Why Dragon Age 2 failed...

[VoidWanderer]

The Plot (more like plod).

There is no over-arching polt device. In DA:O there were two, the massive army of Darkspawn and the Usurper. In DA2 I think it was to do with what happened to the Champion, but what you told (play) can be figured out by most people.

DA:O had great pacing for its story, but with DA2 it was more of a meander than a heart-poundingly good run. There was no real meaning to it and I still cannot muster the initiative to get past Act 2, the dullest one so far.

The blatant recycling of the maps certainly didn't help either. If they even blacked out the area you couldn't get to, it would've improved it slightly. But my biggest complaint is the plot.

 

[endtherapture]

I honestly don't agree with you on the music, that's one area that I think DA2 lived up to the original. Do a youtube search for the DA2 themes. Not only are they pretty good, they are actually quite similar to a lot of the themes in DA:O.

I've listened to the themes, it's not that they're not good, it's that they don't fit the game at all.

DA2 is set in a cosmopolitan crowded city which is very slowly crumbling from the inside. It's a busy hub of activity that is slowly decaying as the story goes on, eventually leading to several conflicts in the city. It's also a sequel so you know the world it's set in, so there is slightly less mystery, especially as you're in the same place the whole game so there is a sense of familiarity. None of these are conveyed in the musical themes, which borrow heavily from DA:O, which has a complete different feel to DA2.

DA:O is set in a wilderness land on the edge of the known world, beset by barbarians, surrounded by frigid mountains, and under attack by a great evil that is threatening to destroy the country more as each day passes. It's in a state of crisis, and times are very dark, everywhere is under siege by some force. It's also a brand new setting so there is A LOT of mystery ongoing. You're going to unexplored ruins in vast abandoned underground caverns, dark twisted forests, isolated mountain towns etc. The musical themes encapsulate the bleak plight of the country and the barren landscapes very well.

Using similar scores for these two vastly contrasting places doesn't make sense. I understand they're trying to maintain continuity but the two settings are so absolutely different that the DA:O themes don't make sense in DA2.

It'd be like using the Harry Potter music in Lord of the Rings.

 

[Aerosteam]

I've only played the demo for Dragon Age 2. 'Twas an RPG no more.

It was rushed, and like the OP said, it had no atmosphere what so ever. It did take one and a half years to make, after all. Also like what Yahtzee said, the game was only made for the money since the previous game was a success. Yeah, this thread is pretty accurate, but why did it take this long to make after the game's release?

Spoiler: I think trees pretty much symbolise how little effort and time was put into it .They look like Christmas trees a child would draw.

You're right.

 

[darron13]

I agree with you completely.
The combat system was the first bad sign for me...

Yup. When I saw characters jumping around like it was some kung fu movie, I was like wtf is this shit ?

The shitty artstyle, the dialog wheel with those dumb ass faces .. Good thing I saved myself some money and paid attention per-release. It was obvious to me that it was gonna be shit.

Indeed, though I DID buy it...eventually. Two weeks ago to be precise.
While the amount of choice in the game is nice...it's still very cut and paste, it didn't feel like they put much work into it, especially if you compare it to Mass Effect.
And well yeah...the stupid combat system is another issue.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

DA2 was a failure because it was rushed. Simple as that. It had all the signs of a rushed game.

1) Lackluster story.
2) Re-used environments.
3) Poor customization/choice.

That was basically it. If the game had another 6-9 months in development it could have been amazing. The combat in particular was a huge step up from DA:O in my opinion. I wasn't a huge fan of the loooong ability cooldowns or the archer enemies leaping down from the castle walls every 8 seconds, but overall the combat was MUCH more fun than DA:Os slow strategic grind.

 

[Fidelias]

I have one thing I really, REALLY hated about Dragon Age 2 that I haven't seen anyone else talk about.

The hype about the Champion of Kirkwall.

Throughout the trailers and the game, the Champion is talked about like he's (I'm just gonna stick with 'he' to make writing easier)some big deal. Like he chew's nails for breakfast and could kill dragons in his sleep. As if he weren't just 'on par' with the Hero of Ferelden, but BETTER than the Hero of Ferelden.

Turns out he's just some nosy bastard who can't leave well-enough-alone. I mean, his big climactic battle was a small mage uprising, how does that come close to comparing with ANYTHING from the first game?

