Why I Hate Halo (And Other Stories)

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Aurora Firestorm

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Thanks, OhJohnNo. I'm a giant Homeworld fan. :) Glad to see another.

But I'd like to address this:

So, do you want art or do you want toys?

Because multiplayer is a toy. You PLAY with it. You play with other people, you spend time, you get some skill in it, and you have fun. It's like playing cards or board-games.

You're saying now that games such as TF2 CAN NEVER BE REAL ART. That the schtick of the game, the balance, the creativity involved in the team classes, all of that is just a bunch of trifles. You're being narrow-minded now. I don't even like multiplayer in most games and I think you're being overkill.

Multiplayer is not killing single-player. Really, it isn't. You did say something I thought worked -- they are fundamentally different art forms. This means that neither is encroaching on the other's territory. They're different aims, different objectives.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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Ensis235 said:
FollowUp said:
(Also, a short campaign does not equal a bad one.)
Well said. Sure, a campaign can last for 5 hours, but what if those 5 hours were spent playing an enjoyable and well made campaign that has plenty of replay value?
I agree wholeheartedly. I've played all the way through Half-Life 2 twice, I've played all the way through Gears of War at least 8 times. HL2 is a better game for sure, but Gears is far more replayable simply by being shorter and faster-paced and replayability is a factor I value too.

Also one further point about the Halo series specifically. It is very apparent to me that Bungie's Halo games are complete designed for multiplayer, including the campaign. Just look no further than the Warthog, one guy drives while one guy shoots, it's the perfect co-op vehicle. Halo is a social game all the way through. Campaign isn't the single-player mode, just the one mode that is best suited for the solitary player (again, it's better with more people).
 

blankedboy

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What pisses me off is games like the Call of Duty series, which I know started out SP, but now the SP just seems like a 2-4 hour add-on to the real game. I've always loved multiplayer better for the most part, and while SP's good, it needs to really be the main part of the game. AvP2 balanced it perfectly. Sauerbraten did until Trooper Edition. Call of Duty, like I said, didn't at all.
 

Ampersand

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Mikeyfell said:
Ampersand said:
Mikeyfell said:
Ampersand said:
I can't help but feel that, refering to this as a problem is a bit shallow and narrow minded. Not all games will be tailor made for you and you have to accept that different people want different things from thier gaming experience.
Halo is alot more fun if you play them with friends, that's the way it's been since halo 2, even the story is alot better when you've got someone with you. It seems like you're saying that this is a bad thing.
it's a problem because
yes not every game is tailor made for me
but 90% of games are tailor made for online FPS players
and they try to divide up the other 10% to everyone else

if ...say...Halo and Call of Duty were the only FPS games available and other companies tried to cater to other markets
then it wouldn't be a problem

but everyone and their dog is trying to make the next big crappy FPS and nobody cares about us shmoes who like single player games.
Maybe 90% is a bit of an exaggeration. I mean out of all of the game i own(for the x-box) maybe 10% are FPS That's Halo reach and ODST.(I also have bioshock but.....it doesn't count) The rest are all single player games, and all of them came out in like the last year and a half. So it's not like there arn't enough strong single player experiences out there.

On that note are you as excited as I am for Batman Arkham city?
90% is an exaggeration I'll admit but developers of singleplayer nonFPS games are in a huge minority

sorry I don't get excited for sequels or spin-offs any more
Except Mass Effect 3!!! that's going to be the best game ever!!!! [sub]in case you couldn't tell, I'm in denial right now [/sub]
Sequel or not it's going to be awesome. ; D
Never really got into mass effect, I started playing but then i just rewatched babyon 5.
 

Direwolf750

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multiplayer often makes a company more money than single player. map packs can be released, new skins, new dlc. It's all about money, and people tend l=to like to play with other people. I still agree with you, it's a bad trend, but that's why.
 

repeating integers

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Aurora Firestorm said:
Thanks, OhJohnNo. I'm a giant Homeworld fan. :) Glad to see another.
They're somewhat of a rarity around here (well, nearly everywhere, sadly). It warms my heart to encounter others.

Somewhat related to topic: Did you know it still has a tiny multiplayer community on Gameranger? The singleplayer will always be the reason to play it, but the occasional multi game can be fun. Never mind that I'm really terrible and always lose. :)
 

Wintermoot

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I agree and I,m pretty sure nobody would complain (except me,you and a few others) if they would say "fuck it" to the singleplayer I seriously hope that they are going to fix this in the future
 

Theron Julius

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*sigh* Why is Halo the paragon of no singleplayer? I've played Halo all my life and I can still can enjoy the campaign. Even if Halo's story wasn't strong it was at least very fun. Hell I could replay Assault on the control room a hundred times and not get bored. Personally I blame Call of Duty for putting so much value on multiplayer. Just look at MW2. It's wildly popular yet has a shitty story. At least Halo puts an effort into making a good story.
 

smithy_2045

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Multiplayer games are more fun. No single player game will ever match the enjoyment I've had from playing Super Smash Bros Melee, for example.
 

deathbydeath

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Aurora Firestorm said:
I hate to interrupt the contradicting going on, but telling the OP that he should appreciate certain games' narrative and depth is like telling a kid who hates vegetables that he should really be enjoying his broccoli because it's the Best Food Ever. Some people just don't like certain games, or don't think they're of much value. I would sooner read space opera than Shakespeare. He may be literarily important, but it doesn't mean I like his work, or this it's The Shiznit. You can't tell someone what their opinion should be.

