Why doesn't England go Lib Dem?

[freakyHippo]

With English politics being what they are, LibDem are the best of a bad bunch, from the top three. Labour are just a farce, the Tories are Tories, so that just leaves LibDem.

But, with the increased homogenisation of the political parties, I find myself increasingly convinced that the Official Monster Raving Loony Party is the way to go. They can't do a worse job than Labour, and at least it'll be a laugh.

* It is proposed that The European Union end its discrimination by creating a "Court of Human Lefts" because their present policy is one_sided.

*All socks to be sold in packs of 3 as a precaution against losing one.

*Sell shares in Northen rock, buy shares in Blackpool rock!

* It is proposed that the Isle of Man be renamed to "The Isle of Men, Women, Children and some Animals" as not just men live there

* We aim to reduce class sizes by movingthe desks closer together

Sensible policies for a sensible britian

 

[Kevvers]

Liberal Democrats are all middle classes who are guilty about having money. They don't vote Tory because they have a conscience however they won't vote Labour because its too redolent of angry Northerners in flat hats. That is why they won't ever be elected -- because they don't have a decent sized core vote -- the kind who will always vote for their party regardless.

Personally I think that's a good thing because they're too soft to govern effectively.

 

[Herbanator]

Doug: They haven't, mate. Have a look-see [www.omrlp.com] I'm on the verge of joining, as soon as I can think of a halfway-decent Loony Name. I'm think Lord-Baron Herby de Haha.. But I'm not sure.

 

[Doug]

The big problem is, all the parties will raise taxes, in some way, as has been shown by the Tories constantly bleating about Labour's 'stealth' taxes.

The mistake the Lib Dems keep making is they keep being honest about what they want to do.

Stop it! Lie like a *****, tell everyone lower taxes, better healthcare, you'll throw all the immigrants out, and nuke the french, say anything that gets the Mail and Sun readers on your side, then do what you like once you're in power.

Tell them you'll give them free booze and condoms! Tell them its not their fault they've racked up giantatic personal debits! Tell them its the immigrants fault! Just get voted in and see if you can fix the bloody country.

Sadly politics is partly about celebrity and personality, and they shot themself in the foot electing Menzies, presumably after digging him up and performing a ritual, what was he, 83?

Actually, they found him in a broom cupboard at the back of Party HQ, under a blanket with a mug of coco so old it'd turned into a gel. Turns out he wasn't dead, persay, just 'having a short nap lads'.

I don't much care about someone's sexuality, if they're doing a better job than the guy who's all morally pure. People taking bribes is far more relevant to someone's ability to a job as a politician than who or what they happen to want to stick it in. OF course, these things can leave people open to blackmail, but in my world, they'd be known as a goatblower before getting voted in to fix the country.

Hell, get an openly gay or lebsian woman on the stage - instant votes there just for doing that - see what it did for Obama being black!

 

[jomala]

I was very impressed with this forum's handling of this topic - for the first page! Looks like Godwin's Law is due to kick in any minute now though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law.

I was also personally pleased to see so many liberals emerging from the woodwork. Don't be afraid to evangelise at election time, or at least to stand witness. I'll almost certainly be voting for them again, even if I'm not in a constituency they can win, as a high overall vote can also bring them recognition and therefore power.

I'd also like to urge anyone interested in this stuff to look at the Political Compass (http://www.politicalcompass.org/) mentioned in the first post of this trail. I think it's excellent, and it helped me understand a lot more about the US elections last year for instance. It also provides some useful insights into the UK parties over the years: http://www.politicalcompass.org/extremeright (second chart).

 

[Ilosia]

As an Anarchist myself I consider the Lib Dems to be the lesser of three evils, and as such vote for them to try and keep the others out (here is one of the constituencies where Lib Dem is one of the two main runners (Labour being firmly out here).
I consider voting the conservatives back in to be the worst idea possible, which makes it worse for me that all the tabloids screech tory propaganda to extremely gullible idiots when the conservatives are likely to do an even worse job.

Ah well, at least the BNP will never be elected, that would be the end of the world.

 

[Doug]

Doug: They haven't, mate. Have a look-see [www.omrlp.com] I'm on the verge of joining, as soon as I can think of a halfway-decent Loony Name. I'm think Lord-Baron Herby de Haha.. But I'm not sure.

