Why do some people think free healthcare is bad?

[conflictofinterests]

SNIP

I see where you're going, but I don't see where you've been.

Chimpanzees are our closest living biological relative right? Did early hominids live in fission-fusion societies like modern chimps currently do? If so, division and competition is long back in the line, much before the level of reciprocal altruism which may have lead to bipedalism. Since Neanderthals began taking care of their sick and elderly, and since anatomically modern humans began doing that, they never really ceased taking care of their sick and elderly.

Admittedly, progress probably stopped for a while, and the process of moving from band, to tribe, to chiefdom, to state certainly did engender a lot to engender hostility between factions as work became more specialized and rank could be passed on from parent to child.

I posit, however, that humans are more altruistic (if reciprocally altruistic) than antagonistic. How many men does it take to build a skyscraper? How many men does it take to feed a nation? What are feelings of care for a group you don't necessarily share genes with? What is adoption?

Yeah, U.S. culture today encourages us to look out for number one, but who among us has not shared their lunch with a platonic friend even though there was only enough to get one of you actually full?

 

[Lybs]

Well technically it is "free" because the government pays for it with your tax money but also here in Sweden where I live we have Insurance that also helps to handle some issues like if you get injured on your way to school or work you don't need to pay for the ambulance ride to the hospital because you family insurance covers it.
As for why USA don't have it I'd say because of insurance-jeopardy and that insurance companies pay some % of the economy but I don't see why it should be a problem to fix it since the US had free health care when Kennedy was president, it was that dickhead Nixon you can thank that it got jeopardized

 

[Wicky_42]

I guess you don't think it's fair that you pay for the police, even if you don't need them? Or that you might pay for an entire state's worth of roads, but only drive into town everday? After all, you're not using those services, why should you pay for them? Oh, you just pay your taxes and those services are there if you need them? Huh. How do you think nationalised healthcare works, then?

I would be ecstatic if I could get away without paying taxes. As of now, the only thing I really use from taxes is basic infrastructure, and I would gladly pay individually to private companies to provide those services, if it meant I could not pay taxes.

How much more do you think you would be charged if you had to individually pay for the roads you used, where there would be tolls ever stretch or something? That wouldn't be a more efficient system, or a more fair one, or a more useful one. Live in a smaller town? you'd have to pay more to use the roads because there'd be fewer using them.

If you privatise everything then instead of the load being spread across the majority (just as insurance does), it ends up weighing heaviest on the minority who simply cannot afford to foot the bill. Plus, what with your other point being about fear of the gov. controlling your services, would you actually feel safer with a profit-mongering corporation having control over your services? Seriously?

 

[Mr. Socky]

It basically means that middle-class people get to pay for healthcare for poor people and wait in line for five years to get a basic check-up.

..Where in the hells of a such a dysfunctional country did you hear this from, exactly? In Canada, we'd like to call this statement by a sweet few words namely "That is bullshit".

Actually, I heard this from a Canadian. Irony.

 

[Eggsnham]

The Adults: "Hurrrrrr. Socialisms are bad. The cold war era told me so. Hurrrrrrr."

"I don't like Obama, and I sure as hell don't like taxes, therefore anybody who's poor can just suck it up and wait for their terminal cancer to pass."

"That commercial said it's bad, therefore it probably is!"

Kids: "Hurrrrrr. Socialisms are bad. My dad told me so. Hurrrrrrr."

"My parents don't like Obama, and they sure as hell don't like taxes, therefore anybody who's poor can just suck it up and wait for their terminal cancer to pass."

"That commercial said it's bad, therefore it probably is!"


This is what I've basically gathered from listening to the many unnecessary debates on socialized health care the last couple years.

As you can see, the vast majority of us, regrettably, are idiots.

It's basically down to political bias, dislike of taxes, and blatant ignorance.

 

[Cerrida]

Socialism, not communism. The Nazis were socialists; the Chinese and Russians were communist. The difference is that in socialism, the government controls the private money. You have government corporations, one giant government-run mall, etc. Classes still exist, you just give your money to different people. Communism is a classless society in which everyone has the same thing and no one's allowed any extras or freedom.
I'm against socialist health care because I believe the government should be small enough to be held accountable. I don't think the people who drafted the Constitution wanted another giant government that would take away their freedom. I hate health care as it stands, especially since Obama's about to make us all have it, but I don't think this is the answer. Regulate the insurance companies, streamline the billing process, and squash fake malpractice suits.

Here's a fun link for some extra reading: http://boortz.com/

Where are your getting your facts? Britian has been a socailist state since the end of WWII and the formation of the welfare state. We still have private enterprise, we still have private property, were less socalist since Thatcher but no political party or coalition will undo the welfare state because they know it would be political suicide, the debate now is to how far the borders of the welfare state should extend, with the conservatives prefering a more market driven local system to Labours more centralist position.

I don't remember mentioning Britain. I was simply trying to correct the people who say that national health care is communist, not socialist.