That aside, I believe he does and doesn't have a point. If a game is released and was created specifically for multiplayer, bitching about multiplayer is silly. It's like taking Metal Gear and bitching about the crazy anti-war plot, or taking Homeworld and bitching about the 3d-RTS theme. It's the premise of the game. Take Team Fortress 2, which is a wonderful game that is entirely about multiplayer. Take out multiplayer, and nothing is there. But it's still a stellar game, and much distinguishing should be made between "I wish this had single-player" (totally out of line with what the devs wanted) and "I don't like this game" (your opinion, which is valid). Don't spend your time wishing a multiplayer game would lean single-player.

On the other hand, games that promise a single-player plot and then just tease with a tiny little wimpy campaign are annoying. If a game in a plot-heavy series somehow decides to punt single-player for multiplayer, I'm going to feel cheated, because it's not what I was led to believe would be my experience, and I bought the game for single-player.

tl;dr -- ask yourself, before you complain about a game, what did the devs really want to do here? Was their objective a multiplayer experience or single-player? Did they want to have an epic campaign, or lead you to believe they would, and then fail? Or not? Buy multiplayer games if you want to play multiplayer, and single-player if you want to play single-player.
I must admit, this post is the key to putting out the hugeass flame war that has started here
now everybody SHUT UP!!!!
 

Mikeyfell

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Aug 24, 2010
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Thyunda said:
Mikeyfell said:
also snip
I don't mean to be offensive, but have you no friends? There is nothing that compares to the major laughs to be had while playing online. I live in England, and I play often with a friend in Chicago. Me, him, my brother and his brother always play as a team, and we have the most fun ever. Singleplayer might be good for a quick runthrough, but the multiplayer is where the serious fun is. I could play a multiplayer game for years. The experience is something new everytime. Okay, sometimes it is just dicks yelling into the microphone, but there are some truly fun people on there.
With singleplayer, it's the same shit over and over again. But, if it counts for anything I can't read the same book more than once, or watch the same film repeatedly.
no offense taken [sub]and I don't have many friends... ok, I only have 1[/sub]
so you use the multyplayer as more of a chat room than playing for the sake of playing.
the actual game play takes a back seat to you hanging out with your friends. something like that?

but that's not my point.
It's not a problem that games like that exist
it's a problem that FPS (and other multyplayer focus games) are a monopoly

last console generation you could cross out all the FPS games and be left with a healthy game library
this gen you cross out all the FPS's and you have God of war rippoffs, Gears of War rippoffs and a few RPG's

all multyplayer means is the dev team doesn't have to do any work on the single player

all these main stream games play identically
sit behind cover
pop out
bang bang
sit behind cover
dodge a grenade
lather
repeat

then a game Like Bioshock comes around and seems to say
"Yes there is hope play a good game"
then Bioshock 2 comes along and shits on my hopes and dreams

but this turned in to a rant so I'll wrap it up

there are more than enough (far to many) multyplayer focused FPS games out there
and the singleplayer crowd has bugger all to choose from. just RPG's rippoffs and sequels

[HEADING=1]NEW IP'S!![/HEADING]
 

Seneschal

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Aurora Firestorm said:
Thanks, OhJohnNo. I'm a giant Homeworld fan. :) Glad to see another.

But I'd like to address this:

So, do you want art or do you want toys?

Because multiplayer is a toy. You PLAY with it. You play with other people, you spend time, you get some skill in it, and you have fun. It's like playing cards or board-games.

You're saying now that games such as TF2 CAN NEVER BE REAL ART. That the schtick of the game, the balance, the creativity involved in the team classes, all of that is just a bunch of trifles. You're being narrow-minded now. I don't even like multiplayer in most games and I think you're being overkill.

Multiplayer is not killing single-player. Really, it isn't. You did say something I thought worked -- they are fundamentally different art forms. This means that neither is encroaching on the other's territory. They're different aims, different objectives.
Of course it isn't killing single player, the two gaming types basically cater to two very different audiences that overlap only to some extent. But I see no reason not to sell them separately.

And no, I'm not taking away the artistry from TF2 - it has as much worth as a well-crafted toy, or a very interesting toy. But "toy-making" isn't considered a NARRATIVE art that conveys stories, ideas and emotions, while something like "film-making" is. I just don't think singleplayer and multiplayer have all that much in common.

I'm not personally interested in competitive shooter multiplayer. At all. But if I want to go through the campaign of CoD4, which is VERY well-designed and atmospheric, I have to pay full price. Not really fair.
 

