What ho! Someone doesn't like DA 2 you say? Rediculous! Fetch my helmet, muster the Rohirrim!
Forth, Eorlingas!
Forth, Eorlingas!
Why Dragon Age 2 failed...
- Thread starter endtherapture
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man Baulders gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal were kick ass. I don't know how you could be bored with those. I do admit that BG1 started off rather slow though.verdant monkai said:
OT: I never bought DA2. I played the demo, and realized it would be over dramatic shit. And when I heard about the ending, I was vindicated.
Maybe the central point is that Bioware used to make "boring" games for those of us that liked those sorts of games, and now they make "exciting" games for those of you that like those sort of games - just like every other game company.verdant monkai said:
The fact that every big game company has to make "mainstream" titles is the root of the problem, for me. I don't like the "mainstream" games. I like the "boring" ones.
The reason this keeps coming up is that Bioware used to be one of the tiny group of companies (mostly defunct) that made games I liked, not games the masses liked. But they no longer do that, as DA2 and ME2 attest.
It failed because it was called "Dragon Age 2" and was radically different from the first. The only people who really liked it either didn't play Origins or didn't like it. People who like both seem to be pretty rare.
The fact that the game is mediocre is just coincidence.
The fact that the game is mediocre is just coincidence.
They were going to give us Nathaniel but took him away at the last moment? I am genuinely saddened by this :'(80Maxwell08 said:
I confess, I didn't thoroughly read the post. I saw "Dragon Age 2 failed," was overwhelmed by thoughts of "Oh, it's THIS thread again..." and then replied accordingly.endtherapture said:
With a focus on "atmosphere," there isn't as much dead-horse-beating as those who focus on "combat" or "story" as perceived failures, but it still isn't really a new complaint.
Honestly, I actually really like Dragon Age 2, not quite as much as Origins, but I certainly don't hate it.
The biggest problem I think was due to it being a rush job, which is clearly evident from the recycled environments and the "enemies spawn out of nowhere" combat which definitely didn't have the same tactical feeling that DA:O had.
The story probably also took a hit from the rush job, given how everything quickly came to a conclusion in act 3. Though I did like the more personal angle of Hawke's tale as opposed to the "Save the world/galaxy/country" formula that's usually played in Bioware's games and I found that to be a nice touch.
I do agree with the OP on the music, somewhat. Though I do like some tracks in DA2, there aren't quite as many memorable ones as there were in Origins. And as I recall Inon Zur was one of the first to, offhandedly, admit that DA2 was rushed.
Overall I think the game would've been a lot better, and wouldn't have received anywhere near as much scorn if it had another half year or so of development. I'm willing to wait longer if it means I get a better game. Hopefully this lesson will be learned for DA3.
The biggest problem I think was due to it being a rush job, which is clearly evident from the recycled environments and the "enemies spawn out of nowhere" combat which definitely didn't have the same tactical feeling that DA:O had.
The story probably also took a hit from the rush job, given how everything quickly came to a conclusion in act 3. Though I did like the more personal angle of Hawke's tale as opposed to the "Save the world/galaxy/country" formula that's usually played in Bioware's games and I found that to be a nice touch.
I do agree with the OP on the music, somewhat. Though I do like some tracks in DA2, there aren't quite as many memorable ones as there were in Origins. And as I recall Inon Zur was one of the first to, offhandedly, admit that DA2 was rushed.
Overall I think the game would've been a lot better, and wouldn't have received anywhere near as much scorn if it had another half year or so of development. I'm willing to wait longer if it means I get a better game. Hopefully this lesson will be learned for DA3.
Neverwinter Nights Original Campaign was a horrible disjointed generic badly written piece of rubbish, so full of pot holes I could have drained my vegetables in it. Not getting along with it is not only perfectly valid but sensible.Steampunk Viking said:
The music? Seriously?
I didnt notice the music in either of the games, so far as I can remember.
I didnt notice the music in either of the games, so far as I can remember.
Why did Dragon Age 2 fail? Now there's a question.
Dragon Age: Origins
In my opinion the failings for Dragon Age 2 can only be explained were the series originally began Dragon Age Origins. Now it wasn't Dragon Age Origins itself that was the problem but rather the success that came from it, this is my personal opinion but I feel that Bioware wasn't expecting the game to receive as big a following as it did. The result of its success spurred excitement throughout and the demand for another game was inevitable, yet the Origins story was told so well that the game acted as standalone title. After all the goals were completed, the character's futures were summarized in the Epilogue and your Wardens final decision sealed their chapter either through their death or the unknown ritual.
