Why do Science fiction and Fantasy have to be mutually exclusive

[Zykon TheLich]

They aren't mutually exclusive: see Warhammer 40K, Dune or Star Wars. They often don't go together because magic doesn't fit in most sci-fi universes, and vice versa, but they can merge into "science fantasy".

Funny thing I always found about fantasy/sci fi is that magic is ok in sci fi as long as you call it 'psychic powers' or something along those lines, it just seems more 'sciency'...although to add to Degs point psi power come from us rather from some magical force so it does kind of fit with the sci fi 'we can solve our own problems because we are awesomely clever' or we create our own problems because we are too clever for our own good.

Anyway, "Why do Science fiction and Fantasy have to be mutually exclusive?" ...because if you get fantasy in my sci fi or vice versa I will hunt you down and kill you like the rabid dog you are.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Well, Fray is really far off into the Buffyverse's future and, well, it's the Buffyverse.

What's going on with that, anyway? Did the future stop existing because Buffy

Spoiler

killed future Willow?

Because the last thing I remember, Fray and her sister were still, you know...alive, and such. No apparent collapsing of Fray's future, which presumably means that

Spoiler

Buffy and her army of Slayers all end up dead/depowered somehow, and the line dies out for a few hundred years

OT: There are lots of things that blend both. I particularly enjoyed Lost Odyssey - fantastic machines as well as magic. The same can be said for just about any Final Fantasy game, except for the part about me enjoying them ;-)

EDIT: Ack, sorry, messed up the spoiler tags...

 

[Valkyrie101]

They aren't mutually exclusive: see Warhammer 40K, Dune or Star Wars. They often don't go together because magic doesn't fit in most sci-fi universes, and vice versa, but they can merge into "science fantasy".

Funny thing I always found about fantasy/sci fi is that magic is ok in sci fi as long as you call it 'psychic powers' or something along those lines, it just seems more 'sciency'...although to add to Degs point psi power come from us rather from some magical force so it does kind of fit with the sci fi 'we can solve our own problems because we are awesomely clever' or we create our own problems because we are too clever for our own good.

Anyway, "Why do Science fiction and Fantasy have to be mutually exclusive?" ...because if you get fantasy in my sci fi or vice versa I will hunt you down and kill you like the rabid dog you are.

Yeah, but most sci-fi with psychic powers is soft sci-fi, which often veers towards science fantasy. it depends on how well explained everything is, and how plausible the explanations are.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Yeah, but most sci-fi with psychic powers is soft sci-fi, which often veers towards science fantasy. it depends on how well explained everything is, and how plausible the explanations are.

Kinda, just because it's not hard sci fi doesn't mean it's sci fantasy though, Star Trek had minor psychic powers as did...ummm that other one on TV that was a bit like start trek...um, dunno, as you said, it depends some are, some aren't. My point is that science fiction is more acceptin of the idea of psychic power than it is of magic.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Actually, Joss has plans to sooner or later start Fray back up. Also, of course the slayers die sooner or later, they aren't immortal. They'll die of violence, age, illness and other things.

Well yeah, but as it currently stands, new Slayers are being discovered all the time. The change to the way magic works doesn't just make every existent Potential a Slayer, it continues into the future. From what the comics have shown, it presumably happens at the onset of puberty, so more Slayers will be becoming empowered all the time, without even the tedious need for the previous one to die.

So what I'm pondering is how, over the next few centuries, the number is whittled down from something like 1,800 to zero, the magic takes a break for a few hundred years, and then a new girl is randomly chosen. It made a kinda sense before seasons 7 & 8, but it's a lot more difficult to imagine now.

 

[Valkyrie101]

Yeah, but most sci-fi with psychic powers is soft sci-fi, which often veers towards science fantasy. it depends on how well explained everything is, and how plausible the explanations are.

Kinda, just because it's not hard sci fi doesn't mean it's sci fantasy though, Star Trek had minor psychic powers as did...ummm that other one on TV that was a bit like start trek...um, dunno, as you said, it depends some are, some aren't. My point is that science fiction is more acceptin of the idea of psychic power than it is of magic.

