Your right, i'll giv him pensions and unemployment benifit back. Don't know why i always think Askwith is a torytimmytom1 said:
Why doesn't England go Lib Dem?
- Thread starter EzraPound
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I don't get why everyone is so set against state run/subsidised healthcare and education - you do realise that that's where a nice chunk of your taxes goes, right? Privatising the NHS was a BAD move, I believe.LockHeart said:
Sure, taxes on the Trident missile program are a waste, as is the almost(?) corrupt subsidy of BAE (just find some info on how much the government spends on maintaining British arms industries and just how effective the products are - hell, we had to get Heckler & Kock to fix our assault rifle BAE was so incompetent... I'm thinking Microsoft but sponsored by the government), and I for one would love a greater say on what our government decides to spend my cash on. However, I'm not prepared to cripple the nation's education and healthcare (further) through petty selfishness about taxes :/
the prevailing opinion i think is that they will fail horribly, and they seem to be regarded as "the old Persons' party". that and conservatives are more popular anyway, because they're out "DOING stuff" and everyone's fed up with labour.
i've had enough of labour, and think Cameron is a c**t, so i'm voting Lib Dem because they're the only other logical choice, and they sound like they have a plan, where as Cameron and Brown seem content to trade insults, and claim that they had the idea first
i've had enough of labour, and think Cameron is a c**t, so i'm voting Lib Dem because they're the only other logical choice, and they sound like they have a plan, where as Cameron and Brown seem content to trade insults, and claim that they had the idea first
I find it supremely hypocritical that the Government passes laws against monopolies but has a stranglehold on education and healthcare: sure you can go private, but the taxman rips you off for ineffective services that you'll never use, at a much higher rate compared to what you'd pay in a competetive market.Wicky_42 said:
A voucher system with schools would allow parents to choose where they send their children to school instead of having it dictated to them by local councils. Free of government influence, these schools could actually get on with educating children and poorer schools would be encouraged to restructure themselves similar to the schools where parents actually want to send their children, else they'll lose valuable income.
I don't want to see a huge and sudden fire sale of NHS assets. I'd prefer it if healthcare was devolved to local companies who, free from central control and targets, are able to gear the local healthcare system to what is really needed by the people around them, all while competing in a free market: providing efficient, effective care for patients. Another upside is that citizens will stop being shamelessly ripped off by the massive Ponzi scheme that is National Insurance.
People pay much less tax, are freer to make the choices they want without being dictated to by the government, and allows companies to engage in a more free market.
Ironically, I disagree with you on the Trident point as well
I don't have a problem paying tax for our national defence. But I'd prefer to see us take a stance of nuclear-armed, non-interventionist neutrality.
Same, until the libertarians are big enough I will be a floating voter. Next election it's Tories tho (We NEED to get rid of Labour, and if tories don't get in it will end up a labour/libdem coalition). After that, who knows?LockHeart said:
I reckon the Liberal Democrats could definitely become the second party at this election. This will be Labours longest ever term in office, and it's ended in financial ruin. As straight up socialists they bankrupted the country within one 4 year term, when they became conservative-lite they bankrupted the country at the first recession (Which took 12 years, but still). Labour is finished and LD could easily pick up the pieces, imo.
I'm sick of Authoritarian crap, seriously.
the reason i will not voe lib dem (the most prominent of the many) is that they will transform the voting system to one that pretty much eradicates accountability, making politicians have to suck up to party leaders to get seats instead of pleasing the public.
that and nick clegg is utterly incompetent, vince cable is the only person in the lib dems that's got a brain.
that and nick clegg is utterly incompetent, vince cable is the only person in the lib dems that's got a brain.
"Ineffective services that you'll never use" -- this is absolute rubbish. My brother broke his arm and he had it fixed by an operation free on the NHS. It was a serious fracture and he now has a metal plate. They did an extremely good job, as well as it would be done going private -- most of the surgeons that work for the NHS also have private practises. The NHS is good for A&E type health care. Being a student I find it highly dubious that he would have had insurance if we didn't have the NHS -- health insurance is very, very expensive. I have Dental insurance (yes that is one area in which the NHS isn't very good) and believe me, they are gouging me and there isn't even anything wrong with my teeth. The reason people in America can afford is because it is paid for by their companies. If they don't have it, the financial consequences of injury are huge medical bills and loss of wage earning ability -- in other words dire. I'm glad we don't have that here.LockHeart said:I find it supremely hypocritical that the Government passes laws against monopolies but has a stranglehold on education and healthcare: sure you can go private, but the taxman rips you off for ineffective services that you'll never use, at a much higher rate compared to what you'd pay in a competetive market.Wicky_42 said:
A voucher system with schools would allow parents to choose where they send their children to school instead of having it dictated to them by local councils. Free of government influence, these schools could actually get on with educating children and poorer schools would be encouraged to restructure themselves similar to the schools where parents actually want to send their children, else they'll lose valuable income.
