Why is sex and gaming so far apart?

[meisnewbie]

Blah blah blah VISUAL NOVELS blah blah blah VERY GOOD STARTING POINT IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT MATURE THEMES AND GAME DESIGN.

 

[090907]

Because you can't wank and play at the same time.

What? Why not?

Well, maybe one can do that, I, however didn't succeed.

Maybe employ a "helper"?

 

[Polarity27]

[quote="Spirultima" post="9.98685.1538703For the last time, im saying in a sense of a madman, you're in a wasteland, no laws, no safe haven for miles, murder is everywhere, no where to run from danger, it "COULD" drive you mad, and i was getting into the mind set of a evil, insane person, and raiders are everywhere, etc. understand what i mean now?[/quote]

Yes, I understand completely. You have a misogynistic fantasy and you want to "get into the mind of a madman" so you don't have to take responsibility for wanting to RAPE IN A VIDEO GAME. The hell is the matter with you?

As for graphic sex in video games in general, two words for you: Uncanny Valley. At the present state of graphics, that's creepy.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Curves are sexy.

Polygons are angular.

Go watch a porno.

 

[Inverse Skies]

Meh, one of the two aforementioned activities is highly overrated, especially after you've been doing it for a while.

Guess which one I'm talking about.

 

[Spirultima]

AND WHAT IS IT WITH YOU PEOPLE!!? i bring up a valid point and suddenly IM the horney bugger? I knew the subject was taboo, but jesus christ, people use logic, don't think about yourself playing the game, put yourself in the mindset, its how you can figure people out, think like they do.

Why would you want to figure out the mind of a criminally insane rapist? They're mad dogs. Put 'em down and move on.

Well you can't stop the, its something that develops over time, so why not get into to predict the method, and target.

 

[mike1921]

Rape wouldn't work because who is sick enough to want to rape something? It's very very very wrong.

Morals are irrelevant when talking about wants.

I see your point of view, but obviously i worded what i was saying badly, and hentai games that i hear about is just sex, so it doesn't really class in the category I'm on about.

I don't mean large, indepth, graphic detailing (mini games either) on the sex scenes, im just on about the choice, like, say i went out tomorrow, went to a bar, and picked up a girl/guy who was asking for it(the story is so far from what would happen, its becoming a fairy tale) i would have the choice to, or not to (in reality i would just come home and play on Endwars or something) and games talk about being "free choice" so why not add such things?

And England are no better, i just want a game where you really can do something YOU want and such.

You're problem is that you're hamstrung by the fact that while there are choices you can make, it's impossible to have EVERYTHING be available without having the game be stupidly large, and even then the players would NEVER find everything. The more choice you have the larger the game has to be by geometic scaling.

The devs cut out sex from the sandboxes because A) it's a hot topic that might get them in such hot water that they couldn't recover as a company from the legal fallout B)because they might catch the dreaded AO rating which would kill the game faster than if you'd said it contains 3 types of smallpox C) it's REALLY hard to have sex in a game that's not incredibly shallow.

Wouldn't an extremely large game for an RPG be a good thing? I thought the bigger those games got the better. Also, while that is impossible we should try to anyway so we get as much as we could.
A:That's not why the OPs idea is bad, that's why it wont work at them oment
B: same as A
C:true.

GTA ...this is ok but rape in games is a no no, just like killing children in games, abhorrent crimes should not be depicted in any means.

Why the fuck not?

why the fuck not?
because games arent meant to be a realistic simulation of what life would be like
they're MEANT to be fun

sex (and rape as you said) is not fun in games, it may be erotic (if you're into that sort of thing, im really not) but just go on deviantart or something

i honestly dont want to have a game that im too embarrassed to play in front of my parents/siblings/friends/self

and crimes like child killing shouldnt be shown because, again, it adds nothing to gameplay and is just weird
just like how they shouldnt show children having sex/being raped either
- some things just shouldnt be shown, at the most referenced

I know they're meant to be fun, the fun in RPGS are in their openness to do whatever you want.