 

[b1zarr0]

I dont see why we can't offer American quality health care at canadian prices. and fuck off about the whole who's gonna pay for it act. How about the government uses their money making machines to pay the doctors and the doctors just offer some damn free health care.



and about the economy; well that would be fixed if whoever was running the server that details America's bank account would get off their ass and add a few more Zeros to the total available balance. and if any country got upity about where the extra funds came from we could tell them to fuck off and shove a crossaint up their ass

 

[Imat]

Because the poor should pull themselves up by their bootstraps or learn their place in the world.
/Republican
Anyways, some would say costs, but the ones who cry loudest about costs in America (at least the ones in nationally elected offices) don't give a damn about cost and want tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts while expecting to pay down the deficit while allowing the rich to hoard/not invest their money into the economy (whether they should do that or not is debatable but if you care so much about deficits it would be in your interest to get money to flow into the system in one of the few places where there's money left, especially in a country with so much wealth disparity that 2% have 85-95% of the wealth).
I'm also kinda pissed at the Democrat's healthcare bill. First they threw out the really good option to compromise with Republicans (single payer), then Obama did a backroom deal with insurance companies (there goes the public option), then we get this really reallly reallllllllllyyyyyyyy conservative healthcare bill (basically the same thing Republicans wanted to pass in 1994) and people are still like "hurr durr socialism". That and people whining about being forced to buy health insurance because they apparently want everybody else to foot their bill out of their taxes when they can't pay for it (one of the things they attack healthcare reform proponents for no less), not to mention the individual mandate was a Republican ideal.

So as for America the real reasons are:
Red baiting
Ignorance
Apathy/Sociopathy by corrupt or indifferent politicians

Added note: If it's an emergency, EMTALA makes sure they go to an emergency room, but if they can't pay for it, you eventually foot the medical bills out of your taxes anyways. HCR attempts to streamline that cost and makes things more efficient.

Those aren't the reasons, but you're allowed to follow that second one and think they're real.

The real problem with healthcare is the ridiculous amount of hoarding research companies do with their products. They're allowed to sell the stuff at huge markups because 1. Nobody else has it, and it has to come from somewhere, and 2. They spent the time and money to create it, they can do with it as they will. Its a monopoly that hasn't been given a second thought. Get this changed, and healthcare will get better. Or at least more manageable.

 

[Imat]

I dont see why we can't offer American quality health care at canadian prices. and fuck off about the whole who's gonna pay for it act. How about the government uses their money making machines to pay the doctors and the doctors just offer some damn free health care.



and about the economy; well that would be fixed if whoever was running the server that details America's bank account would get off their ass and add a few more Zeros to the total available balance. and if any country got upity about where the extra funds came from we could tell them to fuck off and shove a crossaint up their ass

Money making machines means printing money, correct? That leads to inflation, and eventually hyper-inflation. Much as I want to see the dollar go the way of the deutchmark, I don't. Inflation is bad for everybody.

Of course, that implies that you were being serious in your post. And unless you have zero understanding of the monetary system, you could not have been serious.

 

[Admiral Stukov]

As a Canadian, I'm glad I have it. Too bad we're all poverty stricken and crippled by taxes in this communist dystopia. /lol

Yeah. It's a good thing that the "no subsidized healthcare" policy kept America from being hit by the recession.

This. Well I'm from sweden but the gist of it is still true for me.

 

[spartan231490]

Do you want to pay for it?

Money has to come from somewhere.

And if you do, then please go to a hospital and start handing out cash - some people need it real bad.

As harsh as that sounds, it is simply how it is. Life isn't perfect.

More or less this. Also, as someone who has family that work in healthcare, free healthcare is ungodly expensive for this reason: People who don't have to pay for healthcare, use the ER for the most retarded crap. My mother, an RN, routinely sees people come to ER with bruises and minor head colds because they don't have to pay anything for a visit. Some of these people don't even have cars and call an AMBULANCE to bring them to the hospital for a sore throat, and an ambulance has to come when it's called. A friend of one of my older relatives has diabetus, but is too lazy to cook so if someone doesn't come to her house to make her lunch, she calls 911, and has an ambulance take her to the hospital, LIKE IT'S SOME KIND OF GOD DAMN DRIVE THROUGH RESTURANT, and then has to have a nurse or doctor take her home. Free national health care would cost this country an ungodly amount of money.

I think you would get a lot further if you passed a law capping the amount that health insurance could charge, and limited liability for malpractice lawsuits so hospitals don't have to pay as much for insurance. Maybe institute a national health care that payed like, 1/4 or at most 1/2 and have private insurance pay the rest, with a mandatory $5 dollar copay to reduce the people who go for stupid shit. This would reduce the cost of health care, and give at least some care to everyone, and reduce proffitteering by the insurance companies. You need to reduce the cost of health care, not give free insurance. Health care costs are rising at a rediculous rate every year, mostly because of malpractice lawsuits. Make it harder to get a med liscene, and limit malpractice liability, that would solve most of the health care probs in america.

 

[soulsabr]

Because the government can't even run itself half decently (few governments can). I can't imagine how it would run healthcare.

Well, I do have roads and highways and a postal system and a military doing god-knows-what. They must have had SOME managerial success to accomplish these things. Just because we're unsatisfied in general doesn't mean the government isn't kicking ass at some things.