I don't want to see a huge and sudden fire sale of NHS assets. I'd prefer it if healthcare was devolved to local companies who, free from central control and targets, are able to gear the local healthcare system to what is really needed by the people around them, all while competing in a free market: providing efficient, effective care for patients. Another upside is that citizens will stop being shamelessly ripped off by the massive Ponzi scheme that is National Insurance.
People pay much less tax, are freer to make the choices they want without being dictated to by the government, and allows companies to engage in a more free market.
Ironically, I disagree with you on the Trident point as well
We absolutely don't want plurality in the health service. You want one uniform decent service, not lots of different specialist ones causing you to have to go traipsing across the country in order to get the health care you need.
Fair enough... I knew I was exaggerating... I'd say somewhat, but I know it was considerably, but anyway, I was more trying to get a point across rather than be ever so correct. But you know, thanks, it's always best to straighten things out.freakyHippo said:
We also have the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe, and are a nation of binge drinkers.Kevvers said:
When you aren't accountable for your own well-being, people lose a lot of their self-responsibility. Don't get me wrong I think something should be there for kids and students, but could you imagine if the Government provided car insurance for everyone? Would we be as careful on the road?
This has nothing to do with the NHS, we were a nation of drinkers, gamblers and shaggers long before it was ever conceived. Its probably something to do with being a Northern country -- long nights. If you think that the NHS is acting as some kindve safety net allowing young fools to live out their reckless lives with abandon you're mistaken -- they would anyway and our society would be even more broken that it is already.Danzaivar said:
Edit: A little evidence of this: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Lgin.htm
Edit: Car insurance isn't a good model to base your health care system on -- are you proposing scrapping the NHS and making it illegal to live without health insurance?
Well credit where it's due, well done to the people who helped your brother. I fractured my ankle and had it plastered in A&E and was shocked at the standard of care I received when they got to me after 2 excruciating hours, but y'know, swings and roundabouts; my private dentist happens to be very good. I didn't kid myself that it was free either: there is no such thing as a free lunch and the way in which NI funds the NHS is incredibly similar to the way a Ponzi scheme rips off investors.Kevvers said:
Private healthcare may be expensive, but scrapping NI payments and income tax will free up more wealth to allow people to spend - I'd hazard a guess that the reason most people avoid private insurance is because they would still be forced to pay for the NHS, which they would not have to use. That part stands: I cannot see how it is fair to still force people to pay for something that they will not use, and correct me if I'm wrong, but what is stopping someone being covered by say a parent's health insurance in the way in which I'm covered by car and house insurance?
There's nothing stopping companies here paying for private care - my dad's old job did and my aunt's job does. I feel that by allowing companies to compete will lower the cost of healthcare, and regional companies will be able to adapt to the healthcare needs of the local populace. This is not 'specialist medicine' (although I find it ironic that my cousin had to go 'traipsing across the country' to Alderhey Children's Hospital in Liverpool to get the specialist care that he needed), it is allowing providers to prioritise their spending in the direction that their customers need them to.
LockHeart said:
Having your employer pay for your insurance and being covered by your parents insurance is all well and good if you can get it. Forgive me, but relying on the generosity of your employer and your parents sounds a bit middle class. If you're working class, your employer probably won't want to give you health insurance and you probably can't rely on your parents to bail you out either. It sounds to me as if you want a society that is more bias toward the higher earners, as if it wasn't unequal enough already.LockHeart said:
Don't bring class into this, if you read my argument you would be able to tell that I want to cut the tax burden on everyone and make every person wealthier by stopping the government from taking so much hard earned money:Kevvers said:
LockHeart said:
What I want is a society where people are free to make their own choices and are not forced to part with their hard earned money.LockHeart said:
Why would employers not pay for working class employees? What stops parents from saving money to provide for their children? Stop trying to play on stereotypes.
Is there a problem with relying on generosity of companies and individuals? Surely it is better than relying on the 'generosity' of the State (conveniently forgetting that the State does not have its own money, only that which it has forcibly taken from its citizens)?
And that's why we're currently wanting some capitalist pigs in Downing Street. Personally, I prefer Lib Dem to the other parties. I think that Labour and Tories are now basically starting to be one and the same, just running the government like a business and putting profit over people, and the other smaller parties (Green, Legalise Cannabis Society, Nationalist Socialist, Monster Raving Loony) just don't have a leg to stand on as their policies always point towards just one thing. For the green, it's making the earth more environmentally friendly, for the Nationalist Socialist, it's getting rid of blacks and queers and for the LCS, well that's just obvious but my message is this: They will know nothing about what to do with the housing crisis, the war in Afghan or anything else. And that's why I like Lib Dem.Kevvers said:
if you look at the situation .. America is heading to the England way of government. While they are leaving/getting away from socialism America is running head long into that wall.