Dragon Age Awakening and DLC
DLC was then expected to tie some of the knots but instead we received a expansion, Dragon Age Awakening. Now this is where the alarm bell's should have started ringing for me, despite it providing a expansion to the land of Fereldan, introducing new characters and giving us an insight into the Grey Warden's Order and remaining to capture the atmosphere of the first game. The game coincidentally undermined every player's decision of killing their Warden in Origins by allowing to import your save file.
Though the option to make a new character was present it still didn't remove the sour taste. Awakening itself was a brilliant expansion but suffered some terrible glitches, design flaws and the plot-line and narrative felt rushed. The other pieces of DLC helped us get our fix but didn't do much to address the remaining questions about Morrigan and Flemeth. In my opinion and mine alone, I feel that if enough time was invested in the game Dragon Age Awakening should have acted as the sequel.
None the less...later on Dragon Age 2 was announced.
As much as I love the game anyone can easily see this game was rushed and shipped as quickly as possible. The reason behind this decision I think was because Bioware/EA saw that there was a huge gap between the next Mass Effect game and they wanted to close that gap with another title and Dragon Age was there to fill the gap. Unfortunately their decision backfired because once ME3 was delayed and Dragon Age 2 was under the spotlight it crumbled.
What could we change to make Dragon Age 2 amazing?
Hawke
I understand Bioware?s approach with the sequel, with a new game you would need a new hero. Hawke filled that criterion but unfortunately because Hawke had a pre-set background and a basic personality every decision you made felt unimportant and added little impact. Which in contrast to the Warden and Sheperd could be forged anyway you wanted because the player selected the Origins and each decision created the character how you wanted, with the introduction with Hawke it didn?t feel like that could be achieved.
This could have been easily solved with the use of the template Origin stories and races that featured in the first game. By recreating this it would have added alot more depth both to the characterisation and the story allowing the player to forge their Champion rather than just being the Champion.
The Introduction of Family Members
The Introduction of the Hawke family caught my attention when it was first announced, I thought it would be cool to explore and forge/break bonds with family members when fleeing the Blight and the Templar?s. However any meaningful interaction was destroyed when you?re forced to lose one of your siblings at the very beginning of the game you don?t feel any shred of remorse as you have no insight to either of their characters until after their timely death. Any sense of choice is stripped away and you?re either stuck with Bethany or Carver.
Not only that but when you do start investing time into your family their later massacre is more an annoyance than emotional journey. The only exception was the scene in the deep roads when I first lost Carver after we became closer as brothers, it was the only moment in the game where I felt I lost something of value.
Kirkwall
Investing 3 years of your protagonist?s life sounded like a great artistic move. However the size of this grand city was anything but reasonable the Capital city felt so small and exploration was limited. Over the period of 3 years little changes and no sense of internal conflict is noticeable unless you continue the main quest. Also the recycling of dungeons both within and outside the city was unforgivable.
If Kirkwall was bigger it help destroy this claustrophobic feel to the game, even if the city grew or evolved over the 3 years with creation of new shops, area?s or other feature?s would make Kirkwall appear like an alive bustling Capital like it suppose to be. Include a few random event?s highlighting the internal struggle and you have a continuity in theme, also by allowing travelling freedom to other area?s would expand the world. Also creativity in dungeon variety wouldn?t be that much to ask for.
Plot
Was there a plot?
Ok that might be too unkind, there was the continual tension between the Mages and Templar?s which we could relate to from the first game. However as I player it felt like a giant cofluffle their wasn?t a clear threat to Hawke or his family. At first it was the Blight, then it?s survival, which then leads him into the mines where he finds Dwarf hell, then the Qunari kick off and then a final revolution between the Mages and Templars.
There?s alot that needed to be addressed with this game, it was great but too sketchy and wishy-washy. It felt like a really neat piece introducing some new concepts to the series but it didn?t appear to have a clear goal and the cameos were awfully integrated. Dragon Age 2 wasn?t great enough to stand on its own it felt like it was meant to be apart of something greater in the realm but didn?t quite deleiver.
Dragon Age: Origins
In my opinion the failings for Dragon Age 2 can only be explained were the series originally began Dragon Age Origins. Now it wasn't Dragon Age Origins itself that was the problem but rather the success that came from it, this is my personal opinion but I feel that Bioware wasn't expecting the game to receive as big a following as it did. The result of its success spurred excitement throughout and the demand for another game was inevitable, yet the Origins story was told so well that the game acted as standalone title. After all the goals were completed, the character's futures were summarized in the Epilogue and your Wardens final decision sealed their chapter either through their death or the unknown ritual.
