I've started reading their stuff more since this whole thing has started, and it really calls into question the quality of stories we have here at the escapist. Ever notice how the last paragraph or so is just the authors opinion on the bit? Yeah, not that great.
I think that this debacle has shown quite a few issues, even small ones, with some of the people who cover games here. The news people just kept on with their little in article jokes, but this time directed at fans and made them feel angry. Moviebob essentially did his same kind of attack that he did against sexists and racists, only this time on a much smaller and more ambiguous issue (although his Game Overthinker piece was a little better, but in general I found what he's been saying to be incredibly insulting).
"The inability to convey intent is the definition of failed art." [http://calitreview.com/24673]
"The ending was so inexcusable, on so many levels, that I can't help but laugh at people's attempts to defend it by calling it art. As if art were not subject to ridicule and criticism." [http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/]
Well, I gotta say, you're going to be a fantastic addition to The Escapist. Hell, you're already far more productive than 70% of forum-goers (myself included).
I wish I had more to add to this discussion, but you really hit the nail on the head here. I wish Bioware, Yahtzee, those guys from IGN, all of them could read this. This is one of the primary issues here that has yet to be addressed by any game journalists or developers.
I know this is sarcastic, but I'm going to use it to segue into a different point
I don't think the call to change the ending is really that out there. I've done a little bit of fiction writing myself, and there are many times that I'm not sure I've written the right thing (given my skills, I probably have). But this works are in flux, all the time, and even feel incomplete when they're out the door and "done". I know some of the game developers are against an ending change, probably over fear of the same thing happening to them, but to defend it as the artists intentions is to say that they know that THIS is the ending that Bioware thought Mass Effect HAD to have. But do they really feel that way? I doubt it. I bet they feel divided over it too. George Lucas' problem was that he kept on trying to revise his work when fans already called it done, maybe Bioware's might become a complete unwillingness to change it when fans think it hasn't been finished to the standard that we think it can achieve.
Well, I gotta say, you're going to be a fantastic addition to The Escapist. Hell, you're already far more productive than 70% of forum-goers (myself included).
I wish I had more to add to this discussion, but you really hit the nail on the head here. I wish Bioware, Yahtzee, those guys from IGN, all of them could read this. This is one of the primary issues here that has yet to be addressed by any game journalists or developers.
Thanks to you, and everyone whose said things like this. I've been reading on here for awhile now, and I've only come on now because my views were already said by people more eloquent than I
There are many people who say the attacks against Bioware threaten gaming as an art form, all the while claiming that we as gamers should seek no validation from non-gamers. I don't think validation from non-gamers is necessarily all that important, but I think respect from within the gaming community in general IS. Because if game companies are going to just treat us like walking wallets, then why should we treat them as artists? And if game journalism doesn't watch out for consumers against the exploitations of the companies, why shouldn't we think that the two are in league together?
Hmmm. I think this needs to be framed and stuck on a wall somewhere. Perhaps at an office. At EA. And IGN.
Daystar Clarion said:
him over there said:
Daystar Clarion said:
anthony87 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
anthony87 said:
Perhaps it's just me but it seems that the ME3 ending situation has changed from people being unhappy with the ending to the people who are unhappy with the ending having to defend themselves from seemingly every bloody gaming publication on the internet.
How about a protest or something? we'll just all play Kirby superstar forever and treat each other with love and respect while dismissing all of them until they take us back.
This thread got a whole lot more on track and interesting while I was off beating Gold matches (cause I'm a boss like that). Keep it coming. One of the few intelligent and non-flametastic threads on this topics and we're on the 4th page. Who knew?
I've started reading their stuff more since this whole thing has started, and it really calls into question the quality of stories we have here at the escapist. Ever notice how the last paragraph or so is just the authors opinion on the bit? Yeah, not that great.