So yeah, I guess that's the main reason I disliked DA2, nothing seemed to compare with even side-quests of Origins.

I realize this was supposed to be Hawke's personal story and all, but that doesn't mean it can't involve epic battles.

And don't compare the whimp from Kirkwall to my dragon-slaying, ale-swigging, duel-wielding she-Elf from Origins, please.

 

[endtherapture]

I think there's 2 camps when it comes to the combat in DAO/DA2. One is the more action orientated crowd who prefer the more button mashy type games like God of War and such. (they like DA2's combat better) Hence the AWESOME button...

And the others are the fans of more tactical type combat, like in the BG games, say. (they like DAO's combat more) Even though it was dumbed down from BG. But that has to do with them using their own world, as opposed to d&d.

I like the more tactical approach myself, because that's what I grew up playing, and if I wanted to play an action game, I would just play those. (like there isn't enough of them out there)

That being said, I'll take fully turn based combat, like in Temple of Elemental Evil or the Gold Box games over all of them. Especially when it comes to party based RPGS.

There are enough action fantasy games right now, without Dragon Age 2 filling the market further.

DA:O's niche was for people who preferred tactical RPG combat with a small party. Sadly DA2 destroyed that

 

[toliman]

I have one thing I really, REALLY hated about Dragon Age 2 that I haven't seen anyone else talk about.

The hype about the Champion of Kirkwall.

[..] don't compare the wimp from Kirkwall to my dragon-slaying, ale-swigging, duel-wielding she-Elf from Origins, please.

So i figure this is Dragon Age 3, in a nutshell.

You start off in a 7 minute interactive cutscene that reminisces with 3 people drinking and playing poker, while cheating in the hanged man, 7 minutes later, you are introduced as the Guy who cleans the Hanged Man Inn, after those 3 people are forcibly ejected by whomever survived Dragon Age 2 from the preloaded savegame, or just Varric and Isabella if you didn't load a save from the 2nd or 1st game.

Your destiny is awoken as you are then picked out by the grand cleric Elthina moments before dying horribly, to save the secret chantry manuscript of a second maker, but something goes wrong and you then become cursed with her dying breath to protect the living remains of andraste, now haunting your soul, who in turn now gives you some eldrich demon spawn ability to handle lyrium enhanced dual-wielding grenade launching crossbows, prayer empowered melee gauntlets, and a wrist mounted lyrium codpiece you can now use to lockpick doors and navigate dimensional portals (in one of the least disturbing minigames ever imagined with a codpiece)

all of which you'll need to fight the new cybernetic darkspawn abominations of the reawakened tevinter empire, who are coming from beyond the distant future, where you'll be time travelling from and to the distant past of ferelden, thedas and if you buy the DLC, kirkwall, where cyborg darkspawn wiped out all records of their existence.

to defeat this new enemy, you'll need to collect magical lyrium enhanced heat sink clips from the demonspawn you kill, and for every end boss you kill, will unlock bonus abilities in the DA3 multiplayer.

you'll also have to specialise in a tech tree that only resembles ME3, but the names and titles will change to suit this new enemy that assumes direct control over existing darkspawn, in what promises to be even more epic and world-ending than the last game.

So, you along with 4 trusty companions,

merrill's second cousin's sister who is a former keeper, (who you'll be reminded of in every cutscene, doesn't wear clothing, but is modelled from a 16 (27 year old) year old actress on some MTV show)

Sandal "Enchantment" 's son, Roger Feddic, (voiced by zachary levi now that he hasn't got a job)

a mabari/quinari werewolf that's haunted by the spirit of Vengeance, (who is also gay, but not that it matters)

and the third cousin of the hero of ferelden and Loghain ,(whom is also gay, but female) who is also a secret princess of their royal family, who you find curating leliana's shoe collection in the game.

Along with 4 other DLC optional companions who slightly resemble their DAO counterparts,

Shale, gets a makeover and now goes by Shelley (also optional DLC romance option),
Loghain is now a dragon demonspawn, who you can optionally use as a vehicle mount for the entire party,
Zhevran is still around, but now wears sunglasses, talks in an affected stilted manner and looks slightly reptilian, in homage to no particular bioware character,
Wynne is back, with her lightsaber from the first game as an optional magic using healer whom you find at the chantry (who is also a love interest if you're female)

all purely optional DLC characters.

