Why do we not care about Education ?

[A random person]

For me I think it has to do with how we are taught. We are taught to parrot facts onto a test paper for most of our lives. I know that if you take some courses in college and of course the whole of university that is different, but our general opinion of education is formed in all the years prior to this, in which we are told simple facts that must be remembered word for word to fit with the mark scheme.

There's no understanding. No interest generated. To pass you just have to blindly quote your lessons. Why would anyone enjoy that?

And this is why math is my favorite subject; because you actually think, and at least for me, have fun in the process. Conversely, I hate english (the reading parts; the grammar parts are alright) because it's just an answer search the way it's taught.

I blame standardized testing (and bad teachers, of course).

 

[dazdex]

Well when I was in school it was pretty much " Why the fuck are we learning this (algebra), I'm never going to use this in life this is time I could be spending sitting on a corner drinking and smoking because that's what cool people do."

Ok so I made the end up a little bit but that was pretty much the general view of the students in my year. But what the hell most of the people who had that view are now either pregnant, in a dead end job, got very fat and now no one will touch them (that was directed at those sluts who were considered the "good looking" girls), in prison or dead....
And I left school 3 years ago...and that was before the school went down the toilet.

I can see why they thought that what they were learning was pointless but what do I care, They were pricks

 

[Kogarian]

No one said they did not care

fail thread is fail

I mean do you people just try to make a thread that sounds smart or something?

I like this guy already.

 

[LaughingTarget]

And this is why math is my favorite subject; because you actually think, and at least for me, have fun in the process. Conversely, I hate english (the reading parts; the grammar parts are alright) because it's just an answer search the way it's taught.

I blame standardized testing (and bad teachers, of course).

It depends on the math. Most math is just memorizing the answers, there isn't much thinking involved. Do you know why 2+2=4 or that 2+2 just equals 4? Even the proof behind this (though far more complicated than just knowing the answer) is rote memorization. The only way it isn't just blasting out memorized facts is if you come up with an original mathematical concept or come up with an existing concept independently.

 

[Agayek]

I'm sorry that you find English boring, but do you understand that one of the points of that subject as it is taught in high school - in addition to simply imparting an appreciation for the written word - is to teach you how to write coherently and form a cogent argument? Are these skills not applicable to your chosen field?

If I had my way, I'd never have to write a paper on anything in the professional world. As that's impossible, yes it is somewhat important. That doesn't make it any less of a chore to learn about though. I'm not saying one should disregard all knowledge one doesn't like, far from it for that matter. I'd encourage everyone to learn anything they possibly can, especially while in school and all those resources are readily available.

The problem is that very very few people, and I am certainly not one of them, can motivate themselves to learn something they find boring and/or uninteresting. That's simply human nature. For better or worse, that's the way it is.

If I find a resource for a subject I'm interested in, mainly logic, math, various mythologies, and human history, I will devour it as quickly as I possibly can, and retain the vast majority of the information for years at a time. If it's anything I'm not interested in though, I might read through it if I'm really bored, and it's a crapshoot whether or not I'll remember most of it.

I'm not saying that's a good thing, because honestly I don't think it is. I just think it's part of human nature, and it will be a long time before we can manage any effective changes in that.

I am truly interested in knowing what subjects you would choose to throw out (other than "health," which is indeed often full of misinformation) in order to streamline the public school curriculum. Would you care to share that?

If I could, I would replace all of the public school courses with 4 classes:

1) Logic and Critical thinking
2) Math
3) English/Grammar/Language
4) History

Primary school has no need to teach anything beyond those 4 subjects. Basic up to somewhat complex rules of mathematics and language, world history in a decent amount of detail, and, most importantly, logic.

Teach the kids to think logically and critically, analyzing everything and ultimately teaching them to think for themselves. That, in and of itself, is by far the most important function any school can serve, yet very very few actually do it.

 

[Ace of Spades]

To be honest, I don't give a damn how much I know as long as I make enough money to live comfortably.

 

[Bat Vader]

I value my education. I don' care if other people don't value their education as long as they don't make fun of me for liking school.

 

[Mother Yeti]

I am truly interested in knowing what subjects you would choose to throw out (other than "health," which is indeed often full of misinformation) in order to streamline the public school curriculum. Would you care to share that?

If I could, I would replace all of the public school courses with 4 classes:

1) Logic and Critical thinking
2) Math
3) English/Grammar/Language
4) History

Primary school has no need to teach anything beyond those 4 subjects. Basic up to somewhat complex rules of mathematics and language, world history in a decent amount of detail, and, most importantly, logic.