It could be worse. We could be Mexico.

Give them time, they can only trash our economy so fast.

 

[Spacewolf]

i think its a generally good system because it encorages the welfare of the patient rahter than just making money off their insurence, i read a cracked artical recently that was talking about how healthcare often caused as many problems as it caused and for nearly all of the points i just thought well that doesnt happen in a govement backed healthcare system

 

[ReincarnatedFTP]

Because the poor should pull themselves up by their bootstraps or learn their place in the world.
/Republican
Anyways, some would say costs, but the ones who cry loudest about costs in America (at least the ones in nationally elected offices) don't give a damn about cost and want tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts while expecting to pay down the deficit while allowing the rich to hoard/not invest their money into the economy (whether they should do that or not is debatable but if you care so much about deficits it would be in your interest to get money to flow into the system in one of the few places where there's money left, especially in a country with so much wealth disparity that 2% have 85-95% of the wealth).
I'm also kinda pissed at the Democrat's healthcare bill. First they threw out the really good option to compromise with Republicans (single payer), then Obama did a backroom deal with insurance companies (there goes the public option), then we get this really reallly reallllllllllyyyyyyyy conservative healthcare bill (basically the same thing Republicans wanted to pass in 1994) and people are still like "hurr durr socialism". That and people whining about being forced to buy health insurance because they apparently want everybody else to foot their bill out of their taxes when they can't pay for it (one of the things they attack healthcare reform proponents for no less), not to mention the individual mandate was a Republican ideal.

So as for America the real reasons are:
Red baiting
Ignorance
Apathy/Sociopathy by corrupt or indifferent politicians

Added note: If it's an emergency, EMTALA makes sure they go to an emergency room, but if they can't pay for it, you eventually foot the medical bills out of your taxes anyways. HCR attempts to streamline that cost and makes things more efficient.

Those aren't the reasons, but you're allowed to follow that second one and think they're real.

The real problem with healthcare is the ridiculous amount of hoarding research companies do with their products. They're allowed to sell the stuff at huge markups because 1. Nobody else has it, and it has to come from somewhere, and 2. They spent the time and money to create it, they can do with it as they will. Its a monopoly that hasn't been given a second thought. Get this changed, and healthcare will get better. Or at least more manageable.

They're the real reasons I've seen play out in public debate amongst protesters and politicians.
I'd like to thank you for actually giving some worthwhile input, but you're one of the few amongst your side who wasn't like "hurr durr socialism!" or "I don't give a damn why should I do anything about it?"
That's assuming you're American and know the American debate on it though. If not, thank God you've never heard the retards scream "GET GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF OF MY MEDICARE (a government program)"

 

[jack583]

I can't speak for everyone, but some people are probably afraid of the government controling thier lives.
But I don't know the actual details of the free health care act/bill, so I can't give any opinion on it being a good idea or not.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

It basically means that middle-class people get to pay for healthcare for poor people and wait in line for five years to get a basic check-up.

..Where in the hells of a such a dysfunctional country did you hear this from, exactly? In Canada, we'd like to call this statement by a sweet few words namely "That is bullshit".

Actually, I heard this from a Canadian. Irony.

Your anecdotal source must have been on the really deep end of the rare shitter, then. I have personally never experienced such a thing, nor has my family or my friends living here.

 

[Iron Criterion]

The UK has free health care yet you end up waiting a very long time (sometimes too long)

Some people will be left out in the cold.

That isn't true, there are extreme cases where that happens sure but generally our health care is second to none. But as you're an American you get your information from your vastly inferior news broadcasting service so I'll let it slide.

 

[Ledan]

!!!!
Seriously, people here are saying people should DIE just because they don't have money....
or be crippled for life? I mean, are you really understanding what you are saying?

Humans have thrived because we take care of our own species, no matter how successful a person is. Why? Because they will end up contributing to society in one way or another, be it through inventions, ideas, art, politics, entertainment, or just taking care of people or teaching people life lessons.

You have no right to condemn others to death + if everyone pitches in with another 1 or ,5 % tax then it is possible to provide basic health care to everyone.

 

[TheUnstoppableRobman]

The main argument against free healthcare is what business students (in america) call the "TANSTAAFL" principal. "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" the money has to come from somewhere, and becasue it has to come from somewhere, where from? Also American healthcare is a for profit industry. It is also the most inginuitive and groundbreaking healthcare program in the world. Inginuity comes from Research and Development which is very very expensive. What is the motivation for continued advances in medicine if the hard work will lead to no benefit? People are incentivised to maximize benefit, and without incentive for advancement there will be no advancement. Free healthcare is not possible or appropriate for America right now. It would be much more prudent to erase one of the major economic lags in the healtcare industry and allow citizens to purchase healthcare from ANY state, not just their home state. Such a restriction limits competition, drives up price, and impedes everyday Americans from getting the services they need. It's unconstitutional if you ask me. More competiton, lower prices, so 50 million Americans don't have to choose healthcare OR groceries.

 

[hermes]

Rich people are afraid that poor people will survive; instead of die of a flu, for example...