I think that this debacle has shown quite a few issues, even small ones, with some of the people who cover games here. The news people just kept on with their little in article jokes, but this time directed at fans and made them feel angry. Moviebob essentially did his same kind of attack that he did against sexists and racists, only this time on a much smaller and more ambiguous issue (although his Game Overthinker piece was a little better, but in general I found what he's been saying to be incredibly insulting).
...Instead of getting statements along the lines of "yes, the ending was bad for reasons X,Y, and Z" fans got called entitled and derided as immature children. Yes, some of them have acted like that but in characterizing the entire group as acting like that gaming journalism has gone too far. And if fans are getting disrespected by the mainstream media, gaming companies, AND gaming media, why shouldn't they be mad about that?
...Because if game companies are going to just treat us like walking wallets, then why should we treat them as artists? And if game journalism doesn't watch out for consumers against the exploitations of the companies, why shouldn't we think that the two are in league together?
I've started reading their stuff more since this whole thing has started, and it really calls into question the quality of stories we have here at the escapist. Ever notice how the last paragraph or so is just the authors opinion on the bit? Yeah, not that great.
I think that this debacle has shown quite a few issues, even small ones, with some of the people who cover games here. The news people just kept on with their little in article jokes, but this time directed at fans and made them feel angry. Moviebob essentially did his same kind of attack that he did against sexists and racists, only this time on a much smaller and more ambiguous issue (although his Game Overthinker piece was a little better, but in general I found what he's been saying to be incredibly insulting).
I say we liquefy him and use the genetic goop to create an enormous, genocidal AI so that his greatness may be preserved.
No, wait, hold on. That would be ridiculous.
But seriously, the OP has just about summed up my own feelings on the subject. The ending of the game may have pissed me off, but what's kept my anger from abating is the shocking behaviour of the industry journalists. You mean if you insult, deride and dismiss people they'll become insulting in return? No! Who would have thought?
I can understand why people are pissed off about the game's ending. Its not that its sad or that they are entitled ETC. Its that it comes completely out of left field. I personally don;t hate the reason for the Reapers, and from a machine perspective I actually sorta think it makes sense. It would have been a much different ending if there had been some lead up. Also, the star child of exposition; this was just bad story telling. Worst of all was the lack of closure that we were given for our squad mates ( I don't care what people say, Joker and Edi were not in the Normandy in the Relay, how could that happen Joker would never leave earth with Sheppard still there and EDI was helping me fight Reapers????)
See I don't think the reaper reasoning makes sense. Sovereign said every reaper is an independant nation, and was a legit AI. Yet along comes star child who says they are my solutions, that would make the reapers not true AI then at all, as they are commanded by a central unit. If you compare the series canon to that ending, none of it makes sense at all.
As for the Normandy running away? I theorise the reapers won, the world goes to shit and the Normandy runs the fuck away to plant Liara's time capsule on a world that is not civilised enough to earn the reaping. Therefore a future civilisation will find it and go "so thats what happened".
Or I can just wake up and realise that the indoctrination theory and every other theory is just bullshit and Bioware (or Hudson, penfing rumours) effed up majorly.
...Instead of getting statements along the lines of "yes, the ending was bad for reasons X,Y, and Z" fans got called entitled and derided as immature children. Yes, some of them have acted like that but in characterizing the entire group as acting like that gaming journalism has gone too far. And if fans are getting disrespected by the mainstream media, gaming companies, AND gaming media, why shouldn't they be mad about that?
...Because if game companies are going to just treat us like walking wallets, then why should we treat them as artists? And if game journalism doesn't watch out for consumers against the exploitations of the companies, why shouldn't we think that the two are in league together?
OP..... I...wow....that was one of the most intelligent and well meaning responses to this whole thing that kept a level of maturity I haven't seen on this site since this whole thing started.
You said everything perfectly. It's like Bioware knew we were going to pony up money anyway just to see the end of our adventure...but didn't respect us enough to not give us something unfinished and then ask for more money.