Mikeyfell

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Ampersand said:
Never really got into mass effect, I started playing but then i just rewatched babyon 5.
Oh snap.
oh no you didin't

Bioware is the only company that can keep me coming back to a game
 
Jun 11, 2008
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ThePerfectionist said:
You say MAG is fine but then complain about CoD? I haven't played MW2 and never plan to but the CoD games have alway been about the multiplayer I don't remember anyone getting it for the singleplayer.
 

Matt_LRR

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Nov 30, 2009
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Mikeyfell said:
Matt_LRR said:
I'm thrilled you managed to breeze through them so quickly. I was of couse talking about production value, not length, but clearly your opinion is the only valid one.

-m
what the Modern Warfare games felt like was going to a movie and in the first 2 minutes there's a car chase and a big explosion then the credits roll
and the only thing left to do is throw your popcorn at the other people in the theater

and you didn't answer my question. Have you every played a game with out multyplayer in it?
I didn't answer the question because it was a stupid question

-m
 

AVATAR_RAGE

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Halo is a poor example of this, infact dispite all of it's faults it has a nice mix of multiplayer and single player gameplay. I love the fact you can play the story your own or with firends, either online or splitscreen.

Bungie have created a great multiplayer experiance, and put allot of work in both their multiplayer and singleplayer modes.

My point is it is not the case that developers are skimping out on single player for multiplayer. It's more likely that the story of the game is not the strong point, MW2 is a good example, with the single player campaign being short and predictable. However with the addition of a multiplayer they give people an excuse to buy the game and keep playing it.
 

AVATAR_RAGE

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Glademaster said:
ThePerfectionist said:
You say MAG is fine but then complain about CoD? I haven't played MW2 and never plan to but the CoD games have alway been about the multiplayer I don't remember anyone getting it for the singleplayer.
Not always the multiplayer never really kicked off until MW.

The 1st COD game I played was COD2, which I played for the single player (infact I don't even think it had a multiplayer)
 

McFox

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As what I'm understanding through some form of consensus is that multiplayer does in fact enhance replay-ability, interest, and many other things. Personally, "good" multiplayer does factor-in and influence whether a person may or may not purchase that game and enjoy it, its understandable. However, I do find that it does present some negative sides as well - unless, the game manages balance single/multiplayer respectably (very rarely though).

What it seems to me is that the main focus for mainstream video game developers is to enable people to connect in social groups and connect to some form of community. However, this focus does leave several aspecets of a video game behind. Both artistic and immersive dimensions of the game eventually diminishes to a point where "its just a game to play with friends" or "its just a game to get 'x' amounts of rewards and brag about it to other people online and to your friends". Moreover, this focus in multiplayer does lead developers to neglect its roots as a video game. Sure, video games are supposed to be fun, and essentially gameplay plays a large role in its successfullness, but sometimes it just feels like "another game". What really makes games different and memorable is the feelings we get when we truly feel immersed into another reality; immersed into something that pulls on our creative psyche.

Take, for example, Mass Effect. Mass Effect conveys a very detailed and creative universe that makes us (or some) want to believe that it was true. We become engaged to the many conflicts within the universe and begin to realize that we are truly apart of the game. Maybe I'm overexaggerating some apects of it; but understandibly, it's a lot more immersive than many "other" games. The story of the game or the universe of the game can ulimately generate more interest into that game.

What really irritates me, however, is the amounts of assumptions that many developers make. Quite often, it is insinuated that about 90% of the video game community are numb-skulled and can't read a book properly (this is untrue). It seems like the bad side of the gaming community is brought upon multiplayer-focused games, like for example: Call of Duty, Halo, and WoW. Yet, by no means should future video games be like this and become another part of the so-called-mainstreamed video game collection; it just doesn't present much evidence that video games will eventually evolve. More likely than so, it just stunts the growth of video games. Because of this, it creates the lack of interest into the perspective of story, plot, etc. Yeah sure, if you want to be engaged into story or plot, read a book. But why does that mean that video games can't be another source of plot development? Personally, video games have the potential to be far more immersive than a book, or even a movie; the interactions of an individual to virtual reality greatly enhances the immersiveness of the story development.

Finally, I find that game developers are running out of ideas to make a good game. Ultimately, they are just forced to focus on multiplayer and seem to tag along other successful games in hopes that people may play it. More specifically, and most importantly, is that video games aren't getting original anymore. It seems like that almost every game that is being realeased seems to be a copy of "this" and a copy of "that". When everyone starts to copy and take ideas from other games, this really leaves little to no room for expansion in actual "good" games. More than often we find many games that are WAY to alike. Honestly, is this what the gaming industry has become? Is it just the same game over and over again with just a different look and feel? Come on, really?

What I'm ultimately saying is this: multiplayer is fine, but it better not be the same game I played a couple weeks ago - and I better have a damn good game to play if my connection isn't working!.