Why do some people consider Alistair from Dragon Age Origins to be whiny or "emo"? (spoilers)

[lucky_sharm]

Preface: I <3 Alistair

... but he is a whiner.

Spoiler: especially here

This is cemented for me by his reaction to the very reasonable alternative to beheading the former hero-gone-stupid in front of the assembled nobility of Ferelden and y'know, maybe getting another warden in the process, which might come in handy given there's only 3 in the whole Blight stricken country and the odds of all of us dying to the Archdemon are astronomically high

Spoiler: and here

His reaction to the death of Isolde and/or Connor should you not have the happy-time option of going to the Circle for help if they have been cleansed already is pretty over the top as well, given the obvious impossibility of the situation. Granted, he apologies, but it's still pretty high drama

The mourning for Duncan in the first few segments of the game is understandable, but he doesn't seem to ever let it go - and lest we forget, he knew the guy for all of 6 months. He's much less upset about his 10+ year father figure in Eamon lying on his death bed than he is about a war-buddy who "rescued" him from... being a Templar, which is apparently a fate worse than death (?) No idea why he's got that juxtaposition of emotional priorities, maybe transference, but even that's a bit of a stretch to me.

Again - I love Alistair, big time. Most of my Wardens romanced him (except the non-human ones, after I go my heart smashed to pieces the first time with my Elf Mage... who he promised to love forever and ever...

Spoiler

and then dropped like a bad habit the minute the crown was hovering over his head, in front of all of our friends... because I was an Elf and a Mage, which he knew already. Ass

I guess I would say that Alistair isn't so much "whiny" as he is unreasonable in his expectations of the Warden, but doesn't really live up to those high standards of behavior he expects himself. He expects the Warden to be the best, most upstanding person possible, but when he hits a wall with a hard choice, he bails. He bails on responsibility when Duncan dies and the group needs a leader, he bails on the Warden romantically if the going gets tough, he bails on the whole group if one particular decision doesn't go his way. He isn't made of the same stuff he expects the Warden to be made of - maybe he wants to be, maybe that's what he aspires to, but it isn't what he is - yet.

Doesn't mean I don't think he's still a good guy, but there's definitely a downside to the character if you don't play in a way to have his best side always showing.

This. I always called him a man-child. He shirks responsibility and is prone to temper tantrums.

Spoiler

I've been a Grey Warden for a day and Alistair dumps the responsibility of leading us and gathering an army onto me because he doesn't like to lead. This doesn't mean that he won't second guess every decision I make. And the bit with Loghain is the final straw. My Warden had nothing against Loghain personally, and getting another Warden and sparing a national war hero seemed like a pretty good move. But little Alistair wanted his revenge. Oh, and he changed his mind, he wanted to be king now too. It is his fault that he is hanging from a noose. Though, if you spare him, he becomes a drunk who wallows in self-pity for the rest of his life. I guess I did him a favor. And he dumps you if you are an elf and mage? Wow, add that to the list. At least Morrigan had a reason other than "politically inconvenient".

As for you first point. He had protagonist vision and saw the cameraa floating above your head. How did you not hate Loghain. He could have helped the king destroy the darkspwn but instead he pussies out and lets the king die. What's there stopping him from doing that to you? Loghain is an ass and deserved to die.

Loghain had no reason to actually attack with his forces. He made a judgement call. He thought that they were going to lose the battle. He warned the King not to go to the front lines. Was it a bit dirty? Yes. But his whole goal was winning the war. Not playing hero.

And I suppose putting a price on your head and hiring professional assassins to hunt you down was a perfectly reasonable decision to?
Loghain's decisions had nothing to do with what was best for Fareldan. It was about not having to deal with those damn dirty foreigners who were once his slavers.

From his perspective it was perfectly reasonable, he didn't know wardens were necessary to defeat the blight and their versions of the events at Ostagar would make those who followed Cailan unlikely to fall in line under him. With the wardens out of the way he thought he could defeat the blight, since afterall he is a strategist and he was willing to do whatever it took to defend ferelden from the blight (offer the circle more autonomy, allow the actions of the tevinter slavers etc.)

As for his views on Orlais they would seem to be somewhat clouding his judgement, unless you play the return to ostagar dlc and see the letters between cailan and the empress. Considering politically Orlais wanted to assimilate ferelden it's not unimaginable that in a weakened state Orlais may have attempted to simply seize control if losses were too significant during the blight.

