Why does America fear/distrust it's government?

[lSHaDoW-FoXl]

I was flicking through the American health service thread, and noticed that the main argument that the main argument against free healthcare was that they didn't want the government controlling it.
Most American's I've talked to also seem to distrust their government, a lot more than Europe does. Your constitution also seems to have been designed from the ground up to prevent the government from having anything more than a fringe affect on anything.

So, why does America distrust it's government so much more than Europe?

And, for comparison, I live it the UK, and we generally get on ok.

The Government consists of people that are willing to condemn and hurt entire groups of people for the sake of gaining more power for them selves. Speaking as a gay Canadian I always have to put up with these incompetent morons trying to take away Same - Sex marriage. (You know, when we basically just got it.)

So let that just sink in for a moment. After years and years of fighting, we finally accomplish Same - Sex Marriage. And just like that they're trying to take it away from us. And you know what's funny? Despite it saying very clearly that the minority should be protected from the majority my own rights are always at risk. It took around 30 years to acquire the right to marry and yet just like that it can be taken away simply because a few uninformed people disagree with it.

So yes, the government is to be feared/hated. When I see a republican on T.V I can't say 'Well, at least he believes in what he does.' Because I'm not so sure if they do. Most of them don't promote what they believe in, they promote what gets them more power. And what gets them more power is pointing the finger at a certain group of people and saying that they're here to harm you, your children, and your very way of life.

And the uninformed all flock together in unity under false guidence, in hope that their moronic self serving values can be kept. Besides just gay people the government is always trying to ban certain types of music, certain types of movies, certain types of games, and even certain types of books.

As for the healthcare argument I think it's kind of silly that they go on ranting about why they don't want the government controlling it. Especially since healthcare already is under complete control by basically businesses 'and' the government. So instead of having one bad group controlling it we have two.

We've got people who'll fuck up your day to further their own careers and people who'd probably rip out their best friends heart for a buck. I believe in free healthcare because the current American healthcare system is pretty selective of who gets saved and who doesn't. Now, isn't that just kind of wrong?

These people are freaking out about the government having too much control of healthcare when the current state of healthcare basically consists of the government and the insurance companies deciding who lives and who dies. Do I really need to repeat that? People who are supposed to service your health can basically say 'Sorry, but you're a high risk client!' And the government can basically say 'sorry, but you we can't help you.'

Just think, instead of saving a friends life or your own your tax money probably went to banning my rights, banning some stupid fucking game, the military, or to helping a million dollar corporation.

 

[Blue2]

I think that politicians will only:
Think of ways to get more money (e.g. big companies bribe for laws to benefit like how Disney push the copyright life from 22 years to 105 years)
or
Think whats right according to christian values (e.g. most states ban gay rights just because the christian bible has no gay right support.)

Overall: Money and religion makes dishonesty

 

[Kleingeier]

Stuff.

More Anti-Communists were killed than Communists in the Vietnam War. Almost five times more. How's that for the US committing mass murder?

During WWII, American corporations were more separated from the Government than they are now. Much more. FDR had no control over who they decided to supply.

The difference between the Russians and Americans in Afghanistan was the Russians raped and killed as they pleased. Americans just made dumb decisions under a dumb president.
Today, the problem in Afghanistan is the degree to which the US is half-assing its "duties", trying to gain geography and popularity instead of deposing Afghanistan's drug lord president and killing the tribal leaders.

There's no justification for the Iraq War. Bush is a retard. You're 100% there. Of course, the UN holds no weight anywhere. The UN is a 12 year old babysitter looking after a dozen or so 20 year olds and about several dozen babies with down syndrome. The UN is ineffective and weak and doesn't deserve to call any shots.

You're forgetting the fact that France has never really liked the US very much. It's a mutual disdain, not some one-sided vendetta against our NATO-dependent comrades in Paris.

South American Leaders mostly hate the North because we want them to do what we say, our tyranny over theirs, and they don't like that. South American people mostly hate the North because they're proud and stupid.

You're needlessly indignant. You're actually coming off as more of a Penn&Teller-style condescending basement dweller than you are political science enthusiast. The main reason people won't read to far into your post is because you lose credibility the more you shove your obvious agenda into every other word. The problem isn't that you're historically learned, the problem is that it's obvious you learned that history just to push your preconceived notions into a more laudable territory than conspiracy theory.

And as I imagine your hypothetical country, the one that isn't obviously a strawman setup to knock down the US, I'd like you to imagine a country where most people have fresh water to drink and bathe in, food to eat, and a place to live. Then imagine a person complaining about it.

