Why do some people think free healthcare is bad?

[emeraldrafael]

Money.

And abuse. Its like um... um... wellfare. yeah, i know i butchered that, but i never had to spell it before. People will just abuse it.

Also, think of it this way. With Free (universal, its about the same thing), Health Care, people with paper cuts will be given priority over those with stuff like missing limbs just cuase they got there first. Oka, thats an extreme example, but the problem will arise with over populated and how "fair" admittance will be compared to severity and who was there first. I'm assuming you mean America, so you know there are people in this country who will have something like a broken arm, and because of free health care they will arrive at a hospital and have to wait. Then, when its there turn, and there's one room left, a woman who's missing the entirety of her arm will run in screaming for help, and the person who the broken arm will say they need the attention first, and that they were at the hospital first.

And you cant say that we'll still go by severity, because that wont happen. Hospitals will have to enact their own policies, and if they do something by severity, that means that if a room is needed, and someone who is brain dead is taking up a room, they'll be moved, cause chances are low of them coming back.

 

[Wolfenbarg]

You have to remember that that is the decision of politicians, not citizens. Most citizens aren't exactly thrilled with the public image of the US, and would prefer if there was a scaling back of the military if only to improve our standing with other countries. Politicians on the other hand see the military as this magic wand that stimulates the economy. No joke, if you downscaled the military industrial complex to levels comparable of other western nations, not only government expenditures would lower. It's a broken spiral, but it's a sad fact that spending money on the military pretty much equates to spending money on the economy, while spending money on schools doesn't.

The problem with the idea that military spending stimulates the economy is that it hasn't been true since after World War 2. WW2 military spending may have been what ultimately brought us out of the Great Depression, but with the way that our military is globalized its just not the case any more.

The largest arms producing company in the world is from the United Kingdom. A large part of the military equipment used in the United States comes from Germany, Italy, and Belgium. The vast majority of weapons that are actually made in the United States are exported for profit.

Yes, cutting military expenditures would end up causing people to lose jobs - but the whole idea would be to use the income recovered from the military to fund other jobs, such as government health care professionals.

There are a great deal of defense contractors that work in tandem with arms producers across the world though. Government expenditures do increase the GDP of the US by quite a margin. It's just another bubble this country has become fond of, only we lack the enemies to sustain it.

I'm not defending that position per se, I'm just stating why politicians go nuts about military spending. There are quite a few that seem to want to create a similar kind of bubble for medical care, which while better than the destructoid bubble, it's ultimately not a good thing. There are sustainable options that other countries have explored that we're being pointed to as great examples, but they're not implementing them. Instead they're looking at insane licensing policies that are like a bastard child of the Canadian system and our own that will make us look even more backwards to the rest of the world than we do now.

It also doesn't help that you need capital to start this kind of system. It's not one you can implement by credit. Selling more bonds won't buy healthcare, but Washington seems to think it will.

 

[wadark]

Money is not infinite. End of story. Free healthcare is great on paper but its fraught with limitations. The US government for instance can't afford to pay for 300 million people worth of healthcare.

Yeah, we need all that money to buy more bombs for when the USSR attacks.

Precisely. And if we're feeling bold, maybe other things like paying off that 32 trillion dollar debt or whatever.

 

[dcrane]

Rule #1 - no such thing as free healthcare
Rule #2 - pooling money from X # of millions of people to pay for "healthcare for all" (i.e., single payer) almost always has better outcomes in terms of quality of life (especially with the new personal bankruptcy laws in the US)

Obviously, millionaires can ignore rule #2.

 

[Terminate421]

Because technically it isn't free, and even then you have to have it anyway.

 

[Terminate421]

Money is not infinite. End of story. Free healthcare is great on paper but its fraught with limitations. The US government for instance can't afford to pay for 300 million people worth of healthcare.

Yeah, we need all that money to buy more bombs for when the USSR attacks.

Precisely. And if we're feeling bold, maybe other things like paying off that 32 trillion dollar debt or whatever.

We could start by dropping the penny, make them into bullets from now on.

Bullets are way more useful than pennies anyway.

 

[MelziGurl]

Money.

And abuse. Its like um... um... wellfare. yeah, i know i butchered that, but i never had to spell it before. People will just abuse it.

Also, think of it this way. With Free (universal, its about the same thing), Health Care, people with paper cuts will be given priority over those with stuff like missing limbs just cuase they got there first. Oka, thats an extreme example, but the problem will arise with over populated and how "fair" admittance will be compared to severity and who was there first. I'm assuming you mean America, so you know there are people in this country who will have something like a broken arm, and because of free health care they will arrive at a hospital and have to wait. Then, when its there turn, and there's one room left, a woman who's missing the entirety of her arm will run in screaming for help, and the person who the broken arm will say they need the attention first, and that they were at the hospital first.

And you cant say that we'll still go by severity, because that wont happen. Hospitals will have to enact their own policies, and if they do something by severity, that means that if a room is needed, and someone who is brain dead is taking up a room, they'll be moved, cause chances are low of them coming back.