This is some inteeresting insight to be sure but it does nothing to explain why loghain makes extra special sure that every last damn warden is dead.

It was actually Arl Howe that did most of the Warden hunting. He's the one who hired the Crows and set up the fake Warden recruitment poster.

 

[templar1138a]

Wait, since when do people think Alistair is emo?

Actually, he's one of my favorites to have around. His facetious nature compliments my own, but as you said, he has a well-made and complex personality. I married him as a female character and considered him my best friend as a male character. When I chose to let Loghain live and had to allow Alistair's execution, I felt genuinely hurt by the scowl he gave me as he was being dragged off. When I sacrificed myself to slay the Archdemon so he could survive and be Fereldan's King, I could tell he appreciated everything I'd done and everything I was to him during my funeral.

When I think about it, Alistair is the best damn NPC I've ever met. Just look at my phrasing; I'm referring to him as if he's a real person! I may not like Dragon Age: Origins's gameplay (I much preferred that of Dragon Age 2), but I think I'm going to do another run through it just so I can team up with him again.

Spoiler: Here's to you, buddy.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Preface: I <3 Alistair

... but he is a whiner.

Spoiler: especially here

This is cemented for me by his reaction to the very reasonable alternative to beheading the former hero-gone-stupid in front of the assembled nobility of Ferelden and y'know, maybe getting another warden in the process, which might come in handy given there's only 3 in the whole Blight stricken country and the odds of all of us dying to the Archdemon are astronomically high

Spoiler: and here

His reaction to the death of Isolde and/or Connor should you not have the happy-time option of going to the Circle for help if they have been cleansed already is pretty over the top as well, given the obvious impossibility of the situation. Granted, he apologies, but it's still pretty high drama

The mourning for Duncan in the first few segments of the game is understandable, but he doesn't seem to ever let it go - and lest we forget, he knew the guy for all of 6 months. He's much less upset about his 10+ year father figure in Eamon lying on his death bed than he is about a war-buddy who "rescued" him from... being a Templar, which is apparently a fate worse than death (?) No idea why he's got that juxtaposition of emotional priorities, maybe transference, but even that's a bit of a stretch to me.

Again - I love Alistair, big time. Most of my Wardens romanced him (except the non-human ones, after I go my heart smashed to pieces the first time with my Elf Mage... who he promised to love forever and ever...

Spoiler

and then dropped like a bad habit the minute the crown was hovering over his head, in front of all of our friends... because I was an Elf and a Mage, which he knew already. Ass

I guess I would say that Alistair isn't so much "whiny" as he is unreasonable in his expectations of the Warden, but doesn't really live up to those high standards of behavior he expects himself. He expects the Warden to be the best, most upstanding person possible, but when he hits a wall with a hard choice, he bails. He bails on responsibility when Duncan dies and the group needs a leader, he bails on the Warden romantically if the going gets tough, he bails on the whole group if one particular decision doesn't go his way. He isn't made of the same stuff he expects the Warden to be made of - maybe he wants to be, maybe that's what he aspires to, but it isn't what he is - yet.

Doesn't mean I don't think he's still a good guy, but there's definitely a downside to the character if you don't play in a way to have his best side always showing.

This. I always called him a man-child. He shirks responsibility and is prone to temper tantrums.

Spoiler

I've been a Grey Warden for a day and Alistair dumps the responsibility of leading us and gathering an army onto me because he doesn't like to lead. This doesn't mean that he won't second guess every decision I make. And the bit with Loghain is the final straw. My Warden had nothing against Loghain personally, and getting another Warden and sparing a national war hero seemed like a pretty good move. But little Alistair wanted his revenge. Oh, and he changed his mind, he wanted to be king now too. It is his fault that he is hanging from a noose. Though, if you spare him, he becomes a drunk who wallows in self-pity for the rest of his life. I guess I did him a favor. And he dumps you if you are an elf and mage? Wow, add that to the list. At least Morrigan had a reason other than "politically inconvenient".

As for you first point. He had protagonist vision and saw the cameraa floating above your head. How did you not hate Loghain. He could have helped the king destroy the darkspwn but instead he pussies out and lets the king die. What's there stopping him from doing that to you? Loghain is an ass and deserved to die.