LOL, ok, I'd thought they'd run out of cash, but seems not! To bad Screaming Lord Such isn't incharge anymore.

With English politics being what they are, LibDem are the best of a bad bunch, from the top three. Labour are just a farce, the Tories are Tories, so that just leaves LibDem.

But, with the increased homogenisation of the political parties, I find myself increasingly convinced that the Official Monster Raving Loony Party is the way to go. They can't do a worse job than Labour, and at least it'll be a laugh.

* It is proposed that The European Union end its discrimination by creating a "Court of Human Lefts" because their present policy is one_sided.

*All socks to be sold in packs of 3 as a precaution against losing one.

*Sell shares in Northen rock, buy shares in Blackpool rock!

* It is proposed that the Isle of Man be renamed to "The Isle of Men, Women, Children and some Animals" as not just men live there

* We aim to reduce class sizes by movingthe desks closer together

Sensible policies for a sensible britian

Not-all-that-Bizzarely, these seem more sensable that Labour's ideas.

 

[Zac_Dai]

Its actually more to do with how the election system works.

I'll try to keep this short in explaining how it works.

Its fucked.

In the UK a party can win the majority of seats on less than 40% of the vote, the 60% who voted someone else wasted their vote. So tactical voting arises where people vote for the party most likely to beat the one in power you don't like rather than the party you actually want to win. Add to the fact that unless a party has representation in every constituency it has no chance in hell of winning.

So the Lib dems don't win because of political ideas, its just that system is setup to reinforce a two party system thats incredibly hard to break.

 

[02cfranklin]

To anyone at any age politics is an impenetrable mess. I didn't understand any of it, I only really cared about social justice and civil liberties hence the choice was obvious, Lib Dems.

Tbh though they all tend to cock it up in the end, something so massive as a government will have endless problems.

Thanks for being understanding I guess. You do raise some good yet provocative points though.

 

[Herbanator]

Not-all-that-Bizzarely, these seem more sensable that Labour's ideas.

Not all their policies are total jokes: They propose Equal Rights for Teddy Bears.

The issue of an inadequate representation and lack of equality for Teddy Bears in modern society.

They stay loyal to us through the good and the bad times for so many years, and then are dumped up in an attic, and forgotten. I propose you add to your manifesto:

1) equal rights for Teddies, including voting, marriage, driving and of course the right to drink if aged 18 or over.

2) It to be illegal to put Teddies in boxes, put them in attics, cupboards or anywhere else they will not get to see the light of day.

3) All work places and offices to have at least hired one teddy, and that it must be present in the office at all times.

4) A fair representation of the Teddy Bear minority in parliament.

5) Taxes to also be payable in milk, biscuits, bread and honey, and all other foods considered part of the teddy bear's natural diet.

I was shocked and appalled, after mentioning this to a member of the labour party in the pub, and them shooting the idea down, calling it stupid and pointless.

I hope you take this issue seriously and address it immediately, it has been ignored by British governments for far too long, and once these laws are passed, we will be leading the way in the fight for Equal Rights for Teddies globally.

 

[OtherAlex]

Just for clarification, the Liberal Party that existed after WW1 was not the Liberal Democrats of today.

The Liberal Democrats were formed from an offshoot of labour sometime in the 80s.

As I always say, "Pick a side you liberal wankers."

 

[OtherAlex]

Labour, Tories, Lib Dems...they're all basically the same; big government, big spending, big taxes, pro-EU.

And all of them detached from the reality of the British public.

I call revolution.

 

[LockHeart]

Labour, Tories, Lib Dems...they're all basically the same; big government, big spending, big taxes, pro-EU.

This.

I'd be more inclined to vote for the UK Libertarian Party, just have to wait until they've grown enough to field candidates -

http://lpuk.org/

Small state, low taxes, stays out of my life, what more could you want?

 

[Herbanator]

Just for clarification, the Liberal Party that existed after WW1 was not the Liberal Democrats of today.

The Liberal Democrats were formed from an offshoot of labour sometime in the 80s.

As I always say, "Pick a side you liberal wankers."

I thought they were a merger between the Liberal Party and the Social Democrats? I'm fairly sure they were.

Aha, after some minimal research, the Social Democrats were an offshoot of the Labour Party.

