I see. So instead of apologizing for the wording of your original statement, you're expressing pity for how I interpreted it? There is absolutely no sincerity in an apology that says, "I'm sorry you thought that's what I said."

And, ironically, that's the sort of condescension I was talking about.

This is just pure rude, so because I didn't feel the need to apologize for how I worded something, I'm the one with a problem? If I did that every time someone criticized me for something I said that they didn't like, I'd be doing that constantly. I'm sorry, truly sorry you don't like the way I write or that I don't apologize at the drop of a hat. Nobody else took offense to what I said, they realized I was asking all of this out pure curiosity and not some feeling of superiority. I really didn't want to get into an argument, say what you want and turn it back on me if you must but I'm not replying again because I don't think we will see eye to eye, so it will just be a waste of words on both our parts.

 

[Sheepy Sheep]

Personally, I preferred Oblivion because I found it more fluid and easier to get into.

I had a problem when I played Morrowind that the start of the game just took too long to get going and I spent the first few hours finding something to do. Oblivion on the other hand gave you an idea of what to do from the off.

Admittedly the environment in Morrowind was more interesting but i wouldn't necessarily say more varied; if you actually looked in detail at Oblivion each town had it's own style (the cold north, plains in the west and swamps of the south) and the more 'typical' fantasy of it just made it more accessible. It had Ayleid ruins which were marvelous and far from ordinary and all these things just drew me in to it in a way which Morrowind just couldn't


The combat and NPC dialogue felt more fluid. which is partly down to advances in the engine but as someone before has said the whole random chance to miss thing just seems odd.

Lastly, more content in a game doesn't just make it better. I had over 100 hours of gameplay in oblivion which is more than enough for a game whereas Morrowind almost smothered you in options, another thing which put me off.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Another sort of annoying complaint about Oblivion is that it was a generic fantasy setting with too many forests. You were in Cyrodiil what do you expect really? You can't get much more vanilla fantasy than there at least they kept it relatively canon to what it should have been although they could have had its native were forms.

Agh, this is the thing I hate most about people accepting Oblivion's flaws.

Cyrodiil was not LotR originally. It was actually a jungle.

The only reason it looks like it does today is because of a retcon.

And let's be honest here - why was Morrowind going to be more alien? It looks obvious from today, but really Vvardenfell is just a place which had a volcano in the middle. That's not exactly pointing to weird mushroom houses, a startling variety of unique animals and steampunk dwarves.

Which is why I said relatively canon. It is the centre of the game and home of the Imperials what I really meant was did people really expect anything else from the land that is supposed to be the native land of the generic "white" humans. Although I never said LoTR I said generic fantasy and as far as mostly forest goes it is kinda generic too.

 

[PatrickXD]

I've played Morrowind a lot, and I don't feel as though I've done much in it.
I haven't played Oblivion for many hours, and I've completed all the guilds (apart from mages, urgh that was boring), and I get the feeling that I'm scraping the barrel for more content.
Morrowind just feels a bit more complex and thought out.

 

[OpticalJunction]

I played morrowind only after finishing oblivion and for a long time thought the same, why is this dated ugly un-user friendly game so highly rated? Then the answer became obvious. Morrowind is richer in almost every aspect to oblivion, the quests are deeper, the fights are harder, the rewards are rarer and more unique and therefore more exciting when discovered. and the map is huge. It actually feels like a complete world, unlike oblivion which, while very pretty, tended to lack substance. The imperial city for instance didn't much feel like a crowded, bustling city at all. Oblivion had massive improvements in its interface design though.

 

[Strife17O7]

(pardon to the rest, but I've got some nerd-rage to target at the OP.)Ahhmmmm.....because it just is? Because it -was- a challenge even at its basic difficulty setting. It felt like it was actually -worth- exploring every single cave/fortress/tower/dungeon on Vvardenfel, because nearly each one of them offered something new & unique to either see, obtain, or kill. You getting to each and every place also felt like an accomplishment in and of itself because you couldn't simply fast-travel to any location you'd seen already. When you went from one town to the other across the island, you had to put some thought into just exactly how you were going to get there and in some cases, what you would need to bring with you to make it there intact. In IV, the process was ridiculously simple, and fast-travel made all of Cyrodill seem so small that you could fit five of it inside just the island of Vvardenfel, to say nothing of the rest of Morrowind as represented in Daggerfall.
Then there's the part where the character's role felt more important to me personally, as they were plucked from obscurity only to find out that it was pre-ordained that he/she was destined for greatness, rather than to have your character's role seem comparatively contrived from the outset as in Oblivion. I mean...your character has no further initial background than one old leader's dream. In Morrowind, you're the legendary fulfillment of an age-old prophecy so profound that the political & religious leaders of an entire nation went to great length to cover it up as heretical myth in order to keep the truth behind it hidden for their own benefit.