The US is more irresponsible than most European countries? Here's a list you might want to look at:

Rwanda and Darfur double genocide. Whose fault is it?
Apartheid? Who did that?
The systematic mass murder of other Europeans over the course of a decade? And no, it wasn't just Hitler behind that.
Was the largest geographic Empire in history European or American?
Which country dominates in vaccination and world hunger efforts around the world? Hint: It's not Sweden.
What's the region where the people who are almost ethnically identical outside their language are constantly murdering each other over conflicts they don't know the origins of? It start's with a B. But I'm pretty sure it's in Europe. Damn it, this always happens.

Look, I don't think the US is infallible. In fact, I think we're the opposite. But this, this is just nonsense.

 

[Jedoro]

Because for a while, our government thought it was a good idea to pay politicians six digits, but freeze pay for the military.

 

[rock0head132]

It is privet industry that runs the government I do not trust. the idea that only the wealthy deserve to have health care the poor deserve to suffer. also the new American imperialism. why does America think it has the right to force it's world view on others. reminds me of the way the East German and Russian gov worked when the soviets where in power I see no difference.

America has become the Big Bad guy.

I am An American and i am ashamed of my own people for letting this happen.

 

[conflictofinterests]

There is also a fair bit of corruption thet helps fuel that mistrust

This and it's a two party system that only rewards the party that got the absolute MOST votes. Of the people who actually GIVE A SHIT about the democracy, none of us can agree on enough issues to actually influence electoral outcomes. Maybe we get 30% of the vote, and maybe that's ridiculously significant to other places whose government systems aren't as dumb, but here it's just enough to fuck over the only other party who was concerned with what you were concerned with, just less likely to do anything.

 

[Kleingeier]

I think that politicians will only:
Think of ways to get more money (e.g. big companies bribe for laws to benefit like how Disney push the copyright life from 22 years to 105 years)
or
Think whats right according to christian values (e.g. most states ban gay rights just because the christian bible has no gay right support.)

Overall: Money and religion makes dishonesty

You're wrong. Politicians are more than money-grubbing evangelists.

 

[Kleingeier]

It is privet industry that runs the government I do not trust. the idea that only the wealthy deserve to have health care the poor deserve to suffer. also the new American imperialism. why does America think it has the right to force it's world view on others. reminds me of the way the East German and Russian gov worked when the soviets where in power I see no difference.

America has become the Big Bad guy.

I am An American and i am ashamed of my own people for letting this happen.

There is no morality in law or politics. Villagers let this happen. Stop complaining or go out and do something.

 

[MrPeanut]

Why?

Because each and every politician will fuck the citizens in the ASS as often and as hard as they can.

Ofc this is true for all politicians, but moreso in the US where it seems that the people in power are more interested in turning America into a corporatist plutocracy than they are in taking care of the poor and the downtrodden.

 

[Booradlee]

I would like to note that America was founded on the basis of Rejecting the government.

We are a country of rebels, refugees, invaders, and immigrants.
All of our ancestors have had to deal with Tyrants.

America has rarely, rarely fully trusted it's government. We are taught not to from the very beginning.

You ask why America doesn't trust it's government? Because we were never supposed to.
and All that was before the thousand page bills, and laws of today.

 

[Caligulove]

because people have always found it hard to trust or feel entirely safe with their government, and the majority of people in the world always will, most likely.

 

[theultimateend]

Nixon and Watergate started the Mistrust of the government in large scale.

Fox and similar for profit news stations did the rest of the work.

Fun fact: The basis for Fox News was drafted within the Nixon Administration. More connected than you think!

Wow. If that's true that's pretty neat.

Bad kinda neat, but neat.

I'm a little surprised that folks think American's have always hated the US government.

It was more or less worshipped quite a few times up till Watergate.

 

[JMeganSnow]

The government has power in a very Captailistic society, I don't see a reason not to fear it.

Actually, the government has very little and extremely delineated power in a truly capitalist society, although you may be right about a Captailistic one, whatever the heck that is.

The United States of America was founded on the principle that tyranny is destructive to human life while liberty is beneficial to it. No other government in the world was founded on a similar principle. It shapes the whole of American culture--no one is American by accident of birth. You are American when you embrace this principle. Now, many Americans embrace this principle only partially and inconsistently; while they'd argue strenuously that preventing them from doing something THEY want to do would be tyranny, they believe preventing someone else from doing things is perfectly just and right. Some people with American citizenship are outright antithetical to this principle and ought to move to Canada or Europe as they constantly threaten to do. Being hypocrites, they want to go on enjoying the fruits of liberty while actively denouncing it at every turn and seeking to destroy it. Then, when they succeed in largely destroying it in one part of the country (California) they bail and move to a freer part of the country (Colorado, say). Where they think they are going to go when they've succeeded in implementing their ideas country-wide is beyond me.

