Why is Disney treating Star Wars so differently from Marvel?

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

No live action series?

Too expensive, I imagine. Have you seen any of the Marvel TV series? Let's just say they spare a lot of expenses compared to the Marvel movies. It's harder to get away with that, with Star Wars.

TV CG has come quite some ways, one need only look at Agents of Shield. Just compare season 1 with season 4 and you can see how far the effects have come in the past 4 years. And the Netflix series, despite how they may appear, are just a peg below things like Game of Thrones in terms of budget. There are plenty of stories that could be made as a live action series set in Star Wars. I know that Disney doesn't have the balls to give us a series following the crew of a Star Destroyer, but shows like The Expanse and Battlestar showed us that the technology is there for a live action series following the crew of a ship.

Hell The Expanse works even more as an example that the technology is there because it only gets just above a million views per episode, yet it's one of the best looking shows on television. Having a series follow a rebel or republic fleet wouldn't be hard at all.

One note, the reason they cut off Ghost Rider in the middle of the new season of AoS is the special effects weren't cost effective for a TV show, so its not how much you can do with the effects, it still costs a truckload. Hence why the Netflix superheros are less FX intense, more street-level stories. They could do things practically, but I think also that Disney realizes that less is more with Star Wars, whereas Marvel is so prolific in content that they can get away with doing more.
I'm perfectly fine with less in the SW department, as much as I love it. I feel also comparing Marvel and Star Wars is kind of a poor comparison...

 

[Kae]

Really?

You want more?

For me a movie a year seems downright excessive, in fact this whole thing with serialized movies is getting pretty tiring real fast and I care for them less each year, hell I didn't even bother watching Rogue One, one every 2 years is acceptable I think.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7bmXywWus8

There you go. ;p

Stormtroopers dancing to YMCA. Of course it's YMCA. What else could it be but YMCA?

Not complaining btw, seeing that filled me with an intense amount of glee.

 

[Zontar]

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What I want is for there to be a live action TV series. Television is the place for quality storytelling now, and the movies so far have shown this to be true since the best of the currently released Disney Star Wars movies is one pretty much everyone is in agreement that it's just half the movie that's actually good.

I want a TV series damn it, and not a shitty cartoon that's aimed at kids so small it's legitimately hard to appreciate it if you're older then the target demographic.

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The thing is it could be done. As I've pointed out already shows like The Expanse have shown that science fiction with decent TV CG can be done with only a million viewers per episode and still be profitable. The idea that a Star Wars live action series wouldn't pull in at least three or four times that much is ludicrous. Sure it won't be the spectacle the movies are, and there will be people stupid enough to be surprised by that fact, but given how it's the only realistic way we're going to get a legitimately good Star Wars story now that the movies, comics and books have mandated mediocrity where I think there may be a legitimate rule against any story being above a 6/10, a television series offers an actual outlet for a good Star Wars story to be made.

If a book series most people who aren't science fiction fans can manage it, the second largest franchise of all time can do it.

 

[Kae]

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What I want is for there to be a live action TV series. Television is the place for quality storytelling now, and the movies so far have shown this to be true since the best of the currently released Disney Star Wars movies is one pretty much everyone is in agreement that it's just half the movie that's actually good.

I want a TV series damn it, and not a shitty cartoon that's aimed at kids so small it's legitimately hard to appreciate it if you're older then the target demographic.

And that is most depressing I assure you but surely the solution is to make better quality films with strong writing instead of making yet more media on what is already an oversaturated franchise.
Well that is my opinion anyway but then again I don't really want enough Star Wars, for me the Original Trilogy was fine and I love it even with its faults and episode VII was absolutely unnecessary and utter crap to me, sure the prequels were bad too but at least they were trying something new, nothing worse than stagnant shit.

 

[Zontar]

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What I want is for there to be a live action TV series. Television is the place for quality storytelling now, and the movies so far have shown this to be true since the best of the currently released Disney Star Wars movies is one pretty much everyone is in agreement that it's just half the movie that's actually good.

I want a TV series damn it, and not a shitty cartoon that's aimed at kids so small it's legitimately hard to appreciate it if you're older then the target demographic.

And that is most depressing I assure you but surely the solution is to make better quality films with strong writing instead of making yet more media on what is already an oversaturated franchise.
Well that is my opinion anyway but then again I don't really want enough Star Wars, for me the Original Trilogy was fine and I love it even with its faults and episode VII was absolutely unnecessary and utter crap to me, sure the prequels were bad too but at least they were trying something new, nothing worse than stagnant shit.