Dragon Age Awakening and DLC
DLC was then expected to tie some of the knots but instead we received a expansion, Dragon Age Awakening. Now this is where the alarm bell's should have started ringing for me, despite it providing a expansion to the land of Fereldan, introducing new characters and giving us an insight into the Grey Warden's Order and remaining to capture the atmosphere of the first game. The game coincidentally undermined every player's decision of killing their Warden in Origins by allowing to import your save file.
Though the option to make a new character was present it still didn't remove the sour taste. Awakening itself was a brilliant expansion but suffered some terrible glitches, design flaws and the plot-line and narrative felt rushed. The other pieces of DLC helped us get our fix but didn't do much to address the remaining questions about Morrigan and Flemeth. In my opinion and mine alone, I feel that if enough time was invested in the game Dragon Age Awakening should have acted as the sequel.
None the less...later on Dragon Age 2 was announced.
As much as I love the game anyone can easily see this game was rushed and shipped as quickly as possible. The reason behind this decision I think was because Bioware/EA saw that there was a huge gap between the next Mass Effect game and they wanted to close that gap with another title and Dragon Age was there to fill the gap. Unfortunately their decision backfired because once ME3 was delayed and Dragon Age 2 was under the spotlight it crumbled.
What could we change to make Dragon Age 2 amazing?
Hawke
I understand Bioware?s approach with the sequel, with a new game you would need a new hero. Hawke filled that criterion but unfortunately because Hawke had a pre-set background and a basic personality every decision you made felt unimportant and added little impact. Which in contrast to the Warden and Sheperd could be forged anyway you wanted because the player selected the Origins and each decision created the character how you wanted, with the introduction with Hawke it didn?t feel like that could be achieved.
This could have been easily solved with the use of the template Origin stories and races that featured in the first game. By recreating this it would have added alot more depth both to the characterisation and the story allowing the player to forge their Champion rather than just being the Champion.
The Introduction of Family Members
The Introduction of the Hawke family caught my attention when it was first announced, I thought it would be cool to explore and forge/break bonds with family members when fleeing the Blight and the Templar?s. However any meaningful interaction was destroyed when you?re forced to lose one of your siblings at the very beginning of the game you don?t feel any shred of remorse as you have no insight to either of their characters until after their timely death. Any sense of choice is stripped away and you?re either stuck with Bethany or Carver.
Not only that but when you do start investing time into your family their later massacre is more an annoyance than emotional journey. The only exception was the scene in the deep roads when I first lost Carver after we became closer as brothers, it was the only moment in the game where I felt I lost something of value.
Kirkwall
Investing 3 years of your protagonist?s life sounded like a great artistic move. However the size of this grand city was anything but reasonable the Capital city felt so small and exploration was limited. Over the period of 3 years little changes and no sense of internal conflict is noticeable unless you continue the main quest. Also the recycling of dungeons both within and outside the city was unforgivable.
If Kirkwall was bigger it help destroy this claustrophobic feel to the game, even if the city grew or evolved over the 3 years with creation of new shops, area?s or other feature?s would make Kirkwall appear like an alive bustling Capital like it suppose to be. Include a few random event?s highlighting the internal struggle and you have a continuity in theme, also by allowing travelling freedom to other area?s would expand the world. Also creativity in dungeon variety wouldn?t be that much to ask for.
Plot
Was there a plot?
Ok that might be too unkind, there was the continual tension between the Mages and Templar?s which we could relate to from the first game. However as I player it felt like a giant cofluffle their wasn?t a clear threat to Hawke or his family. At first it was the Blight, then it?s survival, which then leads him into the mines where he finds Dwarf hell, then the Qunari kick off and then a final revolution between the Mages and Templars.
There?s alot that needed to be addressed with this game, it was great but too sketchy and wishy-washy. It felt like a really neat piece introducing some new concepts to the series but it didn?t appear to have a clear goal and the cameos were awfully integrated. Dragon Age 2 wasn?t great enough to stand on its own it felt like it was meant to be apart of something greater in the realm but didn?t quite deleiver.
I honestly don't agree with you on the music, that's one area that I think DA2 lived up to the original. Do a youtube search for the DA2 themes. Not only are they pretty good, they are actually quite similar to a lot of the themes in DA:O.
The rest of it, yeah. DA2's biggest problem was lack of development time. It was rushed out sequel that needed more TLC before release. Also some bad design decisions, but that's something for another time.
The rest of it, yeah. DA2's biggest problem was lack of development time. It was rushed out sequel that needed more TLC before release. Also some bad design decisions, but that's something for another time.