Hypothtetically, if I were to do it for that reason, deviantart wouldn't be an option because still images like that bore me.

Than don't be a rapist.

It's fun to let your anger on annoying little kids out.

THere is nothing that absolutely shouldn't be shown.

 

[Grimm91]

This is bad because it is unmoral and to be frank, sick. I have no idea what the hell you dream of in your fantasies but this is utterly disgusting. Yes, humans are perverse, anyone who has been in a war zone or the like knows what despite humans do. But the fact that you want theses horrors in the realm of gaming is quite disturbing.

 

[Spirultima]

I do try and make my own, but i might as well rub salt into my eyes, it more fun then playing it. But difference is, im not payed to make them, and i don't get paid by people to play it either.

AND WHAT IS IT WITH YOU PEOPLE!!? i bring up a valid point and suddenly IM the horney bugger? I knew the subject was taboo, but jesus christ, people use logic, don't think about yourself playing the game, put yourself in the mindset, its how you can figure people out, think like they do.

But you're suggesting rape! We haven't even gotten off the "Show Sex in a mature fashion" boat yet and you want to be able to rape someone mid-combat just like that?

Before games can get anywhere near being able to let the player actively play in a sex minigame, they have to show that sex isn't taboo and that if two characters love each other very much that they show it through love. Until that happens, then you can make a game where rape is an option, though I'd assume it'd be slapped with an AO rating so hard and fast that you'd think someone is fornicating.

....wait, that came out wrong...

It was an example for the 19th time, I'm saying in a game (usually), the character doesn't act human at all (like Prince of Persia, that characterised the Prince very well) and I'm quite logical, so I'm wondering "why doesn't he incite human emotions?" so i used that as an example

 

[AdmiralWolverineLightningbolt]

Rape wouldn't work because who is sick enough to want to rape something? It's very very very wrong.

Morals are irrelevant when talking about wants.

I see your point of view, but obviously i worded what i was saying badly, and hentai games that i hear about is just sex, so it doesn't really class in the category I'm on about.

I don't mean large, indepth, graphic detailing (mini games either) on the sex scenes, im just on about the choice, like, say i went out tomorrow, went to a bar, and picked up a girl/guy who was asking for it(the story is so far from what would happen, its becoming a fairy tale) i would have the choice to, or not to (in reality i would just come home and play on Endwars or something) and games talk about being "free choice" so why not add such things?

And England are no better, i just want a game where you really can do something YOU want and such.

You're problem is that you're hamstrung by the fact that while there are choices you can make, it's impossible to have EVERYTHING be available without having the game be stupidly large, and even then the players would NEVER find everything. The more choice you have the larger the game has to be by geometic scaling.

The devs cut out sex from the sandboxes because A) it's a hot topic that might get them in such hot water that they couldn't recover as a company from the legal fallout B)because they might catch the dreaded AO rating which would kill the game faster than if you'd said it contains 3 types of smallpox C) it's REALLY hard to have sex in a game that's not incredibly shallow.

Wouldn't an extremely large game for an RPG be a good thing? I thought the bigger those games got the better. Also, while that is impossible we should try to anyway so we get as much as we could.
A:That's not why the OPs idea is bad, that's why it wont work at them oment
B: same as A
C:true.

GTA ...this is ok but rape in games is a no no, just like killing children in games, abhorrent crimes should not be depicted in any means.

Why the fuck not?

why the fuck not?
because games arent meant to be a realistic simulation of what life would be like
they're MEANT to be fun

sex (and rape as you said) is not fun in games, it may be erotic (if you're into that sort of thing, im really not) but just go on deviantart or something

i honestly dont want to have a game that im too embarrassed to play in front of my parents/siblings/friends/self

and crimes like child killing shouldnt be shown because, again, it adds nothing to gameplay and is just weird
just like how they shouldnt show children having sex/being raped either
- some things just shouldnt be shown, at the most referenced

I know they're meant to be fun, the fun in RPGS are in their openness to do whatever you want.

Hypothtetically, if I were to do it for that reason, deviantart wouldn't be an option because still images like that bore me.

Than don't be a rapist.