Say what you will about Lucas, but so long as it was profitable he let the writers go nuts. You can see the difference in how he operates compared to how Disney does by comparing Clone Wars to Rebels, which are made by the very same people yet the quality gap is so wide you could be forgiven for not thinking that was the case.

I mean for god sake, Episode 7 was pretty much guaranteed to make 2 billion no matter what the movie was jut by virtue of being the first Star Wars movie in a decade. They could have done anything with it, yet they made the most generic, least memorable movie with a story that makes as little sense as one of the prequel movies but with the writing being too middle of the road to be memorably bad and no plot point being big enough that anyone will really care by the time the next equally horribly named movie comes out.

I honestly don't understand how people could celebrate the 'return' of Star Wars when it never left us to begin with, and if anything Disney's been its death. Even Fox couldn't have screwed it up on the creative side more if they'd tried.

 

[Hawki]

Although, Rogue One would have been better without Vader, Leia, Red Leader, the cantina thugs, R2D2, C3PO and Tarkin. Hell, it would have been better without the Death Star, which is as important as any character. They would have had to come up with a story that actually goes somewhere.

I can't agree. Every character you listed up above bar Vader and Tarkin are cameos - cameos, by their nature, can't make or break a work of fiction, unless their presence is incongruent with established canon, and none of them are. Considering the story, Tarkin's presence makes sense, and Vader's moments are easily some of the best in the movie.

...bloody hell, did you just get me defending my third least favorite Star Wars film? 0_0

Stormtroopers dancing to YMCA. Of course it's YMCA. What else could it be but YMCA?

I dunno. Back in school, everyone kept singing "YMCA! Why are you gay?!" as if that was the most clever joke that teenagers could come up with.

Luckily I'm far more mature now, enough to have a kitty cat avatar talking with a monkey. ;p

since the best of the currently released Disney Star Wars movies is one pretty much everyone is in agreement that it's just half the movie that's actually good.

With 88% on RT...yeah, I don't buy that.

I don't like Rogue One that much, and like The Force Awakens only margainly more. But as popular as it is to bash the films, there's no hard evidence to suggest that I'm in the majority. With people I've talked to face to face about TFA, I've met a grand total of zero people who didn't enjoy it, and when I said I didn't, I only got stunned silence. There's also the box office to consider - not an indicator of quality, but a potential indicator of popularity.

And no, I'm not claiming I'm the arbiter of quality, only a minority in regards to general consensus. No-one should be afraid of expressing their opinion, but reality is reality. I've never made it a secret that Empire is my least favorite of the OT. I'm hardly going to pretend I'm not in the minority there.

If a book series most people who aren't science fiction fans can manage it, the second largest franchise of all time can do it.

"If a book series most people who aren't science fiction fans can manage it"...your grammar's off, and I don't know what you're saying. If you're saying that The Expanse novel series is enjoyed by people who don't usually enjoy sci-fi, that's the first I've heard of it. I can only comment personally that I don't like the books, that I read the first four, they got worse with each installment, and after book 4, I gave up. It's part of the reason why I haven't watched the show. Well, that, and I'd need to import it from the US to be able to watch it, so there's cost to consider.

Also, what's the biggest franchise of all time?

I honestly don't understand how people could celebrate the 'return' of Star Wars when it never left us to begin with,

For many, it would have left with Revenge of the Sith. For people who don't like the prequels, it ended with Return of the Jedi. Star Wars technically never left, but that claim only holds true if you're including EU works.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

To put it in an analogy: if producing Marvel movies is the day in day out everyday work that puts food on the table for Disney, the Star Wars movies are the big bonus at the end of the year. When Disney's already drowning in money from Marvel properties and their thousand zillion incarnations, plopping out one Star Wars movie that's bound to break records no matter what it is is basically easy work, since it's only one movie, not a sprawling mega-franchise with several movies and tv shows in production at one. Not to mention the popularity conflict: if they started to branch Star Wars out as much as they did Marvel, they'd practically be putting themselves in competition... with themselves. There's only so many TV shows and movies rabid audiences can consume at once. Let's say this spring Netflix put out not only the new season of Daredevil, but also a new Star Wars spinoff show with an equal runtime. People (well, people with lives anyway) don't really have time to watch two Disney shows in addition to everything else they do, plus there's all those movies, so the ratings of both suffer.

I assume it's for that reason: when you have a film franchise that's guaranteed to make you a billion bucks no matter what, why bother trying to expand it any more than you have to, when you've already expanded another, comics-based franchise that's raked in billions of dollars and covers every platform in existence?

