Why do people think Morrowind is so superior to Oblivion?

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Another sort of annoying complaint about Oblivion is that it was a generic fantasy setting with too many forests. You were in Cyrodiil what do you expect really? You can't get much more vanilla fantasy than there at least they kept it relatively canon to what it should have been although they could have had its native were forms.

Cyrodill was actually supposed to be quite a lot of rainforest before they turned it into new Zealand. It was a quite varied province with a bit of every other province seeping in at all the edges.

OT: my biggest reason for liking Morrowind more was the leveling system. Oblivion felt pointless since you never get better and you have the chance of making the game unplayable if you do it wrong (and not in a logical way)

there are a number of other things, but nothing that stands out so much as autoleveling.

Which is why I said relatively canon and already explained why I said relatively canon to another poster a few posts up from this.

Another sort of annoying complaint about Oblivion is that it was a generic fantasy setting with too many forests. You were in Cyrodiil what do you expect really? You can't get much more vanilla fantasy than there at least they kept it relatively canon to what it should have been although they could have had its native were forms.

Agh, this is the thing I hate most about people accepting Oblivion's flaws.

Cyrodiil was not LotR originally. It was actually a jungle.

The only reason it looks like it does today is because of a retcon.

And let's be honest here - why was Morrowind going to be more alien? It looks obvious from today, but really Vvardenfell is just a place which had a volcano in the middle. That's not exactly pointing to weird mushroom houses, a startling variety of unique animals and steampunk dwarves.

Which is why I said relatively canon. It is the centre of the game and home of the Imperials what I really meant was did people really expect anything else from the land that is supposed to be the native land of the generic "white" humans. Although I never said LoTR I said generic fantasy and as far as mostly forest goes it is kinda generic too.

I threw in LotR because that's what Cyrodiil, according to Todd Howard, was based on - it was coming out around the time the films were coming out. It wasn't a cash in, it was more inspiration.

But LotR is the epitome of genericness, in the same way that Half-Life 1 is. It came first, but so many things have copied from it it seems bland from today's viewpoint.

Also, Cyrodiil isn't really the home of the Imperials - that only happened vaguely in Morrowind. Imperials weren't in A/DF, so it was going to be a mix of races. Which it was, so I can't really fault it for that.

I guess if you're going to fault the setting, I'd go for that aspect, because it meant that all races had to be friendly to each other. There was no racial tension, which was one of the most compelling things about Morrowind for a lot of people (including me).

But I've said my piece. Draw your own conclusions.

That's fair enough if you didn't like it for those reasons that was fine I never said Oblivion had a good setting just that there is not point in complaining about a generic setting after Morrowind. Yes I know originally it was different but we have to go with what is considered cannon and by the time Morrowind came around it was obvious(well I thought it was or at least that it was the direction they were going) that it was to be the generic home of the Imperials.

 

[brainslurper]

Just reading some of the responses on this thread deterred me from ever buying morowind.

 

[Terrara]

You'll laugh but I remember Morrowind had a lot more stuff. I remember the whole cool idea of going in to kill gods (or were those avatars? Can't remember) simply cause I could. But my most vivid memory is killing (accidentally) key NPC and the message "You killed a key figure and now you shall live in the world of misery and suffering and pointless running around 'cause you f&cked up" Those were the days. Taught me a valuable lesson that my action usually have consequences. As i was pretty small, I like to believe this game was one of the reasons I didn't become one of those douche teens(10-16) who think they are so great. But I still liked Oblivion better because a) a lot shorter and a lot less reading i.e. sucks out less life out of you, b) Where else I can become the Listener, Knight of the Nine AND a Mad Goddess at the same time?

 

[Mordekaien]

The whole world is alien and not 1/2 normal animals like TES IV.

There were rats, don't you forget them rats!

OT: It was better in terms of options it gave me to shape my character... that and noone held my hands during quests...

 

[imnot]

True story, never played the game again.
... Also Morrowind now just makes me think 'sexytime'.

I think you just ruined the game for me aswell ;_; Especially sice I was thinking about Fargoth when I read that DX

 

[DYin01]

I enjoyed Morrowind as much as Oblivion and I put about equal amounts of time in both games. Morrowind had more content, but who honestly enjoyed the combat system? I grew used to it, but I never actually enjoyed it. The whole diceroll thing was stupid to see in real time. The combat skills you were using had to be 80 at the very least to be reliable.