Teach the kids to think logically and critically, analyzing everything and ultimately teaching them to think for themselves. That, in and of itself, is by far the most important function any school can serve, yet very very few actually do it.

I would argue that logic and critical thinking are already taught to some degree in schools (the good ones, at least - I agree that crappy teachers are a bane of any educational system). What is a mathematical proof if not an exercise in logic? Why are you required to write papers in English and history arguing for a certain point of view, if not to develop your critical thinking skills? And where are the sciences on that list? Surely you agree that scientific literacy is extremely important nowadays.

I am, however, still interested in what you'd want to see in a logic- and critical thinking-specific class. Perhaps teaching kids how to recognize fallacious arguments?

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

Personally, I've never cared about money so all you people going on about "education = money" really make me care even less about my education. Now, I wouldn't mind going through my education for my own personal betterment, but I can't justify spending all that cash just so I can feel better about myself. Ultimately, it just seems worthless.

 

[Iammatt]

I believe pink floyd summed that answer up here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_bvT-DGcWw

and just to be a douche im gonna say

/thread

 

[A random person]

It's not education, the schools are just full of shit. In my experience you could probably cut the week to 3 days if you removed some of the crap (health classes are pure bullshit propaganda, I could teach a far better sex ed curriculum than many current ones if given an hour per group of students, and the curriculum is very slow paced and full of filler).

I am truly interested in knowing what subjects you would choose to throw out (other than "health," which is indeed often full of misinformation) in order to streamline the public school curriculum. Would you care to share that?

Certainly, though for the most part it's adjusting instead of cutting. I'm gonna sound like a stereotypical teen comedy nerd for this, but PE is pretty much a half-hearted attempt at curbing obesity and a place for the fitter students to show off (and a vehicle for our shit sex ed, at least in my school) and a waste of time. Sex ed really could be greatly condensed and improved by talking about condoms and important things instead of the personal relationships bullshit that occupied at least half of my 2-week curriculum (the coach knew it was bullshit). English would have less focus on reading (read: answer hunting) and more on writing good essays/arguments/stories/whatever (I'll admit I'm jaded; I take a very long time to read a short amount since I get distracted or obsessed with memorizing what I'm reading. That last part was probably partly caused by standardized testing). Science won't be the random fact, vocabulary, and pointless project fest it is right now and actually teach you how the natural world works (seriously, making us fill out a hilariously long piece of paper with a timeline with a huge gap is not a good way of teaching the geologic time scale). Math would still be the heaviest subject work-wise, but not the big assignments of doom frequently mocked in school comedies, and they're there to review and explain the next day. All subjects will be taught less with just random assignments (science class poems need to die) and more with actually being taught (I would benefit more from lectures or videos than craploads of worksheets) and meaningful, reasonably sized assignments.

Mostly, three principle rules: work does not equal education (a lot of the assignments are gimmicky and don't teach much of anything), focus on understanding the subject instead of memorizing facts (especially with math), and most importantly, recognize bullshit and cut it out like slow, filler filled curriculum's and stupid mandatory subjects. And yes, that was mostly general improvement, but following that could cut time and make for better education.

Social studies does present a challenge, though, since it mostly is facts.

 

[Nmil-ek]

Personally, I've never cared about money so all you people going on about "education = money" really make me care even less about my education. Now, I wouldn't mind going through my education for my own personal betterment, but I can't justify spending all that cash just so I can feel better about myself. Ultimately, it just seems worthless.

Its generaly people who have yet to experiance the actual working world, you dont go straight from uni/college to a well paid job it takes years, you need luck, you can be extremley well educated but how you handle yourself in an interview makes or breaks your future. Not to mention experiance you are not pick of the litter if you have yet to work, your a runt cold hard truth.

 

[IxionIndustries]

Well, probably because, at least where I live, people still think education is for geeks, and that they can make a living alone being basketball/football all-stars.

 

[Agayek]

I would argue that logic and critical thinking are already taught to some degree in schools (the good ones, at least - I agree that crappy teachers are a bane of any educational system). What is a mathematical proof if not an exercise in logic? Why are you required to write papers in English and history arguing for a certain point of view, if not to develop your critical thinking skills? And where are the sciences on that list? Surely you agree that scientific literacy is extremely important nowadays.

I would agree, except very rarely do students in American schools actually get such assignments. If you're from another country, you are probably correct, but the US public schools simply fail miserably at anything even approaching decent teaching.