Yes there can be long waits, but I don't know where you get the idea that it's first come first serve. Especially with an extreme example such as the one you provided.

 

[incal11]

I simply said bumping up taxes is not one such system.

There's no other way for healthcare, so the pros outweight the cons.

They said you couldn't go to the moon, too.

We learn as we grow.

If you mean you believe there are alternative to healthcare which is just as good, that doesn't involve a tax, and you have the beginning of an idea, do tell.
Otherwise I stand by what I first posted in this thread, an inconsequential tax is well forth it as it fights the consequences of poverty and thus benefits everyone on the long run. While the "you get what you earn" mindset is thoughless and self centered.

 

[incal11]

double post sorry

 

[emeraldrafael]

Snip

Its the only real way for things to be "fair".

and lets face it, Americans are not people known for generosity and i have lost my faith in humanity, so I dont see some people giving up their wait just because someone else walks in after the person has been waiting for a long time, regardless of the severity.

 

[conflictofinterests]

WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY FOR IT?!

SNIP
Because the next step in human behavioral evolution is the altruistic supporting and loving of those who are in need.
SNIP

Whoa, whoa, whoa. NEXT step?

I just came from my Biological Anthropology class, and in there they explained that one of the possible circumstances that may have lead to the rise of Hominids (Lucy and her ilk, and after a while, us) was that the parents may have gone out to gather and then bring food back, and guess what, no regurgitation capabilities, no cheek pouches, nothing but front feet, aka HANDS.

Bipedalism? BIPEDALISM IS A FORM OF SOCIALISM! LET YOUR WIFE AND BABY GET THEIR OWN DAMN FOOD, THEY HAVE LEGS!!!

I was speaking of ALTRUISM. Early hominids were not altruistic in their behavior. When you support your own family you are helping yourself by ensuring your genetic lineage continues. True altruism is helping others for no other reason than it improves humanity as a whole. Maybe your teacher will cover that in the next lecture. ARRRRRRRRRRGH!

SNIP

Yeah, it's reciprocal altruism, but hey, you gotta start somewhere right? Anyways, after that you got Neanderthals caring for their sick and elderly, and that's pretty damn close to true altruism. If that isn't enough for you, I'd ask if there really was such a thing as true altruism? Ah, but that way lies cynicism. Suffice to say, altruism (albeit in a less "pure" form) was alive and well long before we had words for it.

 

[Jake the Snake]

Free health care is nice, but it gets harder to manage the larger the country is. I am for it personally, but its defining what is covered and how much it costs each person is tricky.

My advice? Move to Denmark. Seriously, those Danes have everything figured out and are laughing at how stupid we are. (Well maybe not cuz they're nicer than that...)

 

[SaintMorose]

People really think they would be paying more money on health care under a public system?

Your government alone already spends much more per person than the Canadian government does. And that doesn't even take into account the premiums families/individuals pay to the insurance companies. If you factor those in you guys pay over twice the money we do and still have to get clearance from someone for a procedure that isn't immediately life-threatening (unless willing to pay out of pocket).

Some people are so greedy they cant even see when they are being ripped off.

Not only that but they believe all the lies about the Canadian system... lol at the people saying that Canadians go south for major procedures. We go south for minor things that we are wait listed for to take advantage of a system you guys put in place but cant afford to use.

Anyone who said "major" better not be referring to that woman with a cyst that she claimed was a life-threatening brain cancer and now is spending her time suing the government for not paying for those medical expenses.

In terms of life threatening procedures Canada does better than the US during nights and weekends. Sadly taking care of everyone after all the cuts we've had to health spending does mean you might need to wait a couple hours in the ER if you don't require immediate attention.
But Ive been in Canadian ER needing surgery despite looking like a perfectly healthy kid and 4 hours later I got the surgery I desperately needed (stomach ulcer virtually no risk of complications at a good hospital if you get it done in 6 hours).

Our doctors are still some of our top income earners as they should be. The only problem as stated is you can't always trust the government to run things as well as possible. But I'm all for reading up, voting, protesting, and doing my part in keeping the government honest.

If your government isn't capable of much maybe you should stop electing Jindal, Palin, and Bachmann. Keep electing people who say the government does nothing right to government and the government will continue to do nothing right.
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b6BWcdf-MI for anyone of you who want to know what your officials really think about government health-care (so long as its not for you).

Lastly a superpower can only crumble from within and the best way to do that is by not investing in your own people. Health care and awareness is a gigantic issue that effects everyone don't be so short sighted to think its all about you.

The Canadian system isn't perfect but I'm very happy with it; hopefully my friends down south will have access to a system focused on treating it's citizens rather than exploiting them.

/rant

 

[theriddlen]

I don't think that "free" healthcare is bad, i know it.

It's the cause of the biggest health problem in my country - hypochondria.

That's what you see when you go to doctor in Poland.
And no, they are not ill, but bored and looking forward to speak with their very old friends and doctor, just like they do every day.

 

[TeeBs]

Because it kills Grandma, and other uneducated, fear related opinions!!!
You must hate Grandma.