 

[Eggbert]

As someone who enjoys Oblivion more than Morrowind, I do understand where people are coming from. From what I've seen there was just a lot more content in Morrowind.

That said Oblivion was a lot more enjoyable to me because it felt a lot less obtuse. The first five-ten hours of Morrowind are hell, getting used to the combat and travel systems. It's worse if your coming in from Oblivion because you're used to a fast travel system and a very detailed map.

I've been looking into the Morroblivion mod though, simply because I really want to experience all that stuff.

Bah! X:Beyond the Frontier took me 5 hours to get used to the controls, 5-10 for the game itself isn't obtuse!

Dwarf Fortress takes months to get used to, and that's with the wiki (assuming you want to do everything). And you need to spend a few solid hours of playing before you can even really tell what you're looking at.

 

[Hagi]

Morrowind was exciting.

You entered a dungeon you never knew what you'd find. The first enemy you encounter could be so much stronger then you were so you had to slowly inch your way into the dungeon, always being on the lookout for what enemies you'd be facing.

The environments were varied so if you went exploring there'd always be something new to find and there were simply so many hidden secrets in the world that it'd take literally hundreds of hours before you came even close to finding a majority of them.

Your choices meant something. Allying with the Thieves guild could get you into serious trouble with other guilds. Choosing a great house meant you couldn't choose any other great house. Becoming a vampire meant you had to adapt a totally different play-style.

Oblivion on the other hand was a bit dull. If you entered a dungeon you'll basically always find level-appropriate enemies carrying level-appropriate loot in one out of five or so possible environments. If you'd join a guild it wouldn't carry any consequences for future actions in the game, you'd still be able to do everything else. And the entire world just felt nearly copy-pasted, there were just so few truly unique and interesting spots.

 

[ElectroJosh]

From my perspective TES games were getting better (in terms of graphics, story, in game atmosphere, ease of play) with each installment. Oblivion looked like it was going to be even better and it was an improvement in a couple of areas: The graphics were lovely and it was easier to play. However the world itself wasn't as spectacular, the npc/monster leveling was a real pain and there wasn't as much to do and see.

The thing is, after playing Fallout 3 I realised that Bethesda had put too much emphasis on the graphics for Oblivion and not the game itself. I love Fallout 3 (the ending aside).

There is nostalgia attached, yes, but I think that a lot of Morrowind's fans would have rather replayed Morrowind with Oblivion's engine and some of the gameplay tweaks than the game they got.

 

[Blind Sight]

Everyone up here has given some very great (and true) reasons about why Morrowind is better then Oblivion but I think people are missing out on three key reasons.

1. Mora Tong
2. Motherfucking Silt Striders
3. A naked mage falls out of the sky after you leave the first town.

I remember him being in a dress, actually.


At the 32:50 mark if anybody's interested.

Why do people enjoy Morrowind better then Oblivion? I don't think it's just nostalgia. I think it mainly has to do with how Oblivion was somewhat generic in its setting, with its Medieval-based architecture and English countryside environments (the swamps and mountains, as a result, were my favourite places in the game). Morrowind is just bizarre in contrast, and uses its environments and architecture to actually convey a story. Going into a town and seeing a small amount of traditional Dunmer architecture surrounded by Telvanni structures with an Imperial fort in the background really shows what's going on culturally in the world. The 'old ways' are dying out and being swept away by more 'modern' societal values. The environment itself is a great contrast. The 'foreigners' huddle mostly in the grassy plains and valleys that line the island, while the more traditional Dunmer live in communities in the Ashlands or in rocky peninsulas. As a result you see far more about how these cultures act then anything in Oblivion. Not to mention the story itself has themes of colonization, globalization, multiculturalism, 'Future Shock', etc. while Oblivion goes for a much more standard generic fantasy plot. I mean, I personally think that Bethesda can't write themselves out of a paper bag, but Morrowind is their best plot because of these themes (it's also well structured, which helps).

 

[Vhite]

I agree with most of the things mentioned above. Also I am bloody hypocrite for thinking that Morrowind is better than Oblivion that I also happen to hate and play right now not mentioning days I spent playing Oblivion in past. But yeah, I dislike Oblivion much more than Morrowind that I could never get into (believe me, I tried).
Dont try to find reason behind this.

 

[SamuelT]

Everyone up here has given some very great (and true) reasons about why Morrowind is better then Oblivion but I think people are missing out on three key reasons.