 

[pookie101]

there is the other issue.. you will VERY quickly burn out fans. a lot of fans straight up dont have the time or energy to sit through half a dozen tv shows and oodles of movies

 

[baddude1337]

I too would like to see a live action Star Wars series. I remember Lucas trying to get one off the ground years back, but never went anywhere. It was going to be set in between 3 and 4, so pretty similar to Rebels I guess, but likely not so kid friendly. Not really sure when I would want it to be set, perhaps between 6 and 7? Somebody above mentioned just following a ship crew. Following an Imperial Star Destroyer would be a great set up for a Sci-Fi show, IMO.

Off-topic, but I'm still kind of bummed they sold all game rights to EA, means we likely won't get a good or original Star Wars game for a long time. Say what you will about the Lucasarts days of Star Wars games, at least we got a variety of genres (Jedi Knight, Republic Commando, X-Wing, Empire At War, Pod Racer, KOTOR...) It seems all we will get from EA is more full priced MP only games, IAP laden mobile games, and watered down RPG's from Bioware.

 

[Zontar]

here's also the box office to consider - not an indicator of quality, but a potential indicator of popularity.

TFA was guaranteed to make 2 billion regardless of quality due to everything else that was going on, namely the fact that due to the state of the global market. It being made intentionally middle of the road in terms of quality and so forgettable most people will have to rewatch it before watching Episode 8 to remember what's going on has nothing to do with it succeeding, and it frankly stands testament to the fact that either Abrams is a mediocre film maker, or he intentionally makes bland movies.

Either way he's a hack.

No-one should be afraid of expressing their opinion, but reality is reality. I've never made it a secret that Empire is my least favorite of the OT. I'm hardly going to pretend I'm not in the minority there.

Not enjoying a movie and thinking it's bad are two very different things. I enjoy quite a few bad movies and dislike quite a few good ones.

TFA just happens to be a case of a bad movie I can't enjoy.

"If a book series most people who aren't science fiction fans can manage it"...your grammar's off, and I don't know what you're saying. If you're saying that The Expanse novel series is enjoyed by people who don't usually enjoy sci-fi, that's the first I've heard of it. I can only comment personally that I don't like the books, that I read the first four, they got worse with each installment, and after book 4, I gave up. It's part of the reason why I haven't watched the show. Well, that, and I'd need to import it from the US to be able to watch it, so there's cost to consider.

What I was trying to say was that The Expanse is only limited to science fiction fans in terms of its readership and was pretty much unknown outside of that sphere, yet the series with only just above a million people watching per episode, pretty low for a prime time series, managed to get a second season.

And it's actually even more impressive, since looking at the numbers it's actually only the first episode which broke the million mark, with the 13 currently broadcast episodes from both seasons averaging 694,000 views per episode. Which makes it pretty clear that TV CG is now dirt cheap and that outside of HBO I'd be surprised if anything less then 95% of television series that get cancelled are due to Opportunity Cost instead of it not being profitable.

Also, what's the biggest franchise of all time?

In terms of revenue, the MCU.

For many, it would have left with Revenge of the Sith. For people who don't like the prequels, it ended with Return of the Jedi. Star Wars technically never left, but that claim only holds true if you're including EU works.

I feel sorry for those who see it as having ended with Return of the Jedi. 30 years is a long time. But then it was just marketing that pushed the line that Star Wars was back to begin with. It never stopped being a dominant force in pop culture even if no movies had been released in years.

 

[WolfThomas]

Genre wise Marvel is broader. While many of there films are formulaic they are generally different in setting. Winter Solider compared to Guardians of the Galaxy for example. Iron Man compared to Thor. Pumping out two a year to critics might seem like oversaturation but the public generally eats them up for consistently profitable returns.

Stars Wars on the other hand is a definite big money earner. But two a year might over saturate the market (even though Rogue One and Force Awakens are sort of different).

TV wise the Marvel Genre is even more variable. All of the Defenders series have different tones. They are different in contrast to Agents of SHIELD, which was different to underrated Peggy Carter series. I'm sure Cloak and Dagger, Runaways etc will be different too.

 

[Saelune]

The MCU is rebooting 70+ years of Comics. Star Wars is continuing a story that started in the 70's took a break until the 90's, and thus ended a much shorter break since then.

 

[Hawki]

TFA was guaranteed to make 2 billion regardless of quality due to everything else that was going on, namely the fact that due to the state of the global market.