It's fun to let your anger on annoying little kids out.

THere is nothing that absolutely shouldn't be shown.

trust me, some things REALLY shouldnt be shown, for instance, a game should NEVER show a 5 yr old boy being raped by a 60 yr old man - it's just wrong
- as is rape

seriously, you should go see a shrink/get laid

 

[Meta Like That]

AND WHAT IS IT WITH YOU PEOPLE!!? i bring up a valid point and suddenly IM the horney bugger? I knew the subject was taboo, but jesus christ, people use logic, don't think about yourself playing the game, put yourself in the mindset, its how you can figure people out, think like they do.

Why would you want to figure out the mind of a criminally insane rapist? They're mad dogs. Put 'em down and move on.

Well you can't stop the, its something that develops over time, so why not get into to predict the method, and target.

You're not gonna get any of that from a mainstream video game, if that's what you're asking for. As Jumplion said, it'll be an AO or hard M rating at best. You're better off taking criminal psychology courses or reading about serial killers. Real life is more fucked up and interesting than you know.

 

[Spirultima]

For the last time, im saying in a sense of a madman, you're in a wasteland, no laws, no safe haven for miles, murder is everywhere, no where to run from danger, it "COULD" drive you mad, and i was getting into the mind set of a evil, insane person, and raiders are everywhere, etc. understand what i mean now?

Okay, I'll grant you that scenario, but I fail to see how that mindset applies. I've played FO3 and I think you would be hard pressed to find yourself in a situation where you would want to intentionally run into a swarm of Raiders on the off chance that one of them has a vagina to rape. Evil and crazy, sure, but you'd have to be stupid as well to go on the offensive with genuinely insane and evil, relatively well-armed nomads. If anything, I would think an easier route would be to sneak into a female PC's house/shack at night; but that kind of negates your "no laws, no safe haven" justification rap.
Basically, I'm trying to say I think I understand what you're trying to say, but it comes off like some fantasy fulfillment. I'm all for having more sex in games, but I doubt you'll have your wish granted peddling rape. I think it's amusing you used FO3 as an example; Fallout 2 had sex in it, but that was Black Isle, I don't think Bethesda plays that way.

I'll give it you that you are trying to understand why im asking these questions, and so here is my reply, in the Fallout 3 example i wasn't trying to make it seem like the intention of a game is for the sex, and i was trying to say, that as your trying to find supplies you stumble into a raider's camp and as a madman your logic is skewed, you think "hunger... they may have food!" he tryes to scout around to see anything useful "yes, food, 3 people, easy targets" he snipes one through the eye, the then shoots the girl's handgun out of her hand then shoots in the leg, before shooting the last girl in the forehead. "MY catch".

im thinking primitive thoughts when i characterise people like that, thats why "zombies" would try eating, hunting, grouping and shagging, enivitable because they go from prime instincs. understand better?

 

[Calax]

I'll give it you that you are trying to understand why im asking these questions, and so here is my reply, in the Fallout 3 example i wasn't trying to make it seem like the intention of a game is for the sex, and i was trying to say, that as your trying to find supplies you stumble into a raider's camp and as a madman your logic is skewed, you think "hunger... they may have food!" he tryes to scout around to see anything useful "yes, food, 3 people, easy targets" he snipes one through the eye, the then shoots the girl's handgun out of her hand then shoots in the leg, before shooting the last girl in the forehead. "MY catch".

im thinking primitive thoughts when i characterise people like that, thats why "zombies" would try eating, hunting, grouping and shagging, enivitable because they go from prime instincs. understand better?

You're example wouldn't fit with the characters personality or circumstances. Humans will develop some sort of society no matter the circumstances because of what we are (social creatures). The only way we'd regress to the point where women would be raped and kept as a sort of treasure would be if the number of females to males was disproportionally skewed to the point where women, and thus sex with women, was rare. Then they'd be viewed more as property and for people to flaunt their wealth. but that scenario wouldn't happen unless there was specifically a disease that targeted women or something.