The American government (as was recognized by the Founding Fathers, among other people) is *very* frequently antithetical to this principle. Not always, but frequently. The founders went to extraordinary effort to attempt to construct a government that would be as beneficial to liberty as possible. In periods when this happened, there was a fair bit of (naive) trust in the government--which, like a "reformed" criminal, immediately took advantage of that trust to do absurd, destructive things.

Those of us who still uphold the original founding principles of this country have settled into a permanent state of distrust for government as the font of most of the tyranny we encounter in our lives. Some have stupidly begun to advocate for worse tyranny as a "solution" to the problem (e.g. no government).

 

[tsb247]

It's not a distrust of the government, it's a distrust of the state, and I tell you it's here in the UK too.

Aside from the fact that if left unchecked, the state would like nothing more then to expand into a nice Orwellian bureaucracy, it is a machine designed to be efficient, but sometimes forgets that people are involved.

In the case of the USA in particular, there is a ingrained fear of too much control, started by them recovering from the monarchy after independence, and brought into the modern age with the cold war. Generally speaking, they see too much state control as a step towards communism and a dictatorship.

My personal opinion is that the state is important and should be large, but still restrained. The state can be a vicious monster if left unchecked, but at least it's designed with the people in mind unlike the alternative, private industry, which is only interested in grabbing as much money as possible, which is not a healthy ethos for the most powerful people in any country.

This is probably the best explanation I have read yet.

It's not so much that Americans distrust the government, it's more that we distrust an all-encompassing state. It's that, "Orwellian bureaucracy," that we want to avoid at all costs. The foundations of American government rely on a limited form of government that can easily be revised if the people see fit, with some permanent facets of government remaining in place.

I'm in favor of a moderate government that has no real left or right positioning - a neutral governing body that can think rationally in matters of politics. Sadly, moderate governments have problems when it comes to getting things done since neither side of a debate usually agrees fully with the other.

All in all, I would think that most Americans are just fed up with the notion of our politicians being able to be bought so easily. We just want a government that won't get too big for us to control, and many Americans seem to think we are nearing a point of no return. Whether we are or not is arbitrary.

 

[conflictofinterests]

I think that politicians will only:
Think of ways to get more money (e.g. big companies bribe for laws to benefit like how Disney push the copyright life from 22 years to 105 years)
or
Think whats right according to christian values (e.g. most states ban gay rights just because the christian bible has no gay right support.)

Overall: Money and religion makes dishonesty

You're wrong. Politicians are more than money-grubbing evangelists.

Some of them start out with ideals, but somewhere along the long, twisted path towards living up to said ideals, they become jaded, and may give in to corruption, because it is FAR easier to go corrupt than it is to accomplish anything on behalf of the people nowadays.

 

[JMeganSnow]

I think that politicians will only:
Think of ways to get more money (e.g. big companies bribe for laws to benefit like how Disney push the copyright life from 22 years to 105 years)
or
Think whats right according to christian values (e.g. most states ban gay rights just because the christian bible has no gay right support.)

Overall: Money and religion makes dishonesty

You're wrong. Politicians are more than money-grubbing evangelists.

Indeed. It's the well-meaning ones who are usually the worst in the long-term.

 

[tsb247]

Please disregard this post. My quote button did not work correctly. :/

 

[Kleingeier]

There is also a fair bit of corruption thet helps fuel that mistrust

This and it's a two party system that only rewards the party that got the absolute MOST votes. Of the people who actually GIVE A SHIT about the democracy, none of us can agree on enough issues to actually influence electoral outcomes. Maybe we get 30% of the vote, and maybe that's ridiculously significant to other places whose government systems aren't as dumb, but here it's just enough to fuck over the only other party who was concerned with what you were concerned with, just less likely to do anything.

As opposed to a party system that rewards the party that only a fraction of people agree with? We're a democratic republic, not a democracy. Democracies are chaos. Secondly, the two party system functions as a self-checking system as opposed to one that allows 30% of people to win a vote because the other five parties couldn't compete. Its design is to make it so that one party's views oppose the other party's, and vice versa, so that the voters can manipulate the goals of the party, and to combat said party, the opposite party would press for their own goals, and a proper republican cycle would result.

Those who are in between, those who seek compromise, if allowed compromise, would depolarize the nation to a dangerous degree. Philosophy tells us that opposition validates an idea, that a man is measured by the quality of his enemies. The two party system is supposed to introduce strong ideas that can be amended into effective place, not mediocre ideas that placate everyone just enough that they stop thinking.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Because they haven't Issued an official assassination order on me yet.

A Justin Bieber joke taken way, way too far? Can't say I'm surprised...