(All DLC characters will also have a DLC clothing pack to change up companion casual clothing options)

all 9 of you are on a quest to discover a reasonable excuse to explore ferelden again, you set out to deliver the secret manuscript, while bringing about the 7th age of reason, release a mad god, and expand the depth of what people will accept as optional DLC and not being arguably overpowered at any point.

when you add in the value of using all those existing areas from DA:O, along with preorder DLC caches of weapons that you'll find useless within 2 hours or beyond level 10, another DLC pack containing the entire DA2 storyline, for which, if you can complete it in less than 4 hours, you get the achievement, and a third DLC package featuring mabari skins and a storyline that lets you opt out of gay romance options and live a purely chaste life in the 12 hours total gameplay experience.

Expected RRP is $49.95, CE will be $89.95, and a total of $160 for the DLC options not found in the CE, as the DDXL for $299.95, only if you preorder between 9-11 months in advance from Origin exclusively.

For release, December 2012

 

[Steampunk Viking]

SNIP

Neverwinter Nights Original Campaign was a horrible disjointed generic badly written piece of rubbish, so full of pot holes I could have drained my vegetables in it. Not getting along with it is not only perfectly valid but sensible.

Yea, the OC for NWN was shit. The toolset and playing MP was the good part of NWN. KotOR was really overrated too. I could see why the Star Wars geeks liked it, but going from BG series to that, combat and RPG mechanics were severely dumbed down.

DAO was mediocre overall, but I guess pretty good for a modern RPG. So when compared to shit, it looks good. Really, aside from the BG series, Bioware has been pretty damn underwhelming and overrated, imo.

Yes, the Original Campaign was terrible and I rarely was even able to get on the multiplayer section. Plus the gameplay was horribly disjointed especially compared to Baldur's Gate (IMO the second best series Bioware has ever made after Mass Effect). This may be a drum that's already been beaten before but this is coming from a self confessed Bioware fanboy.

Bioware's writing is still really good, but the problem they have is that their older stuff is way, way better. Dragon Age: Origins was actually well written. Unfortunately, well written isn't enough for Bioware, if it's not amazing, they fail in peoples eyes. As much as I prefer Origins over Dragon Age 2, I will say Dragon Age 2 had the better writing (if you scrub out Anders... whoever wrote his character should be ashamed. Apart from the whole "Vengence" thing, that was cool).

Knights of the Old Republic, Baldur's Gate (especially the second one) and Mass Effect, in my opinion, are still the paragons of Bioware's story writing skills.

 

[LittleBlondeGoth]

I find myself pretty much agreeing with the OP here. I've played both Dragon Ages multiple times, and put simply, I prefer Origins.

The Orzammar / Broodmother example is a good one, actually. That was a really creepy moment. The build up was excellent, Hespith's chanting really set me on edge, and the reveal was properly horrible. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoyed DA2, but I felt like there were a lot fewer of these moments compared to the first game. In fact, I'm struggling to remember any standout pieces.

The music... Again, I remember more from the Origins than I do from the sequel. That's not to say I thought the tracks in DA2 were rubbish, because when I listen to them, they're not. They just don't feel as memorable.

The upshot is I thought DA2 was a game with a lot of potential, but it never quite achieved what it was capable of. Wave combat isn't necessarily a bad thing, but every time and from every direction? It just made positioning more a matter of luck than judgement. I didn't object too much to being confined to Kirkwall, because that fitted Hawke's story, I just wished the city was bigger. I didn't mind my choices not being able to stop what happened at the end, because sometimes that's the way life works. I just wish there's been more consistency and less... Well, less blood mages, really. It seemed like everyone was a freaking blood mage. Couldn't throw a stone without hitting one or two.

Another year tacked on to the development time would probably have done wonders. Did I enjoy playing DA2? Yes. Could it have been better? Also yes.