1. Mora Tong
2. Motherfucking Silt Striders
3. A naked mage falls out of the sky after you leave the first town.

The defense rests its case.

Wasn't naked when it fell though.

Only if you decided that your prisoner ass would look great in those funky shoes, kickin' robe and awesome hat.

I did.

 

[regalphantom]

The only thing that Oblivion did better than Morrowind is that it's combat system was more balanced in that non-melee combat was viable (In morrowind the only way I could ever actually kill something was by applying some variant of a stick to some variant of a skull). The world in Oblivion is less compelling, the leveling system was a mess (specifically the world scaling, which I hope is NEVER DONE AGAIN), while more viable, magic was also less impressive (flying through the air while shooting dudes with my bow feels awesome, throwing fireballs which feel no different then firing a bow... not so much), and the random caves/dungeons/demon pits etc were a lot more satisfying in Morrowind. And not to mention that the plot was a lot more interesting, and the factions felt like more than linear quest-givers and actually had some depth (for comparison, the House Haluu presented a friendly face to the outside world but were deeply corrupt and vicious, while House Telvani, while bending some ethical barriers and employing promotion by knife-in-the-back, were not outright evil and it was actually easy to sympathize with them. The factions in Oblivion were... dull).

Also, for reference, I picked up the game of the year edition of Morrowind for the Xbox near the end of it's life, then played Oblivion, then went back to replay Morrowind, and I still loved it. Yes, the graphics are horrible in comparison, but as somebody said earlier, that's like criticizing a movie from the 40's for being in black and white, or like criticizing Shakespeare or Chaucer for being written in old English. It's not really a compelling argument.

 

[wurrble182]

morrowinds combat was, even the most overly defensive fanboy has to admit, a joke at best. Window dressing for the mathematics that was going on underneath. It might've had varied environments, but what's the point when they all looked like ass? Either horrible textures, or worse, just plain bland and badly designed (im thinking of that one huge floating city made up of big islands, an incomprehensible maze that i never wish to see again as long as i game). As an immersive game that tries to pull you in and make you really believe you're there, sorry but travelling by giant daddy-long-legs instead of fast travelling just doesnt cut it. Oblivion was far more immersive despite the things that are horribly wrong with THAT game (speech mini-game, villagers repeating the same gibberish ad infinitum, and much much more)

but when all is said and done, Skyrim for me will make all of this a moot point, i honestly cant see myself returning to these two games, TES V looks to have improved the concept in so many areas that i honestly couldn't look back, BUT - if i was asked which elder scrolls, III or IV id liked to see remade in 10 years time, it'd be morrowind hands down. Far better world, far worse execution.

 

[Nyquisted]

Depth basically.

There were maybe 3 times as many guilds and often they had politically opposite goals, the villain was delightfully complex in terms of lore and allegiance and there was a marked difference between the world of Morrowind and ours.

Oh and silt striders were delightful.

 

[Onihoshi]

Just face it both are good, One did something better than the other, and Oblivion was less complex couse of the market ( look at games today ).

Morrowind was great but it had some problems like Vivec. whenever I had a quest there i just wanted to kill myself. also i wasted like 5 hours looking for some cave that was supposed to be south-east from the village but turn out to be south about 1 min walk.
Also the spells were a mess. i remember than after being a succesfull, rich vampire killing fighter i decided to learn some magic and i went to mages guilt and bought all the spells available and i was left with like 30 or 40 spell names that i didnt knew what they do and how they are used, so i learned archery instead.

Oblivion was more user friendly but less complex, which isnt actually bad. the enviroments were blend but the official mods like shivering illes fixed that right up. could use more voice actors and dont kill of patric stevard 10 min in the game.

As said both are good, depends on what you want from a game.

 

[Michael Hirst]

I prefer the lore of Morrowind I find there's much more interesting background also the world itself is more unwelcoming and hostile with recurring themes of slavery and racism as opposed to Oblivion which had a much more welcoming and friendly world where all races lived in harmony with no political interests unlike Morrowind which was a world run by corrupt and opposing politics.

Oblivion is your generic fairytale fantasy setting compared with Morrowind, I still like Oblivion as a game but only find it to be okay next to Morrowind (and I only play through that recently, no nostalgia goggles here) though Morrowind without mods definitely is hideous to look at now.

 

[spartan231490]

The gameplay absolutely sucks, when compared to oblivion. It's choppy and unintuitive. However, the story is amazing, really in depth. Also, late game content gives you the power of a god.