Loghain had no reason to actually attack with his forces. He made a judgement call. He thought that they were going to lose the battle. He warned the King not to go to the front lines. Was it a bit dirty? Yes. But his whole goal was winning the war. Not playing hero.

And I suppose putting a price on your head and hiring professional assassins to hunt you down was a perfectly reasonable decision to?
Loghain's decisions had nothing to do with what was best for Fareldan. It was about not having to deal with those damn dirty foreigners who were once his slavers.

From his perspective it was perfectly reasonable, he didn't know wardens were necessary to defeat the blight and their versions of the events at Ostagar would make those who followed Cailan unlikely to fall in line under him. With the wardens out of the way he thought he could defeat the blight, since afterall he is a strategist and he was willing to do whatever it took to defend ferelden from the blight (offer the circle more autonomy, allow the actions of the tevinter slavers etc.)

As for his views on Orlais they would seem to be somewhat clouding his judgement, unless you play the return to ostagar dlc and see the letters between cailan and the empress. Considering politically Orlais wanted to assimilate ferelden it's not unimaginable that in a weakened state Orlais may have attempted to simply seize control if losses were too significant during the blight.

This is some inteeresting insight to be sure but it does nothing to explain why loghain makes extra special sure that every last damn warden is dead.

Actually, just you and Alistair. You happened to be the only two to survive the battle. And, at least, Alistair is going to give Loghain hell/start a coup.

 

[Zydrate]

He was, as others have put it, "tolerable". His main complaints had merit. Angst regarding being a bastard is a common theme (I believe people enjoy Jon Snow, though to be fair he's not as vocal). And Morrigan is indeed untrustworthy, which he also vocalizes (And basically turns out to be right).

Ten years ago, people would have referred to him as "tortured hero". Now? He's emo, apparently.

He was my favorite in DA:O. Broke my heart to see him as a drunk in DA2 :'(

He's the King in a couple of my saves. He does pretty well.

 

[Fuhrlock]

And Morrigan is indeed untrustworthy, which he also vocalizes (And basically turns out to be right).

I don't think its fair to call Morrigan untrustworthy. She has an ulterior motive and something to personally gain from doing so, which if anything with hindsight gives her even more reason to want to make sure the warden is successful. Just because her motivation is self-fish doesn't mean that she is anyless trust worthy than an assassin formerly sent to kill you or a potentially dillusional chantry sister who believe the Maker told her to fight the blight.


I don't even think her actions, in running off with the child, would even serve to classify her as untrustworthy as she makes it clear when she makes the offer what the terms will be (allowing the warden to refuse if they so desire) which she sticks to. Then in the witch hunt dlc instead of just leaving via the Eluvian she waits for the warden to try and give some explaination (and even allow a male character to even come with her).

Her actions are constantly mysterious suspicious or even manipulative, but she never shows to be untrustworthy as she only serves to help the warden.

 

[Zydrate]

Ah. I haven't played any DA-DLC, but Morrigan, unless romanced, constantly brought up my "Obviously evil" flags.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

He's probably one of my favorite Bioware characters to date.

Definitely. I love Alister. He was my bro in Origins.

Morrigan, Alister and Sten. A fuckin' dream team.

Great. Now I need to reinstall the game.

Weren't 2 handed weapons broken in DA:O? Did they patch them?

Both Greatswords and Longswords were busted if you have the Warden's Keep DLC. Especially Greatswords. Starfang is quite easily the most powerful sword in the game, and obtained simply by completing Warden's Keep, which can be done the moment you leave Lothering. Longsword version is beaten only by a properly runed Marric's Sword, being used against Darkspawn. As for patching their OPness, doubtful. I think Bioware's done patching DA:O at this point.

Alistair is quite easily one of my favorite characters in Dragon Age, right next to Morrigan. My party always consists me me, Alistair, Morrigan and either Shale or Zevran, depending on what class my Warden is rolling. I usually have the most fun rolling a 2H Greatsword Warrior. The Warrior Warden I carried all the way to the end of Awakening could dole out ~200-300 per strike due to my Berserker/Reaver/Spirit Warrior class combinations. And FAST.

...But I digress, I never found Alistair to be nearly as whiny as people seem to think. His sarcasm and general humor always gave me good laughs, and he was easily a staple in my team. Not to mention, Alistair can be pretty epic when he wants to be. He was definitely epic before the Battle of Denerim.