 

[toliman]

I will say Dragon Age 2 had the better writing (if you scrub out Anders... whoever wrote his character should be ashamed. Apart from the whole "Vengence" thing, that was cool).

it is *Likely* (and by that i mean definitively, but politically speaking, only Likely) the writer that shall remain nameless ... and never mentioned on the internet.

yes. that one.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Anders#Trivia

lest ye forget the horror ... http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Anders/Dialogue

Knights of the Old Republic, Baldur's Gate (especially the second one) and Mass Effect, in my opinion, are still the paragons of Bioware's story writing skills.

it's interesting that as original licenses, they were able to take an original concept, shine it up into what is arguably an archaic format, the WRPG, and push it towards a console market where there's about 12 RPG's, and make a ton of money.

i forgive ME2 and DA2 a lot since they had a reliance on the old canon, and "executive", if not meddling, pressure to create a format that was badly polished and tiresome. if you remove their worst attributed faults, the game itself is outstanding. but, every game if you remove that one jarring mechanic or failure is also going to excel, so that's not a valid turnkey to forgiveness or alleviated fan reaction.

a lot of it could have come out in testing or critical QA/peer testing,

 

[Distance_warrior]

Snip

Anders could die. If you get your sibling to join the Grey Wardens, the quest to return to the deeproads won't be some random dwarf wanting you to find his son, but it'll come from the Wardens. If you go back to the Deep Roads with Anders (and if he died in your Awakening), you find Nathaniel and he stares disbelieving at Anders, saying "Anders. You're supposed to be dead. I saw the body!" To which Anders says "That's what I WANTED you to think." Ahhhh yes, the ol' "conjure up a corpse that looks just like you and dress it up in your robes to fake your own death" trick...

Yep I'm calling that out because if that does happen he still meets justice and talks in depth about his adventures with my warden which didn't happen and he even goes so far as to elaborate some rubbish story about my character making him get rid of a cat. So unless there is a cunningly hidden bit of dialogue where he admits to stalking the warden through Amaranthine and making paper cut-outs to boss him around then it's still a plot hole. Of course if it turns out that I only got that dialogue because of an import glitch disregard.

 

[Fidelias]

I have one thing I really, REALLY hated about Dragon Age 2 that I haven't seen anyone else talk about.

The hype about the Champion of Kirkwall.

[..] don't compare the wimp from Kirkwall to my dragon-slaying, ale-swigging, duel-wielding she-Elf from Origins, please.

So i figure this is Dragon Age 3, in a nutshell.

... eldrich demon spawn ability to handle lyrium enhanced dual-wielding grenade launching crossbows, prayer empowered melee gauntlets, and a wrist mounted lyrium codpiece you can now use to lockpick doors and navigate dimensional portals (in one of the least disturbing minigames ever imagined with a codpiece)

...cyborg darkspawn ...merrill's second cousin's sister who is a former keeper, (who you'll be reminded of in every cutscene, doesn't wear clothing, but is modelled from a 16 (27 year old) year old actress on some MTV show)...

ULTRA SNIP (couldn't help leaving some of the best parts in )
For release, December 2012

Okay, I'm not entirely sure, but is your point that I'm expecting too much by wanting them to make the Champion more epic?

I don't need the Champion go destroy gods and all, but his defining moment should be something better than a small scale uprising. My point is mainly that if they hype the Champion up to being badass, he should fit the bill. If they didn't want him to have epic fights, then he shouldn't be praised as the Jesus of Kirkwall, that's all.

 

[luke10123]

Every quest visiting the same 4 locations. It was boring as sin!

 

[Megalodon]

Okay, I'm not entirely sure, but is your point that I'm expecting too much by wanting them to make the Champion more epic?

I don't need the Champion go destroy gods and all, but his defining moment should be something better than a small scale uprising. My point is mainly that if they hype the Champion up to being badass, he should fit the bill. If they didn't want him to have epic fights, then he shouldn't be praised as the Jesus of Kirkwall, that's all.

Small scale makes me thing of a few dozen mages at most, not an entire Circle. Plus the events in Kirkwall snowball into what sounds like a Thedas-wide war. Problem with this was the ending felt like it should be the Act 1 finale of another game. Also, what did the Hero of Ferelden fight that was so much more epic than the Champion, Dragons and Demons were pretty much the big scary enemies in both games.

 

[endtherapture]

Okay, I'm not entirely sure, but is your point that I'm expecting too much by wanting them to make the Champion more epic?

I don't need the Champion go destroy gods and all, but his defining moment should be something better than a small scale uprising. My point is mainly that if they hype the Champion up to being badass, he should fit the bill. If they didn't want him to have epic fights, then he shouldn't be praised as the Jesus of Kirkwall, that's all.