Debatable. Word of mouth can easily sink a blockbuster and/or critical backlash.

and so forgettable most people will have to rewatch it before watching Episode 8 to remember what's going on

I'd be genuinely surprised if that's the case.

Either way he's a hack.

Disagree. Abrams might be profilic enough to meet the definition of a hack if you count his work as a producer, but at least in terms of output, I've found it solid. Confining it to movies he's directed, I can count two good (Star Trek, Into Darkness), and one average (Force Awakens). Expanding it to his work as a writer and/or producer, I can add one bad (Armageddon), two good (Rogue Nation, 10 Cloverfield Lane), and one average (Star Trek Beyond). I've also seen some of Mission: Impossible III, but not enough to give it a fair assessment.

So, assessments would vary, but by my own, Abrams has been involved in a total of one bad film, two average films, and four good films. I'd say that's a solid record.

Not enjoying a movie and thinking it's bad are two very different things. I enjoy quite a few bad movies and dislike quite a few good ones.

TFA just happens to be a case of a bad movie I can't enjoy.

There are indeed similar bad movies I like and maybe vice versa, but I can't list TFA or even Rogue One among them. TFA is an average movie that's a net positive for me. Rogue One is a movie that's a net average where I only enjoy the last third. But the only genuinely bad Star Wars movie I've seen would be The Clone Wars.

In terms of revenue, the MCU.

Well, that's depressing.

 

[Mechamorph]

I believe Marvel simply has a deeper well of characters to use and a greater variety of genres it can play off. The MU is a fully fleshed out world with new content every month in the form of comic books for the greater part of a century. By contrast, Disney jettisoned the Star Wars EU so its just the movies and the animated spin offs like Clone Wars and Rebels. The main live action actors cannot play the roles of their younger selves (RIP Carrie Fisher) so they probably need some time to establish new people as these iconic characters. Rogue One was an experiment, to see if a movie featuring none of the old cast could make it at the box office. The Han Solo movie is another, to see if audiences are receptive to someone other than Harrison Ford playing the roguish smuggler.

It also helps that the MCU is still relatively young, adding new characters lacks the baggage of having to fill some other actor's shoes. The TV series also has a blank cheque to define roles in the MCU without worrying too much a more restrictive canon. The Star Wars canon is basically centered around a war that has blown cold and hot for decades after all.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Marvel is significantly more expansive than Star Wars. Tons of characters, that allow the exploration of many different stories, settings and themes with minimal overlap required.

Star Wars is comparatively very brittle and limited in scope. All apologies to EU fans, but for the overwhelming majority of people Star Wars doesn't really exist outside of the 6 films, and a healthy portion of the fanbase divorced themselves from the latter three for reasons which should be self-evident. Star Wars is the Jedi, the Skywalkers, the very limited story of the rebellion against the Empire.

If Disney wants to cultivate a more expansive brand, they need to do some groundwork first. The original EU was littered with a lot of fanfic quality chaff and was a sprawling mess. They clearly prefer something a little more curated and orderly.

I wouldn't be surprised if they start expanding the properties once their first tentpole trilogy/reboot is finished.

 

[Zontar]

I wouldn't be surprised if they start expanding the properties once their first tentpole trilogy/reboot is finished.

Here's hoping the fall of the empire gets a series at that point following the attempt by Thrawn to reunite the warlords before failing after years of winning.

Sure it would contradict the books and comics, but they already contradict themselves and having a show about Thrawn remaking the empire that ends with the battle of Jakku seeing his defeat at the 11th hour would make up for TFA being what it is and the next two likely following in similar quality.

Because as it stands now the best villain the franchise ever had has been criminally underutilised. Oh well, at least he, his signature ship type and his maneuver is canon, even if Clone Wars retconned it as not being his own.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

Honestly, I kinda respect them for not oversaturating the market with Star Wars movies like they do with Marvel movies. Sure, they make two Marvel movies a year but, let's be honest here, they've all been more or less the same since Iron Man.Super Heroes! Funny one liners! Quirky characters! Mediocre villain! Internal conflict among superheroes! Wisecracks people can make funny gifs on Tumblr of!

Star Wars on the other hand... well, not enough of them yet to judge them but so far they're pretty different. I thought Rogue One was somewhere on the lower end of mediocre but one thing I can't accuse it of is not trying to be different. It was a very different movie from Force Awakens in terms of tone, visuals and story. Which is why, despite thinking it wasn't very good I am still kinda happy it exists. Makes me hope that Star Wars isn't gonna be completely marvelized by Disney.