Probably because they do have an explanation, no matter how flimsy. Or at least they have some kind of definition, whereas magic is just magic.

 

[Ponch]

Something's just not right about a fairy wielding a light saber...

Then why'd they let Hayden Christensen use one? BAM!!

But seriously, I believe that Simon R. Green's Nightside series of novels sort of blends them together; mostly, it's magic, but technology always makes an appearance.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

40k is actually pretty fantastical when you think about it...

But yeah the genre basically already exists, as people have already said.

 

[Regna]

I think Final Fantasy on more then one ocasion has mixed Science Fiction with Magic
Like Technology the uses Magic to power it....
Like the Mako Cannons from FF7
Or the Spinning Ship School from that FF game with Squall in it..

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Probably because they do have an explanation, no matter how flimsy. Or at least they have some kind of definition, whereas magic is just magic.

Not to mention that magic is associated with primitive belief systems and ignorance of science.

 

[SonicWaffle]

It was explained that sometime in the 21st century a slayer and her friends (most likely Buffy) basically wiped out most vampires. That's most likely the cause of the lack of Slayers for a while, the fact that they were just unneeded.

I'd buy into that a lot more if she actually still killed vampires

Since season 3, maybe season 4, vampires have been very much in the background (mostly as mooks or quick filler to be dispatched easily) and Buffy changed from being the Vampire Slayer to pretty much just being the Slayer. It's been all about the demons ever since. With the exception of the Turok-Han, maybe, but they were more like demons than the show's traditional vampires.

While I'm on the topic, why was she even called the Vampire Slayer (in-universe, I mean, other than it just being a cool name for a show) when the stated purpose behind the creation of the Slayers was to kill demons? It always bugged me - "We have created you to fight great darkness, scary monsters of all kinds. However, we'll call you a vampire slayer, because what's more intimidating than being known as the girl who kills those weak minor demons? Nothing, that's what!"

 

[SonicWaffle]

About the first part, well, with an entire slayer army, killing basically everything evil is quite likely.

I'm less sure about that. They appear to have made truces with at least some factions of demons as seen in the...first issue, maybe? I don't really remember. Not to mention the fact that, however many of them there are, they will still be outnumbered because of how easy it is for demons to pop in from other dimensions. Hell, one vampire could sire hundreds of people in a week if they chose to.

As for the second, something tells me that the Slayer was originally made to deal with vamps, but things got more complicated. That, or a Watcher scare tactic. Make them think they can only take the little guys or the Slayer will figure out that our entire organization is dependent on her, and we can't fight.

From what I remember, when Buffy went through the shadow-puppet portal thing, the first Watchers told her that they infused a girl with demon powers, so that she could fight the demons. This being Ye Olden Dayes, actual demons would have been a much bigger worry than measly vampires, which anyone can kill if they know where the heart is or even just run into the daylight.

The Watcher organization was centred around the Slayer, but they weren't dependent on her. Remember the wetwork team from season...3? Not only did they have their own guys who were trained to fight demons, they had guys ready to take down a Slayer if need be. From all the hints in the early seasons, the Watchers had a lot of fingers in a lot of pies, much like Wolfram & Hart, but working for the other side. It wouldn't be in their best interest to repress their most valuable asset though, convince her she's weak and then send her off to fight world-ending threats.

 

[mexicola]

Because it can be challenging to pull it off without making a huge pile of excrement out of it. But I've read some really good books with elements of both, for example: The Book of the New Sun series (which is arguably pure sci-fi but when it starts off it's much more fantasy looking with a lot of common elements there, it's a mind blowing series in any case) and then there is Chronicles of Amber which is-in-your-face fantasy but parts of it (parallel realities) are sort of explained other then "the wizard did it!".

 

[Mr Thin]

They don't and they're not.

See the Artemis Fowl book series, Warhammer 40K, really any game that has magic and laser guns.

It would be nice to see a bit more of it though.

More fantascifi!

 

[Nimzar]

They don't...

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

 

[DrMetal]

40k

Nuff said