Small scale makes me thing of a few dozen mages at most, not an entire Circle. Plus the events in Kirkwall snowball into what sounds like a Thedas-wide war. Problem with this was the ending felt like it should be the Act 1 finale of another game. Also, what did the Hero of Ferelden fight that was so much more epic than the Champion, Dragons and Demons were pretty much the big scary enemies in both games.

The thing is, that the Thedas-wide war was apparently instigated by Wynne from DA:O in a A GODDAMNED BOOK, and apparently the events in Kirkwall didn't do that much.

How does Hawke killing some Qunari and going to the Deep Roads affect the start of the War? Why does Cassandra care? She would've just told Varric to shut up for most of the story. Plus Asunder apparently tells more of the story of why the war beings than DA2 so it's stupid

 

[Megalodon]

Okay, I'm not entirely sure, but is your point that I'm expecting too much by wanting them to make the Champion more epic?

I don't need the Champion go destroy gods and all, but his defining moment should be something better than a small scale uprising. My point is mainly that if they hype the Champion up to being badass, he should fit the bill. If they didn't want him to have epic fights, then he shouldn't be praised as the Jesus of Kirkwall, that's all.

Small scale makes me thing of a few dozen mages at most, not an entire Circle. Plus the events in Kirkwall snowball into what sounds like a Thedas-wide war. Problem with this was the ending felt like it should be the Act 1 finale of another game. Also, what did the Hero of Ferelden fight that was so much more epic than the Champion, Dragons and Demons were pretty much the big scary enemies in both games.

The thing is, that the Thedas-wide war was apparently instigated by Wynne from DA:O in a A GODDAMNED BOOK, and apparently the events in Kirkwall didn't do that much.

How does Hawke killing some Qunari and going to the Deep Roads affect the start of the War? Why does Cassandra care? She would've just told Varric to shut up for most of the story. Plus Asunder apparently tells more of the story of why the war beings than DA2 so it's stupid

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the way DA2 handled Act 3 was good, and I don't know anyhting about Asunder,the actual game gives the imprssion Kirkwall's revolt dirctly led to the war . I just don't get why you think the Champion was so much less "epic" than The Warden, when they did pretty similar things, only one had a blight to contend with, while the other had a city fullof idiots.
I'm also not saying I think 2 was better than origins, although I do like 2.

 

[endtherapture]

Okay, I'm not entirely sure, but is your point that I'm expecting too much by wanting them to make the Champion more epic?

I don't need the Champion go destroy gods and all, but his defining moment should be something better than a small scale uprising. My point is mainly that if they hype the Champion up to being badass, he should fit the bill. If they didn't want him to have epic fights, then he shouldn't be praised as the Jesus of Kirkwall, that's all.

Small scale makes me thing of a few dozen mages at most, not an entire Circle. Plus the events in Kirkwall snowball into what sounds like a Thedas-wide war. Problem with this was the ending felt like it should be the Act 1 finale of another game. Also, what did the Hero of Ferelden fight that was so much more epic than the Champion, Dragons and Demons were pretty much the big scary enemies in both games.

The thing is, that the Thedas-wide war was apparently instigated by Wynne from DA:O in a A GODDAMNED BOOK, and apparently the events in Kirkwall didn't do that much.

How does Hawke killing some Qunari and going to the Deep Roads affect the start of the War? Why does Cassandra care? She would've just told Varric to shut up for most of the story. Plus Asunder apparently tells more of the story of why the war beings than DA2 so it's stupid

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the way DA2 handled Act 3 was good, and I don't know anyhting about Asunder,the actual game gives the imprssion Kirkwall's revolt dirctly led to the war . I just don't get why you think the Champion was so much less "epic" than The Warden, when they did pretty similar things, only one had a blight to contend with, while the other had a city fullof idiots.
I'm also not saying I think 2 was better than origins, although I do like 2.

It doesn't explain how it led to the war. The circle revolted in Ferelden in DA:O, the right of Annulment can be evoked, yet that didn't lead to a massive war? Why is this different in DA2? Nothing is explained, it's just a pointless story leading to a pointless set up for the sequel where nothing is explained.

The Warden fought an ancient timeless evil and it's giant army, as well as ancient werewolves, a tower full of Blood Mages and Abominations, the mysterious Flemeth, ancient Dwarven Paragons and a Dragon Cult.

The Champion deals with a city full of insane idiots who keep losing things.