The character that you play in fallout hasn't regressed or anything culturally or biologically where the need to reproduce overrides everything else. He's grown up in a stable society that mirrors our own to the point where he views women as equals. The only way anything like that would happen is if somehow we devolved back into our caveman versions, or we had a biology/evolution that took place so rapidly that if we grew up in a desert our bodies would change so we didn't sense the heat and the heat didn't damage us so much just within our lifetime.

Our primitive drives are survival and breeding yes, but we've moved to far beyond the point that we'd think that breeding was the most important thing in the world (if we hadn't then nobody would go through life without kids, and women would literally be pregnant as much as possible to increase chances the children survive). Your scenario is unrealistic, except for your overall theme that Sex should be in video games.

Well considering DOA is around, not ALL games are avoiding being pornograhpic, and some games sexual interest seems rather out of place. And I mean, are you saying you want Link to make passionate love to Zelda after saving her, or what? It seems things have been decently fine in this, and focusing too much on sexual relations to the really physical part seems like it would be getting off-topic. Now if you want maybe as you mentioned orientation to see perhaps the hero and his male lover to passionatly express their love for eachother be in gaming, then that is something more on the topic of homosexuality in games as opposed to sexuality in general.

To a degree the sex in a game has to be aimed at the targetted audience. If they made a Zelda game that was aimed at 20 something intellectuals you'd probably find morality problems and relationship issues in it. Zelda itself is designed to be very black and white and simple (in terms of plot).

The biggest reason I can think of why people look at sex in video games and have an instant reaction of "No!" is because thus far it's been dealt with in such an immature manner. Usually sex is put in a game for a very shallow reason, and the characters don't have a relationship beyond "hide the pickle". Or if they do have the relationship it's so rushed that it seems stupid (how would you expect to have a meaningful relationship within a game's timespan if it progressed that fast?). Sure there are games that get around these here and there (indigo prophecy got around it by the characters already having relationships prior to the game's opening, but carla and lucas's relationship still came off as weird because she only knew him as a killer who'd been used as a tool, and the fact that he was pretty much undead by the time they slept together. Mass effect got around it rather well, but RPGs generally don't have a very set time scale).

Anyway, TL;DR version:

The example and reasoning that the OP posted is unrealistic, but the overall idea about sex and games is worth merit.

Games thus far have yet to explore human relationships to the point where sex would seem natural. At this point in time, games have dealt with sex immaturely, or with such ham handedness that it feels very very out of place or as a cheap marketing tool.

 

[Baelor]

Radio is corrupting our children.

Fast Forward

Comic Books are corrupting our children.

Fast Forward

Television is corrupting our children.

Fast Forward

Movies are corrupting our children.

Fast Forward

Video Games are corrupting our children.


You heard it here first, Holographic video images will corrupt our children.



American Society was founded by freaking idiots who thought commiting genocide on a local population of natives was just fine but a woman showing her ankle was going straight to hell. Are you really suprised we treat sex as the biggest demon?

 

[mike1921]

Rape wouldn't work because who is sick enough to want to rape something? It's very very very wrong.

Morals are irrelevant when talking about wants.

I see your point of view, but obviously i worded what i was saying badly, and hentai games that i hear about is just sex, so it doesn't really class in the category I'm on about.

I don't mean large, indepth, graphic detailing (mini games either) on the sex scenes, im just on about the choice, like, say i went out tomorrow, went to a bar, and picked up a girl/guy who was asking for it(the story is so far from what would happen, its becoming a fairy tale) i would have the choice to, or not to (in reality i would just come home and play on Endwars or something) and games talk about being "free choice" so why not add such things?

And England are no better, i just want a game where you really can do something YOU want and such.

You're problem is that you're hamstrung by the fact that while there are choices you can make, it's impossible to have EVERYTHING be available without having the game be stupidly large, and even then the players would NEVER find everything. The more choice you have the larger the game has to be by geometic scaling.

The devs cut out sex from the sandboxes because A) it's a hot topic that might get them in such hot water that they couldn't recover as a company from the legal fallout B)because they might catch the dreaded AO rating which would kill the game faster than if you'd said it contains 3 types of smallpox C) it's REALLY hard to have sex in a game that's not incredibly shallow.