Sciences are left off the list because they simply aren't necessary subjects for primary school, they'd be electives they can opt into if they wished, that list is just the "required" classes. Given the chance, I'd offer electives on every subject under the sun, and let the students pick which ones they want to take.

I am, however, still interested in what you'd want to see in a logic- and critical thinking-specific class. Perhaps teaching kids how to recognize fallacious arguments?

Something like that. I haven't put enough thought into it to have an actual curriculum. If I was completely in control, it would probably be mostly giving a problem, situation or something of the like to the students to solve, and then give them a due date for their solution. Any resources they can access they'd be allowed to use.

 

[Satoz]

I want to be knowledgeable,for myself, just like I want to be stronger.I don't want to fall into the sea of mediocrity where I just accept everything that comes my way You see every aspect of me is something that can always be worked on. Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plans are horrifying. If I tell my friend that in a few years all I want to do is odd jobs here and there, or that i want to drive truckload of garbage around, nobody panics. But when I say I wanna take one little step forward, everyone loses their minds!! Introduce a little effort, you upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. And you know the thing about chaos It's fair, you put a little effort in and you get to be one step above the next guy, and the best thing about the next guy is that hes so easy to step all over...

anyways the point is that to me, success requires intelligence, experience and hard work, its not just a game out there. I want to be able to contribute to conversations, i dont want to be that guy who just sits there without an opinion or even worse the one who makes the stupid opinion up without any basis. Thats my personal goal, and you know what, I know school materials can be garbage, but some things are useful. I can use ap psych, I can use french I can use spanish I can use physical education (its nice to be healthy you know) I can use history, I can use economics, I can use understanding of buisness, being on stage acting can help me deliver speeches without fear and conquer stage fright, etc... even if that all means nothing, good grades open up your path, and with everyone worried about job losses and "the economy" you need to have something strong to stand on...

anyways I agree with the guy who said this thread is fail, not everyone thinks education is a joke, and Im pretty sure a fair share can back that up. I dont think its to make people look smart either though, its just alot people get mad that they are pumping out work while others cruise on and act all superior about it. thats what im guessing at least

 

[Sneaky-Pie]

Going to university for graphic design. I'm one of those people who feels they have a pointless job unless I can actually create something.

However, sometimes I feel that I've wasted a lot of money as I easily could have taught myself many fundamentals by just reading the books myself. However, most jobs really look for that piece of paper you get when you graduate. In the end, I know I spent thousands of dollars to get a piece of paper even though I mainly taught myself.

Now I'm depressed.

 

[matnatz]

Brains = Money.

Fixed.

True, but the majority of school subjects are very boring information.

I became much more interested in History, Art and English once I'd left school. When learning about the Aztecs at school it seems like they cut everything interesting out like a beating heart and only left us with the dull information. I'm sure if they looked hard enough they could have found a few other interesting things to teach us about during that period /sarcasm.

We were once taught about country life during WW2. Art is my talent, I found school to be quite useless, you pretty much just parrot back what the teacher tells you. It was a terrible period of my life.

 

[A random person]

And this is why math is my favorite subject; because you actually think, and at least for me, have fun in the process. Conversely, I hate english (the reading parts; the grammar parts are alright) because it's just an answer search the way it's taught.

I blame standardized testing (and bad teachers, of course).

It depends on the math. Most math is just memorizing the answers, there isn't much thinking involved. Do you know why 2+2=4 or that 2+2 just equals 4? Even the proof behind this (though far more complicated than just knowing the answer) is rote memorization. The only way it isn't just blasting out memorized facts is if you come up with an original mathematical concept or come up with an existing concept independently.

Math itself involves actual thinking and some creativity. The way it's taught is just the same bland memorization schools really need to stop doing. My math education, at least in 8th grade (my most recent year. My 7th grade teacher was actually quite good) was about half me figuring out why it works (which is what the curriculum should be).

As for proof that 2+2=4, here's the proof I gave in my 8th grade class (forgot the context):
l l=2. l l l l=4. l l+l l=l l l l. I added 2 to 2 to get 4.
(2) (4) (2) (2) (4)
A crude demonstration, I'll admit, but it explains why quantities when added together make another quantity.

 

[Random Argument Man]

Sheesh, I study in Education. My studies are pretty much the only thing in the center of my world.

Personnaly, I think this world lack ambition. People prefer to live the same routine. Work, drink the weekend, do small talk with everyone and repeat. It's probably why I have some difficulties standing the people around me.