OP..... I...wow....that was one of the most intelligent and well meaning responses to this whole thing that kept a level of maturity I haven't seen on this site since this whole thing started.
You said everything perfectly. It's like Bioware knew we were going to pony up money anyway just to see the end of our adventure...but didn't respect us enough to not give us something unfinished and then ask for more money.
Ah the escapist, where one comes to make a reasoned argument, and gets Fappy making masturbation jokes
Games are supposed to be fun though, and so we should have fun no matter how much others try to suck it out of them. But I for one thinks a new age is coming!
People where expecting Art. They got Bullshit. When they call Bullshit, they're told that they're immature and shouldn't criticize Art.
I watched the whole shebang on youtube, because i will not install spyware on my System, at least not willingly. Actually, some of the Spyware i caught in the Past was far less malignent then "Origin". But whatever, i don't like Origin, so i don't buy the Game.
Since the Ending Controversy i wanted to know what the Fuss was about and watched the Stuff. I expected to see at least some Stuff like the Conversations with Legion. I would have like some more of that. The Geth see themselves as a philosophical Issue, their "Gods" disowned them. Instead we get the Reapers with the Explanation that they where created so that artificial Life wouldn't eventually take over and kill all the organics.
I figure that the Reapers are there to prevent a artificial Lifeform to dominate everything and that no other Lifeform ever gets the Chance of evolving. Or maybe i'm wrong, Mass effect wasn't all that clear on that. Why? Am i supposed to make up my own theory?
Go buy "Dear Esther". Interactive Storytelling on Steam. You make up your own theory to make Sense of it all. In that regard, "Dear Esther" beats "Mass Effect 3" by a long-shot. Mystery is better, Atmossphere to the Mystery is better, more possibilities to make sense of the Story and nothing that makes "no" Sense.
I don't believe that Bioware "caved" to Fan demand. They had the DLC planned well before the Release and are now busy making it.
Which is bad. "Ending sold separately" is something Bioware should not be rewarded for. I did not buy fallout 3 before it came out with all the DLC packaged because i heard about the ending before.
I will not go along with a business practice as displayed by Bioware here. So i will not buy any of their Product.
I have to chime in, I think it's pretty lame to see game critics lampooning gamers for criticizing a game- something they do regularly and with an attitude of 'if people don't talk about these things they won't get any better'- just because not EVERYONE handled it the right way.(Welcome to the internet) They felt the need to push back hard and defend the indefensible: a lousy ending that does not stand up to artistic or intellectual scrutiny, that is in fact entirely the opposite of what pre-release sources had said (yes, marketers are dishonest, but is it right for them to outright lie? Should they be defended for doing this?) and failed, not because it didn't live up to expectations,(you would not see this level of backlash if that was all it was) but because this is a high profile mainstream game and the ending is simply BAD BAD BAD.
If Bioware does or does not change their ending, that's their business. The critical community seems to be so damn worried they're going to be compromising their 'artistic vision' by doing this, but if anyone can honestly say in good conscience they made the ending the way it was in order to make any kind of artistic statement then I doubt people would be in such uproar. The fact that there is no official defense for this ending makes it even more damning. It's likely if they re-do the ending it won't just be to give the people what they want, but to put the ending in the team had intended in the first place. That's just conjecture on my part, but I think gamers deserve acknowledgement at least.
Yes, Shepard lost a lot of blood and took too many blows to the head to make reasonable decisions or dialog choices, yes he just killed 400 trillion aliens, everyone is fucked and they're going to be eating their dead until every species withers away, everyone you've known and loved is dead, Joker ran away to boff your love interest and the thing about synthetics killing humans to keep synthetics from killing humans makes sense to us. If this is honest-to-god what they intended to do with their ending, I have no complaints.
If they own up to what they did, and at least act like it's on purpose, I'd be happy. For the record, I'm not a giant Mass Effect fan, (played the first two a little) but I'm a big proponent of games as art, and I'm not about to keep quiet when that label is being used to defend the inexcusable.
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