Wouldn't an extremely large game for an RPG be a good thing? I thought the bigger those games got the better. Also, while that is impossible we should try to anyway so we get as much as we could.
A:That's not why the OPs idea is bad, that's why it wont work at them oment
B: same as A
C:true.

GTA ...this is ok but rape in games is a no no, just like killing children in games, abhorrent crimes should not be depicted in any means.

Why the fuck not?

why the fuck not?
because games arent meant to be a realistic simulation of what life would be like
they're MEANT to be fun

sex (and rape as you said) is not fun in games, it may be erotic (if you're into that sort of thing, im really not) but just go on deviantart or something

i honestly dont want to have a game that im too embarrassed to play in front of my parents/siblings/friends/self

and crimes like child killing shouldnt be shown because, again, it adds nothing to gameplay and is just weird
just like how they shouldnt show children having sex/being raped either
- some things just shouldnt be shown, at the most referenced

I know they're meant to be fun, the fun in RPGS are in their openness to do whatever you want.

Hypothtetically, if I were to do it for that reason, deviantart wouldn't be an option because still images like that bore me.

Than don't be a rapist.

It's fun to let your anger on annoying little kids out.

THere is nothing that absolutely shouldn't be shown.

trust me, some things REALLY shouldnt be shown, for instance, a game should NEVER show a 5 yr old boy being raped by a 60 yr old man - it's just wrong
- as is rape

seriously, you should go see a shrink/get laid

Something existing in fiction is never wrong. It is in real life for sure. But not a game.

Why? I don't want to see it. I just see no reason for anything in a videogame to be considered morally reprehensible.

 

[JuniperIsAPlant]

As far as the general question of why are sex and gaming so far apart, that's been answered plenty of times in this thread already: money.

Any game with hardcore sex scenes longer than five seconds (ie: mass effect) is going to get an AO rating, regardless of story elements, character development, or anything else that would make it relevant. An AO rating on a game more or less drops it off the face of the gaming planet, because while porn itself is a lucrative business, porn gaming is not. Said AO rated game will not sell nearly as well as the same game reworked to have an M rating.

With that said, when you throw things into the mix like rape and murdering children etc... it becomes a different monster entirely.

We're talking about an art form, one of interactive storytelling, or just pure entertainment value. Touchy subjects like that are still reserved for the Lifetime Movie Network style sob stories where the rapist/child murderer/whatever is hated by everyone and isn't placed in an even remotely decent light. Mowing down cops left and right was cool in the movies back when Blues Brothers came out, so naturally a "cop killing simulator" like GTA is relatively OK even for the most adamantly moral of our society. When you start throwing in things that no decent selling movie or book would even consider putting in a good light, you start alienating the mainstream audience which goes straight back to our earlier argument: money.

Don't get me wrong, morally devoid acts in games, movies, books and the like are not unheard of, just not favored. Unless you can magically change public opinion to be accepting of things like this, no one is going to make enough money off of it to justify the risk to their reputation (in a case like Bethesda) or the risk to their collective paycheck.

 

[Jumplion]

It was an example for the 19th time, I'm saying in a game (usually), the character doesn't act human at all (like Prince of Persia, that characterised the Prince very well) and I'm quite logical, so I'm wondering "why doesn't he incite human emotions?" so i used that as an example

But that's character development, it has nothing to do with having sex/raping someone. Sex may be a plot device, but it shouldn't be used right away just for the hell of it. And you create your own character in Fallout 3, you can't have too much character development when the player creates an avatar to fit their own style, so it was a pretty poor example.

Case in point, portray a character in a meaningful way (like the Prince in your example) and then we can talk about sex/rape/whatever.

 

[Old Man Neck]

Most games wouldn't make sense if sex was in them. Would you really have time fighting off zombie hoards or holding off an alien invasion. For role playing games, like Fallout 3, you can usually find mods if you really need it. On a side note, there is sex in the Fallout series, especially Fallout 2.