If you're having trouble figuring out where to go on-mission, bleeding -DO- read the journal entry for it. It's there for a reason as it's always been. You can read, can't you? I mean...how would you have even found this forum otherwise. So Oblivion is better because it's so obvious and simple that it practically does everything for you? Because it's got higher-res textures/geometry? Tough tits.

And for your information, I -did- finally go back to TESIII after having played through IV and it felt like a breath of fresh air by comparison.

/nerd rage

 

[Aidinthel]

Anyway, your playtime estimate is way off, there is definitely more than 10 hours of gameplay in Oblivion. That's like saying Morrowind only has a playtime of seven minutes just because some guy found a way to glitch his way to the end.

That's not an estimate. That's how long I played before getting bored.

 

[auwdioslave]

For me it was the atmosphere, and the infinite freedom you had with you're character. The magic system had a lot more options.

 

[Jovip]

I got into the elderscrolls, ah, wait for this. Arena. Thats right, the first game. I completed that game (granted with little to no understanding of what the hell was going on when i was 6) Then i beat daggerfall few years later.

Then came morrowind, oh morrowwind. Now, it is understandable to those who picked up the series at this game to become truely in love with the whimsical settings and surreal area. But for me it just didn't do it. The terrible interface made me want to viciously punch myself in the head with a running belt sander and the open world was something of a Tolkien-esque acid trip. That is to say i didn't enjoy it. I was dreadfully bored the entire time and sure there was alot of stuff, and i mean alot i could be playing this from the second i picked it up back in 2002 and still be finishing off sidequests today. However, i wouldn't because it would be a waste of time.

Then oblivion came and i fell back in love with the series. But let me explain to you why this is, and it may just be my preference. I enjoy the role playing, and deep immersive gameplay as much as we all do. The ability to do things almost any way you can think of. it's great. i love it. But the weird thing i find about immersion is you cannot be immersed in something that is completely foreign. Which is why to me morrowind never works. however in oblivion there was a inkling of relatability. there were deer and wolves, things we could see. the world felt medievil not complety fantasy based which i loved, i enjoyed being a hunter running around the forests killing animals skinning them and hopefully bringing enough back to buy a room for the night. it was awesome.

However, whenever i was forced to go into a cave or oblivion gate i instantly remembered i was playing a game. I didn't like that. granted i still had a shitload of fun killing daedra and skeletons, casting my magics everywhere. i was just aware i was playing a game.

My point is this, morrowwind is most likely nostalga. As when i compare morrowind to oblivion i see quality over quantity. This is just my oppinion, but i believe oblivion is the better game, and hopefully skyrim will surpass that. While morrowwind is just an acid trip on medievil realism in a dark alley.

 

[damselgaming]

Honestly I only got 30 minutes into Morrowind and it didn't really grab me. I remember swimming for a bit, getting attacked by a bird dinosaur thing, not being able to beat up a women with a sword and then my then boyfriend turning off the monitor and telling me it was, and I quote, "sexytime".

True story, never played the game again.
... Also Morrowind now just makes me think 'sexytime'.

 

[Braedan]

Another sort of annoying complaint about Oblivion is that it was a generic fantasy setting with too many forests. You were in Cyrodiil what do you expect really? You can't get much more vanilla fantasy than there at least they kept it relatively canon to what it should have been although they could have had its native were forms.

Cyrodill was actually supposed to be quite a lot of rainforest before they turned it into new Zealand. It was a quite varied province with a bit of every other province seeping in at all the edges.

OT: my biggest reason for liking Morrowind more was the leveling system. Oblivion felt pointless since you never get better and you have the chance of making the game unplayable if you do it wrong (and not in a logical way)

there are a number of other things, but nothing that stands out so much as autoleveling.