So the LibDems are both the powerful 19th Century - early 20th Party and an offshoot of Labour.

 

[timmytom1]

I would imagine it because they haven't had anything that even vaguely resembles a leader with any charm and charisma for like, well, for ever. I understand and appreciate that politics is not all about personality and who has the prettiest face but i always feel that the british media, who align themselves with either one of the two major parties, have no time for the Liberal Democrats as there is no benefit in it for them. I know that people should be able to make their own minds up through policy and a little bit of intuition but alas that is not the case; the British public have their opinions told to them via red topped tabloid newspapers.

Other possibilities include when the LibDems encouraged voters to vote for Labour over them so as to ensure that the Conservatives where voted out at the next election. I forget which year this was, maybe someone can help me out? I sometimes feel that this decision was more detrimental to the long term health of the party as people, myself included, see them as almost a protest vote against the terrible polcy and bad decision making of the other two parties.

Maybe in the future they will get in to power but until they get a leader that can sway a media fixated with the two big boys and they can then in turn make them seem like a viable vote to the masses, this will not be possible. Hell, even then it may not be possible with the overwhelming voter apathy that the nation has.

Sorry, that appears to have become a bit of a rant.....sorry....have a nice day : )

1906?

 

[jomala]

Just for clarification, the Liberal Party that existed after WW1 was not the Liberal Democrats of today.

The Liberal Democrats were formed from an offshoot of labour sometime in the 80s.

As I always say, "Pick a side you liberal wankers."

Lovely expression, except of course that comment is 20 years out of date, since NuLabour swung violently past the liberals all the way to where the conservatives were standing, like some drunk friend you're trying to walk home with.

The Lib Dems have moved their position a fair bit over the years, as have the conservatives, but we still know pretty much what they stand for. Labour went for the "common sense" standpoint (i.e. the electable middle ground) which got them elected but now means they stand for nothing much apart from the status quo.

 

[The Giggling Pin]

1906?

Bloody hope not. If it is the case my old man has a lot of explaining to do or i am a lot older than i thought!

 

[timmytom1]

Here's the crack boys and girls...
Britain was Lib Dem until after WWI. They founded the NHS, the national education system, gave people a national pension, sick pay, dole, and gave women the vote. They did a hell of alot of good. BUT!!! They raised taxes a bit to fund everything... Oh! The Horror! So all the rich folks who had the vote, voted conservative and they were pretty much in power from, lets say 1927 to 1997, 70 years there abouts. Then Labour came into power because Margaret Thatcher f***ed everything up and crippled us, but it still took us another term under John Majour for us to do anything about it. Labour, as in real Labour, have never been in power. Tony Blairs New Labour came into power in 1997, I think, and admitted that they had no memorandum and would be continuing the conservative rule!!!

Mate get your facts right

NHS - founded in 1948 under a Labour government
Pensions - founded in 1910 under a Conservative government
Unemployment Benifit - founded in 1911 under a Conservative government
Womens Sufferage - given in 1928 under a conservative governement

The only one you got there was the introduction of the national education system by a Liberal government in 1870.

Also you say the conservatives were in power from 1927 to 1997. I'm sure the Labour governments of Ramsey MacDonald (1929-31), Clement Attlee (1945-51), Harold Wilson (1964-1970) and James Callaghan (1974-79) would disagree with you. Also the Coalition governments between and during the wars mean that a conservative government has been in power for 34 years since 1927, not quiet the 70 years you claimed.

Sorry but i couldn't let something so incorrect lie.

1910 was saw the liberals in power did it not? as it was around that time that they introdueced that lords act (can`t remember the proper name)also i thought pensions was a 1906 liberal pledge?

 

[timmytom1]

1906?

Bloody hope not. If it is the case my old man has a lot of explaining to do or o am a lot older than i thought!

No they did do a powershare thing in 1906 (well more of an agreement not to get in each other`s way)but yeah i think 1997 was the one you were thinking of

 

[The Giggling Pin]

1906?

Bloody hope not. If it is the case my old man has a lot of explaining to do or o am a lot older than i thought!

No they did do a powershare thing in 1906 (well more of an agreement not to get in each other`s way)but yeah i think 1997 was the one you were thinking of

I bow to your superior knowledge on the matter my man. I have no knowledge of 1906 politics.
It most definately is 1997 i am thinking of! : )